AA77 FDR Data, Explained

[Turbofan]

"


In true conspiracy nut fashion, you pick and focus on one single oddity (of which there are many in any event) and pretend that it dismisses everything else.

My , my...strong words coming from GL's who overlook everything.

As a matter of fact, I'm not grasping onto on single oddity.

Did you conveniently forget the list of items I posted several pages ago
that nobody touched on?

Remember Mineta, the E4-B, the FDR data, etc.?

Then you have a bunch of people throwing out theories of how buffers
might function if the leaves on the trees blow east

Let me assert that any info magically forgotten in a buffer is read out
with time stamp infomation on the next scan. It is IMPOSSIBLE for OLD
RAD ALT data to be updated with current parameters on the next poll.

IMPOSSIBLE. You CANNOT and WILL NOT ever see old data stuffed into
CPM where current data and time stamps are stored.

Waiting for those clock / timing diagrams...

 

[Reheat]

Remember Mineta, the E4-B, the FDR data, etc.?

Oh, the old Mineta canard. What a surprise! How many time do you expect this to be addressed. A dozen times, two dozen. Do you need someone to personally whisper in your ear that "his time line was in error"?

Tell you what. If Mineta's time line was NOT in error and the conversation he overheard was incriminating why doesn't he support your delusional BS? Oh, I guess you're smarter. Is that it?

The E4-B is a communications platform which was at Andrews on the day in question. What do you find strange or mysterious about an airplane flying? Airplanes do fly, you know.

Oh, and lastly, why is it more than you want to discuss about the FDR? Do you have new and revelatory information or is it a repeat of the crap you've been slinging all along?

 

[celestrin]

It's hard dealing with reality, when you're in a rabbit hole, isn't it. You're so far gone you can't even look at other possibilities. I know, I used to believe in the Bermuda triangle...

Magnetic headings: Tell me Celestrin. If the NTSB mixed up the headings,
then how is the plane taking off from the runway, and finding the Pentagon?
Did the headings magically flip mid animation?

This clearly demonstrates that you didn't even look at my link. If you did, you'd have to notice that the mag/true heading mixup, I was talking about, wasn't about the Pentagon at all. Unless you're implying they had moved it to Little Rock or something. It's hard to keep up with PfffT nontheories these days...

The link provides just a plain demonstration that NTSB animations are not infallible, which totally and irrefutably denies the fantasies you might have about them. I actually thought you'd like the link. After all, it does feature a movie. Two even, if you click the other link.

You've got nothing to say about PfffT's RADALT analysis? The analysis which proves that the plane couldn't had been just 500ms away from the Pentagon? Those are your heroes, your pals, your methods, your analysis! What's wrong with it? Why don't you believe it? It comes from your own people!

 

[Turbofan]

Tell me, Turbo, how would it be possible for an automated software animation generator to get the true and magnetic headings mixed up? How could such an automated import mixup rudder data? Yet this is what happened here.

Nice try. You were making a parallel about data from another scenario
and trying to relate it.

You see no such error for heading mix up in the Pentagon animation.
That's what I'm confirming for you.

Any errors that were found in the animation have been corrected by
PFT and their analysts. IE: Error in pressure altitude and the correct
decoding of RAD ALT . (among others).

I suggest you all get more up to speed with the research, and technology
used...because you're all failing quite badly.

Still waiting for those timing diagrams!

 

[celestrin]

Any errors that were found in the animation have been corrected by
PFT and their analysts. IE: Error in pressure altitude and the correct
decoding of RAD ALT . (among others).

So, you can finally present some numbers regarding press and rad altitudes? Excellent! I'm sure you'll have no trouble answering Anti-S' question about the plane's last position then! Out with it.

I suggest you all get more up to speed with the research, and technology
used...because you're all failing quite badly.

Really? Snowygrouch has changed his analysis? How so? According to his method of aligning FDR altitudes with ground elevation leaves the plane 4000+ feet away from the Pentagon. Are you trying to say this isn't so?

 

[Jonnyclueless]

My , my...strong words coming from GL's who overlook everything.

As a matter of fact, I'm not grasping onto on single oddity.

Did you conveniently forget the list of items I posted several pages ago
that nobody touched on?

Remember Mineta, the E4-B, the FDR data, etc.?

Then you have a bunch of people throwing out theories of how buffers
might function if the leaves on the trees blow east

Let me assert that any info magically forgotten in a buffer is read out
with time stamp infomation on the next scan. It is IMPOSSIBLE for OLD
RAD ALT data to be updated with current parameters on the next poll.

IMPOSSIBLE. You CANNOT and WILL NOT ever see old data stuffed into
CPM where current data and time stamps are stored.

Waiting for those clock / timing diagrams...

No, kiddo, we look at everything. We don't sit there and focus on an anomaly from the way the timing is supposed to work under ideal conditions and use it to dismiss all other evidence as you do.

Did you forget your list of items being addressed several pages ago? Probably because you forgot the list of items I posted a couple pages ago kiddo. Did ya forget the part where they showed you to be wrong? I geuss not. But that's the down side of living in your own fantasy where you put blinders on to everything else.

And it's pretty funny after mentioning those issues that have been addressed that you go right back to your single and only argument based on big assumptions that you cannot really prove. You're gonna have to do a lot more than roll your eyes if you want to be taken seriously kid.

The problem kid is that you are arguing theory and not taking into account real world use. Basically hearsay. And this is why all you can do is pick on this one area that you sort of kind of have some expertise in, though in the completely wrong field. hence your assumptions that in this case it should work the same way as it does on your computer networks, You can't present a whole theory because your nit picking doesn't cover anything else. You're just hoping that creating doubt in the research doesn't by real scientists will allow you to simply insert anything you want afterwords. you don't care that the only possibilities left as a result of your assertions are far more impossible than the ones you are claiming to be impossible

And tell us kid, if this is so damning, then why are you here on an internet forum instead of filing a lawsuit? Do you just not care enough to take action? You feel you have conclusive proof to a major crime and you don't feel up to taking any action? Why is that?

 

[beachnut]

Nice try. You were making a parallel about data from another scenario
and trying to relate it.

You see no such error for heading mix up in the Pentagon animation.
That's what I'm confirming for you.

Any errors that were found in the animation have been corrected by
PFT and their analysts. IE: Error in pressure altitude and the correct
decoding of RAD ALT . (among others).

I suggest you all get more up to speed with the research, and technology
used...because you're all failing quite badly.

Still waiting for those timing diagrams!

p4t did not correct anything. The altitude in the animation is a direct readout of the Pressure Altitude.

The NTSB did not decode the RADALT, they even list it as a thing they did not decode.

You lack of knowledge on this topic is massive, and your inability to see p4t are using you to make conclusions they will not make, because they are just selling DVD with false ideas. You believe them.

The animation is good for the aircraft, but the ground has to be added, the Pentagon was added and the orientation is off. The variation was reversed and the heading relative to the Pentagon is off 17 to 18 degree. I doubt you understand variation and how it plays, but the 70 degree heading on the animation is 61.2 degrees true track, and the line up to the Pentagon is off in the animation. P4t are using this error as some smoking gun and fail.

Sad the p4t use a mistake in an animation working copy as the basic for their north non-path. Did I say non-path? Yes, the p4t are too stupid to have a path they will stand by, or a theory to stand by. They are just letting you make up fantasies with inspiration from their false ideas. Like the 11.2 G error Balsamo made, he fails to make a rational idea out of anything he does. Look kind of bad for someone who falls for the failed ideas of p4t.

You may catch up after 28 years, you lack experience in flying, research, and investigation. It takes time to figure out all the fields you are messing up in such a short time. I have seen your work praised in the automotive field, it looks like your expertise there is not transferable to aircraft impact investigations and 9/11 in general.

Everyone is right. If you have so much evidence, you should take it to the authorities! But, Balsamo has nothing, he is selling DVD of false ideas, he is unable to take his evidence to the authorities because he has nothing. Plus in his paranoid world, the MIB would kill him if he revealed this information, yet he sells it freely for 15 bucks and is still alive and kicking; the FBI knows where he lives, the IRS knows were he lives.

You have no evidence of anything but how much knowledge you lack on a bunch of subjects. I thought you would learn more as you studied, but you missed the big stuff as you have posted more information of some of p4t junk than they have. I finally saw the 500 millisecond junk and see it means nothing. Each thing Balsamo brings up means nothing to prove 77 did not hit the Pentagon. At least Douglas, your hero, understands he has nothing to prove anything about 9/11. His false ideas and p4t false ideas add up to no theory, no paths, and no conclusion on Flight 77. p4t clearly explain they have no theory, how can you have one?

 

[Jonnyclueless]

But Beachnut, according to turbofan, someone just feedcs the data into a computer and all that stuff magically creates itself. And as he reminded me, Norman Mineta confirms that.

 

[pomeroo]

"Oh shucks...", "Tell me Turbo...", "Why Turbo..."

This thread and the theories presented are quite a joke. I have never
seen so much assumption and grasping in a debate! You guys are throwing
out 'hopes and dreams' looking to find some small insignificant, irrelevant
info to spin on the world!

Magnetic headings: Tell me Celestrin. If the NTSB mixed up the headings,
then how is the plane taking off from the runway, and finding the Pentagon?
Did the headings magically flip mid animation? Haha....carry on.

Anti. You have shown nothing other than a diagram and a basic data path.
Where are the timing charts? Why don't you post those instead of assuming?


I'll tell you another thing, the sensors don't selectively delay and update
old information while other info is current (like DME, pitch, accel, etc.).

Can you imagine what Anti is trying to push here? Old information, stored
2-4 seconds later even though other updates are happening 4 and 8 times
per second (current data).

RAD ALT is updated every second. If it's old info parked in a buffer, the
buffer only has capacity for one value before the next poll time. Sorry to
say, but the four seconds, or two seconds, or whatever you're theory
claims just does hold water.

The new info will over-write the buffer contents on the next update.

Post the timing diagrams for the FDR, or call it a day. Show process speeds,
timing for all bus, buffer and transfer. Until then you have nothing over the
THREE sources I've posted for sensor to CPM <= 500 ms!


Keep reaching, keep hoping to find something ...something to make you believe
your government is not corrupt.

Your errors have been explained to you in exhaustive detail. As a conspiracy liar, you are, of course, ineducable, but your insane fantasy remains just that. Many people observed Flight 77 crash into the Pentagon: NOBODY saw a "flyover." The remains of the passengers and crew were found inside the Pentagon and identified by DNA testing. Whatever distortions and falsehoods you recycle, your agenda-driven fantasy always fails. Reality defeats you.

 

[Turbofan]

Really? Snowygrouch has changed his analysis? How so? According to his method of aligning FDR altitudes with ground elevation leaves the plane 4000+ feet away from the Pentagon. Are you trying to say this isn't so?

Incorrect. I wrote Calum just a few days ago and he confirmed his presentation data.

Here is the reply once again in case you missed it earlier:

as far as my research went on this; the plane is about 1.5 >2 seconds away from the building at last position.
This is not particuarly surprising. All persons talking about having "8 seconds" or more missing are using the NAVLAT/LONG
positions which is via the inertial navigation system (basically using accelerometers to form a "relative positional map" based on a known
start point). These are NOT very accurate! An FDR expert in the UK informs me that you are lucky to get within a couple of miles
using the NAVLATLONG figures over a typical internal flight duration. These figures are NOT produced directly from GPS systems
(in this particular vintage of aircraft anyway).

3. "Based on the information extracted from the FDR file, do you believe
the aircraft was approximately 1600 feet from the Pentagon?"

I cannot remember off the top of my head, I will have to check this with the figures later this week.
But that figure sounds in the right "ballpark", thats just a guesstimate from memory! 1600 feet is about 530meters
and the plane was travelling about 240m/s, so very very roughly about 2 secs, which is -as I said- in the "ballpark".

You can also verify these data by writing Calum directly at: Calum42@gmail.com

 

[Turbofan]

p4t did not correct anything. The altitude in the animation is a direct readout of the Pressure Altitude.

That is correct, HOWEVER, the pressure altimeter was not set upon descent
and it CLEARLY seen in the video and corrected by Rob Balsamo.

The NTSB did not decode the RADALT, they even list it as a thing they did not decode.

That's right because it would show the world the COVER UP! PFT decoded
RAD. ALT, and there you have the exposed truth!

The animation is good for the aircraft, but the ground has to be added, the Pentagon was added and the orientation is off. The variation was reversed and the heading relative to the Pentagon is off 17 to 18 degree. I doubt you understand variation and how it plays, but the 70 degree heading on the animation is 61.2 degrees true track, and the line up to the Pentagon is off in the animation. P4t are using this error as some smoking gun and fail.

You are totally wrong about this. If you were right, the aircraft would roll
of the RUNWAY at the begining of the animation. There is no such error.
Your source is poor. Your facts are wrong. You are totally in the dark.

Study up.

 

[Turbofan]

Since Anti-Sophist has been away for a while, I thought I'd put the last nail
in Anti's THEORY.

Here's a link to the timing charts, timing explanations and such:

http://www.freeinfosociety.com/pdfs/technology/ARINC-429.pdf
ARINC Protocol Tutorial (1500-029)

Pay close attention to pages 2-6, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14, 20.

I'll continue to find more timing charts and operation specifics so that you
can stop believing the garbage about 4 second old data

You might want to start thinking up another theory to grasp at!

 

[Mr.Herbert]

You might want to start thinking up another theory to grasp at!

Where are the laughing dogs when you need them?

You,the clowns from CIT, and the idiots from PFFFT are a laughing stock. No one... i mean NO ONE takes you and the idiot theories you possess seriously.Even the vast majority of the truthers poke fun at your pathetic theories. You have failed to address the evidence that literally thousands are witness to. Yes thousands.

-I have yet to see any PFFT or CIT dolt explain the flight 77 passenger still strapped in their seat.

-The personal belongings that were retrieved.

-How literally thousands of pounds of airplane debris were scattered all over the Pentagon without anyone seeing them.

-How these bombs were planted in a construction zone of the Pentagon where literally HUNDREDS of civilian contractors were working every day. And created damage to make it look like a plane hit it.

-How the light poles were planted in the middle of rush hour without a soul seeing them.

-Why oh why the Government in all their perfection would choose an elderly cab driver as their shill.

-And this government that you think is capable of pulling off the biggest military deception in the history of man.... f-ed up and planted the WRONG FDR information.

 

[Turbofan]

Hey, don't get mad with me because I showed you how the data updates and
transfers actually work.

If you're not going to believe PFT, at least understand that you can't have
old data sitting around on the data bus!

-I have yet to see any PFFT or CIT dolt explain the flight 77 passenger still strapped in their seat.

Prove those pics came from the Pentagon. How can you have a body in a seat
survive the impact and fire if the plane vapourized along with the 9 TON
engines?! Think about it.

-The personal belongings that were retrieved.

Planted? Where's the proof the 'belongings' came from jet passengers and
not from employees of the Pentagon?

-How literally thousands of pounds of airplane debris were scattered all over the Pentagon without anyone seeing them.

Where are the serial numbers to identify the pieces? I still have not seen them.

-How these bombs were planted in a construction zone of the Pentagon where literally HUNDREDS of civilian contractors were working every day. And created damage to make it look like a plane hit it.

Maybe after work hours?

-How the light poles were planted in the middle of rush hour without a soul seeing them.

The same light poles that were struck by a 500 MPH plane and just managed
to dart itself into a cab that stopped on a dime with no damage to the seats,
A-Pillar, or Hood....along with his goofy story? hahah....tell me another.

-And this government that you think is capable of pulling off the biggest military deception in the history of man.... f-ed up and planted the WRONG FDR information.

They should have consulted some smarter people to help them.
It wasn't good enough, and we caught the errors. Now we have questions
that need answering.

So instead of getting upset, why don't you look at the big picture? All of the
belief and hope that you had about 4 second old data is down the toilet...
but instead of raising a red flag, you being picking at other no non-supported
details and spin them?

Think about what you're doing.

 

[pomeroo]

Hey, don't get mad with me because I showed you how the data updates and
transfers actually work.

If you're not going to believe PFT, at least understand that you can't have
old data sitting around on the data bus!


Prove those pics came from the Pentagon. How can you have a body in a seat
survive the impact and fire if the plane vapourized along with the 9 TON
engines?! Think about it.



Planted? Where's the proof the 'belongings' came from jet passengers and
not from employees of the Pentagon?



Where are the serial numbers to identify the pieces? I still have not seen them.



Maybe after work hours?



The same light poles that were struck by a 500 MPH plane and just managed
to dart itself into a cab that stopped on a dime with no damage to the seats,
A-Pillar, or Hood....along with his goofy story? hahah....tell me another.



They should have consulted some smarter people to help them.
It wasn't good enough, and we caught the errors. Now we have questions
that need answering.

So instead of getting upset, why don't you look at the big picture? All of the
belief and hope that you had about 4 second old data is down the toilet...
but instead of raising a red flag, you being picking at other no non-supported
details and spin them?

Think about what you're doing.

You're not doing very well here.

 

[Mr.Herbert]

I am far from upset. If you noticed, I am laughing. Your theories are laughable. You claim to have all the knowledge about FDR etc and you ignore the facts from those smarter than you.

I am not talking about pictures of the corps. I am talking about the first responder that is an eyewitness to it.

"I did see airplane seats and a corpse still strapped to one of the seats."
–Capt. Jim Ingledue, Virginia Beach Fire Dept.

Personal Belongings were found... again you fail in your research.

[FONT=VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,SANS-SERIF]a burnt luggage tag and a wedding ring lie on a book dedicated to those lost in the events of Sept. 11, 2001. The wedding ring belonged to Ruth's daughter and the luggage tag belonged to one her granddaughters.-http://onlineathens.com/stories/091104/new_20040911030.shtml[/FONT]

Serial numbers... not the issue. How were thousands of pounds of airplane parts planted???

So, a covert construction crew comes in at night and plants bombs throughout the construction zone. These bombs were undetected by hundreds of other contractors?

Are you getting this all Turbo??

 

[Turbofan]

OK, whatever. Very convincing reply. Yawwwn....

All that matters is, I've proved Anti's theory wrong.

PFT has a solid review and conclusion of the FDR data.

Nobody here understands enough to figure it out. Shame.

Keep spinning your wheels in the dark, or get educated on the subject.

It's your choice.

 

[pomeroo]

OK, whatever. Very convincing reply. Yawwwn....

All that matters is, I've proved Anti's theory wrong.

PFT has a solid review and conclusion of the FDR data.

Nobody here understands enough to figure it out. Shame.

Keep spinning your wheels in the dark, or get educated on the subject.

It's your choice.

There many witnesses to the crash of a commercial airliner into the Pentagon. NOBODY witnessed a flyover.

 

[Mr.Herbert]

You have proven nothing Turbo.

You are failing miserably, not being able to explain any of the above that I have posted. You are just like the others..... Soon you will disappear like a fart in the wind.

 

[Turbofan]

Are you getting this all Turbo??

I'm getting it all...and it's not adding up!

Now paper luggage tags can withstand fire, but 9 ton engines, wheel hubs, etc.
get vapourized.

Does that make sense to you? ARE YOU GETTING THIS?