Obama a Marxist? Seriously?

gdnp said:
Well, it wouldn't surprise me if certain members had been planted here by Karl Rove to supply disinformation about Obama. Of course, since I have no evidence to support it, I would never make such a charge.
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Frank Marshal Davis being a member of the Communist Party and a mentor to Barack Obama is not disinformation. Not one representative from the media has asked Obama about this. They do not want to derail his campaign. They would have never asked any questions about Rev. Wright if his antics were not posted on YouTube. If Obama gets elected, he can thank the media for not asking the important questions.
 
MaGZ said:
Frank Marshal Davis being a member of the Communist Party and a mentor to Barack Obama is not disinformation. Not one representative from the media has asked Obama about this. They do not want to derail his campaign. They would have never asked any questions about Rev. Wright if his antics were not posted on YouTube. If Obama gets elected, he can thank the media for not asking the important questions.
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He does such a good job keeping his puppets Limbaugh, Hannity, and O'Reilly in line, doesn't he?
 
What is wrong even if Obama does have marxist leanings? It occurs to me critics who talk mostly about Obama's marxist thoughts want people to associate Obama with Stalinism. The people who banish any thought of Obama having marxist thoughts seem to do so because they are afraid Obama will be associated with Stalinism or Maoist thought.
 
corplinx said:
What is wrong even if Obama does have marxist leanings? It occurs to me critics who talk mostly about Obama's marxist thoughts want people to associate Obama with Stalinism. The people who banish any thought of Obama having marxist thoughts seem to do so because they are afraid Obama will be associated with Stalinism or Maoist thought.
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Let's face it: Marxism has performed pretty dismally everywhere it has been tried. Anyone who would like to try to set up a Marxist state would have a high burden of proof that their Marxist state would work better than all the others did. In the US, however, socialism carries almost the same stigma as Marxism, and thus many would like to continue continue our hugely expensive and not very effective system for fear of the socialized systems that the rest of the developed world uses.
 
gdnp said:
Let's face it: Marxism has performed pretty dismally everywhere it has been tried. Anyone who would like to try to set up a Marxist state would have a high burden of proof that their Marxist state would work better than all the others did. In the US, however, socialism carries almost the same stigma as Marxism, and thus many would like to continue continue our hugely expensive and not very effective system for fear of the socialized systems that the rest of the developed world uses.
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Heh, I'd say Liberal has the same stigma. If a major candidate was actually a socialist I think people's heads would explode :p .
 
gdnp said:
Let's face it: Marxism has performed pretty dismally everywhere it has been tried. Anyone who would like to try to set up a Marxist state would have a high burden of proof that their Marxist state would work better than all the others did. In the US, however, socialism carries almost the same stigma as Marxism, and thus many would like to continue continue our hugely expensive and not very effective system for fear of the socialized systems that the rest of the developed world uses.
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So Marxism is a pure entity whose concepts do not work unless the whole is accepted? There are no states today who have one or more policy's that seem marxist or inspired by Marxism?
 
corplinx said:
So Marxism is a pure entity whose concepts do not work unless the whole is accepted? There are no states today who have one or more policy's that seem marxist or inspired by Marxism?
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No, I guess marxism, like religion, has true believers who accept the whole premise, and others who pick and choose the parts they like and the parts they don't. Progressive taxation can be considered "from each according to his abilities", for example. What's your point?
 
MaGZ said:
Lieberman is a Jew first and a Democrat second. America fighting wars in the Middle East is good for Israel.

Today Iraq, tomorrow Iran.
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And it's idiots like you that caused me to become pro-choice. You'll be making my Anti-Semitism Wall of Shame very shortly MAGZI.
 
corplinx said:
So Marxism is a pure entity whose concepts do not work unless the whole is accepted? There are no states today who have one or more policy's that seem marxist or inspired by Marxism?
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Well it is sort of a chicken or egg type of thing. The New Testament has elements of "Marxist/Communist thought" and Ben Franklin championed public education another Marxist/Communist goal. Heck the Constitution of the USSR was a plagiarized version the US Constitution. Even Mien Kampf had elements of Marxist/Communist thought. Marxism is just a subset of Communist ideology which is in turn a collection of concepts and philosophies practiced in one form or the other down through history.
 
corplinx said:
So Marxism is a pure entity whose concepts do not work unless the whole is accepted? There are no states today who have one or more policy's that seem marxist or inspired by Marxism?
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Cuba, Vietnam, Laos would all claim to be.

You can't really have elements of marxism because the core of marxism is fundimentaly hostile to capitalism as we know it. About the closest you could get would be a system of competeing workers' cooperatives.

Apart from anything else anything you might consider an element of marxism predates it.


Nationalised industries have existed for as long as kings found it useful to have a source of income other than taxation. Even sort of democratic athens had it's state owned silver mines.

Workers' cooperatives predate Marx attending university.

State managed economies surface in emergenices.

As for various forms of welfare it's no coincidence that in england the state didn't really try and do anything about poor untill after the disolution of the monasteries.
 
corplinx said:
So Marxism is a pure entity whose concepts do not work unless the whole is accepted? There are no states today who have one or more policy's that seem marxist or inspired by Marxism?
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Yeah. It's kind of like Libertarianism that way. :rolleyes:
 
Anyone who thinks Obama is a Marxist is clearly ignorant of both. Others who should know better (like Rove, Kristol, Napalitano) are lying.
 
Tony said:
WTF is an "average western collectivist"?
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Liberal.

I, however, don't agree with the view that Liberalism (In the American sense) is just part of the continuum to Marxism. Marxism is the complete destruction of capitalism, Liberalism is just regulating capitalism to make the busts of the business cycle worse and make society "fairer". Liberals still believe in capitalism, they just think that it should be monitored. As opposed to conservatives who think that regulation leads to inefficiencies, etc.

And, of course, there are drastically differing types of Marxism as well. So I view Marxism as a separate continuum from Liberals and Conservatives.

And then you can toss in other Radicals and you end up with lots of different things.

Basically, I disagree with most continuum concepts of ideology, though I like taking the tests :p .
 
Obama's Mentor

MaGZ said:
Frank Marshal Davis being a member of the Communist Party and a mentor to Barack Obama is not disinformation. Not one representative from the media has asked Obama about this. They do not want to derail his campaign. They would have never asked any questions about Rev. Wright if his antics were not posted on YouTube. If Obama gets elected, he can thank the media for not asking the important questions.
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Master Poster MaGZ: What evidence can you provide, other than accusations, that Frank Marshall Davis was a member of the Communist Party USA or Obama's mentor? Neither Davis not the CPUSA acknowledge that he was a member. Obama does not call him his mentor in "Dreams From My Father." That relationship was fabricated by conservative bloggers such as Cliff Kincaid from Accuracy In Media.

Please advise. Thanks!
 
And good for the media to not fall for this bait. Perhaps they DID learn something from the Swiftboat nonsense in the last election?

There is no reason to "ask Obama about it" because there is nothing to ask about. It's made up BS with nothing behind it.
 
Kaleokualoha said:
Master Poster MaGZ: What evidence can you provide, other than accusations, that Frank Marshall Davis was a member of the Communist Party USA or Obama's mentor? Neither Davis not the CPUSA acknowledge that he was a member. Obama does not call him his mentor in "Dreams From My Father." That relationship was fabricated by conservative bloggers such as Cliff Kincaid from Accuracy In Media.

Please advise. Thanks!
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You can read the article and follow the links.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Marshall_Davis
 
MaGZ said:
Brainster, were you ever a card carrying member of SDS?
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No, I was way too young. Didn't even start college until 1973, well after the heyday of Billy Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn.
 
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