Why is prostitution illegal?

IIRC, Sweden has had quite a bit of success tackling prostitution by making selling sex legal, but buying it illegal.
 
Francesca R said:
I am not still not sure exactly what argument you were advancing there, I must admit

A sex transaction falls into the category of a "spontaneous bargain"--some kind of market will arise almost anywhere, including in a society with almost no government (there is doubtless plenty of prostitution business in Somalia). Unlike something like life-insurance, where transactions can't really exist without rule of law (specifically: legally binding contracts and rights which are credibly enforcable)

Prostitution could/would still benefit from protection from the state (the health and safety stuff that people have mentioned already). So that's one of the more robust arguments in favour of legalisation--bringing into the formal economy something that already exists in almost all informal ones.

Although that is not free, and has to be paid for by society, and mostly the burden would/should fall onto those in the prostitution sector (=those who benefit from the provision of public goods--health, safety etc) just as is the case in the rest of private industry. So those in legitimate prostitution face a higher tax burden, and other expenses, for example paying something towards regulation-required health screening, insurance whatever. It is for those reasons that some would choose to stay outside.
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Sorry for the confusion - I wasn't trying to advance a position (as others have done that far better than I), I was trying to point out that one of the arguments being used against legalising prostitution - that it won't help because there will always be illegal prostitutes anyway - is a bunk argument. The point was that we don't make things illegal just because a black market exists, so why should we refrain from making something legal just because a black market will exist?

In other words, I agree with you.
 
Francesca R said:
Pardon? What are you trying to say by posting a link to a site of Marxist ideas?
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OK, you may not realize that your claim that "Market economics is not about increasing anyone's ability to make choices, but maximising the available pool of choices for a given level of ability" isn't true - historically or logically.
You may actually believe that this is what rulers are thinking when they introduce the free market to countries so far left unscathed, I don't know. You seem to confuse the slogans of apologists for market economics with reality, which is the reason why I linked to an article that explains what it actually is:
http://www.ruthlesscriticism.com/What_is_Free_Market.htm
 
dann said:
No, you are right, it didn't! Did you even consider if my post intended to 'explain' such a thing before you accused it of not doing so?
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3831939#post3831939


Exactly! A wonderful accomplishment, the market economy, right?!



They can??! Then I think that I'd like to work as a ....
No, even you know that this is not how the labour market works, but if you need to have it explained to you, you can start here:
http://www.ruthlesscriticism.com/unemployment.htm
http://www.gegenstandpunkt.com/english/workandwealth/0-introduction.html
http://www.ruthlesscriticism.com/compwage.htm
http://www.ruthlesscriticism.com/Labor.htm



Definitely!



Once again: Please read and try to understand what I wrote in the post before you ask me to defend claims that you appear to think that I made:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3831939#post3831939
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Perhaps I misunderstood you.
Can you clarify:
1. Do you think people are coerced into prostitution because they have no other choice?
2. Do you think it should be legal or illegal to sell sex?
3. If illegal, how does removing that last choice help desperate people?
 
dann said:
OK, you may not realize that your claim that "Market economics is not about increasing anyone's ability to make choices, but maximising the available pool of choices for a given level of ability" isn't true - historically or logically.
You may actually believe that this is what rulers are thinking when they introduce the free market to countries so far left unscathed, I don't know. You seem to confuse the slogans of apologists for market economics with reality, which is the reason why I linked to an article that explains what it actually is:
Click to expand...
I understand that as "I believe that mainstream market economics is a conspiracy by the few to exploit the many that the many have not figured out--here is some of the fodder that fuels this belief".

That is getting too far off-topic for me to give consideration to. I hope you avail yourself of the Conspiracy Theories forum because your arguments will be well received there. Alas I do not frequent it :)
 
kerikiwi said:
Perhaps I misunderstood you.
Can you clarify:
1. Do you think people are coerced into prostitution because they have no other choice?
2. Do you think it should be legal or illegal to sell sex?
3. If illegal, how does removing that last choice help desperate people?
Click to expand...

Why do you ask me these questions??!
My post, which you still don't seem to understand, went like this:

dann said:
kerikiwi said:
The argument that prostitution should be illegal because some desperate women turn to it to support their addictions and/or children falls flat on its face when you consider that by closing even that avenue to such women, you are making them even more desperate.
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You are right! It is a very poor argument for making prostitution illegal, but it is still a good argument against prostitution as well as against ...

The analogy with kidnapping and forcing an individual into either cleaning cars or being raped also falls flat on its face. Kidnapping is illegal. Rape is illegal. The law already regards one as worse than the other.
Economic coercion applies to everyone in every job to varying degrees. I am coerced into going out to work. I choose a different line of work from most other people. The operative word is 'choose'.
Click to expand...

... the economic coercion that forces this 'choice' on some poor people.

If a man or woman chooses to earn their money by selling sex, it should be nobody else's business.
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You mean: 'If a man or woman is economically coerced to earn their money by selling sex', don't you?!

And that is not a very good argument for the legalization of prostitution, but a very good one against economic coercion!!!

More arguments against the free market:
http://www.ruthlesscriticism.com/What_is_Free_Market.htm
http://www.ruthlesscriticism.com/poverty.htm
http://www.ruthlesscriticism.com/capitalindex.htm
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So I have a hard time figuring out what exactly gives rise to your questions.

But let me clarify anyway:

1. Don't ask me! Ask the "people"! Then consider if their answers are correct.
2. No, I don't! I think that people should not be economically (or otherwise) coerced to do so.
3. Has anybody claimed that? I am quite certain that I didn't!
But let's see what your question implies:
'Legal prostitution is a way of helping "despearate people"!'
Yeah, right!
Do you believe in Santa too?
 
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Francesca R said:
I understand that as "I believe that mainstream market economics is a conspiracy by the few to exploit the many that the many have not figured out--here is some of the fodder that fuels this belief".

That is getting too far off-topic for me to give consideration to. I hope you avail yourself of the Conspiracy Theories forum because your arguments will be well received there. Alas I do not frequent it :)
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I understand that as creating a strawman and then refusing "to give consideration to" it.
Alas, you appear to frequent neither common nor educated sense, so CT might be the right forum for you.
 
Why do you ask me these questions??!
My post, which you still don't seem to understand, went like this:
Click to expand...
So I have a hard time figuring out what exactly gives rise to your questions.

But let me clarify anyway:

1. Don't ask me! Ask the "people"! Then consider if their answers are correct.
2. No, I don't! I think that people should not be economically (or otherwise) coerced to do so.
3. Has anybody claimed that? I am quite certain that I didn't!
But let's see what your question implies:
'Legal prostitution is a way of helping "despearate people"!'
Yeah, right!
Do you believe in Santa too?
Click to expand...
I understand that as creating a strawman and then refusing "to give consideration to" it.
Alas, you appear to frequent neither common nor educated sense, so CT might be the right forum for you.
Click to expand...


Dann, not to derail the thread or to be mean or anything, but you ever answer a question straight out without meandering around, dodging the question by claiming that the person didn't understand you answer and posting links, then claiming that people aren't as smart as you are?

Sorry, Dann, I know we've butted heads before, and on this very issue, but it seems to me that you have never ever to answer any question put to you with a straight and clearly. It's the same pattern over and over.....

And why haven't you answered my post yet? Well, then again, you certainly did not answer anyone's post here. You've just blustered and told people that they are stupider than you are.

Sorry, I just feel that you are not contributing to the discussion at all.....
 
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dann said:
Why do you ask me these questions??!
My post, which you still don't seem to understand, went like this:



So I have a hard time figuring out what exactly gives rise to your questions.

But let me clarify anyway:

1. Don't ask me! Ask the "people"! Then consider if their answers are correct.
2. No, I don't! I think that people should not be economically (or otherwise) coerced to do so.
3. Has anybody claimed that? I am quite certain that I didn't!
But let's see what your question implies:
'Legal prostitution is a way of helping "despearate people"!'
Yeah, right!
Do you believe in Santa too?
Click to expand...
The questions arose because of various posts by various people which implied that prostitution occurs when desperate people have no other choices available.
I am somewhat bemused at your suggestion that I ask 'the people' what
your opinion is, but if you could put me in touch with these people who know your mind better than you do, I will give it a shot.
In answer to this question:
2. Do you think it should be legal or illegal to sell sex?
you gave an answer, but didn't make sense. Try again.
In answer to:
3. If illegal, how does removing that last choice help desperate people?
you gave an equally nonsensical reply. You will see, if you look closely, that #3 refers back to the answer to #2
No, my question did not imply that legal prostitution is a way of helping desperate people, but I see your point.
It definitely would be better to not punish people who are desperate.

And you say I didn't understand your post...
 
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kerikiwi said:
The questions arose because of various posts by various people which implied that prostitution occurs when desperate people have no other choices available.
I am somewhat bemused at your suggestion that I ask 'the people' what your opinion is, but if you could put me in touch with these people who know your mind better than you do, I will give it a shot.
Click to expand...
Your question was:
kerikiwi said:
Perhaps I misunderstood you.
Can you clarify:
1. Do you think people are coerced into prostitution because they have no other choice?
Click to expand...
My answer is that what I think about this is uninteresting. The prostitutes have been asked, surveys have been made, and an awful lot of prostitutes are in it for the basic necessities, not to support a luxurious lifestyle. I have quoted some of these surveys and linked to them in other threads.

In answer to this question:
2. Do you think it should be legal or illegal to sell sex?
you gave an answer, but didn't make sense. Try again.
Click to expand...

My answer was:
"No, I don't! I think that people should not be economically (or otherwise) coerced to do so.", which makes a lot of sense, so let me explain it to you:
The question of legality or illegality of prostitution does not solve the problem of poverty, i.e. the economical coercion, so, no, I don't thinkt that it should be legal or illegal to sell sex. Instead I think that people should not be economically (or otherwise) coerced to do so.

In answer to:
3. If illegal, how does removing that last choice help desperate people?
you gave an equally nonsensical reply. You will see, if you look closely, that #3 refers back to the answer to #2
No, my question did not imply that legal prostitution is a way of helping desperate people, but I see your point.
It definitely would be better to not punish people who are desperate.

And you say I didn't understand your post...
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It would be better to get rid of the economic coercion instead of considering if selling your body to strangers is a better or worse alternative to seeing your children starve. They are both bad, and considered as an argument it is probably the poorest excuse for the legality of prostitution.
In other words: Prostitution should be abolished by doing away with the circumstances that force poor people to consider this line of 'work'.
 
fagin said:
The answer to fallen women = marxism. Makes a change from religion anyway.
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The "fallen women" already know what forces them to 'fall'. Marxism is not a comfort to them, not even an ideal one like religion (see my sig line). However, the "illusory happiness" of religion is not enough for most of them, which is why so many resort to real drugs instead of the opium of the people to help them through their miserable way of earning a buck.
I find it hard to believe, but apparently most libertarians either never heard of unemployment or just did not understand the reality of it.
 
dann said:
Mobyseven: No, it shouldn't! Not that hard an answer . . .
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Dann, appearently it IS a hard answer.

You STILL haven't answered the question!!!!!

Re-read the post and your answer:

Dann: Should prostitution be legal or illegal? Not that hard a question.
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Mobyseven: No, it shouldn't! Not that hard an answer . . .
Click to expand...

Shouldn't what? Shouldn't be legal or shouldn't be illegal?

I have to admit, you're great at not answering a question with a straight answer. Are you sure you're not a politician? :D
 
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