Who pissod off Penn?

Claus, I don't really care what you want. You can keep asking of course. Suit yourself.

I will.

I can't believe you are even arguing this most basic fact of human nature.

I'm not arguing that people aren't biased. I question your claim that scientists' political biases influence their scientific conclusions.

Here is the evidence of the obvious but if this gets further away from the topic of Penn's biases you'll have to start another thread.

You made the claim in this, your own, thread. You back it up with evidence in this, your own, thread.

So,

Present your evidence that Richard Dawkins' conclusions are influenced by his political bias.

Present your evidence that Carl Sagan's conclusions are influenced by his political bias.

Present your evidence that Phil Plait's conclusions are influenced by his political bias.
 
For ex. The IPCC data is adjusted for the increase in tempurature by the centralization of people and mass surrounding the reporting points AKA airports. This is at best a guess. Someone actually made assumptions here. The IPCC data actually tried to compensate for trends that showed overheating in areas that the satellite data did not support.The historical error in these adjustments have far outweighed the heating or cooling trends.

The reporting points are in fact increasing in tempurature at an alarming rate. The global average of measured tempuratures are too.

How much do you adjust the reporting points? The IPCC data picked the points as they chose. I see no data whatsoever to believe that we are warming the planet as a whole. A simple physics class should convince you that we are a closed system, and the only input is the sun.
 
Claus,
I took care of 2 and 3.
I had no idea that Dawkins had an opinoin of the subject.

Carl was a dope smoking democrat that had communist leanings. That doesn't make him wrong, but it does make the point.
 
For ex. The IPCC data is adjusted for the increase in tempurature by the centralization of people and mass surrounding the reporting points AKA airports. This is at best a guess. Someone actually made assumptions here. The IPCC data actually tried to compensate for trends that showed overheating in areas that the satellite data did not support.The historical error in these adjustments have far outweighed the heating or cooling trends.

The reporting points are in fact increasing in tempurature at an alarming rate. The global average of measured tempuratures are too.

How much do you adjust the reporting points? The IPCC data picked the points as they chose. I see no data whatsoever to believe that we are warming the planet as a whole. A simple physics class should convince you that we are a closed system, and the only input is the sun.
I see nothing backing up your claims, and this line of arguement belongs in another thread. I asked you for evidence the IPCC had a reason to willfully lie about the scientific results. I asked you for anti-GW evidence from a reliable source that wasn't paid by Exxon. You are not a reliable source. You are an anonymous person on a forum. And frankly, you sound like other woo believers claiming some little fact that supposedly refutes hundreds of scientists and their work.
 
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I will.



I'm not arguing that people aren't biased. I question your claim that scientists' political biases influence their scientific conclusions.



You made the claim in this, your own, thread. You back it up with evidence in this, your own, thread.

So,

Present your evidence that Richard Dawkins' conclusions are influenced by his political bias.

Present your evidence that Carl Sagan's conclusions are influenced by his political bias.

Present your evidence that Phil Plait's conclusions are influenced by his political bias.
I have no reason to reply to this distortion of what I posted. When did you stop beating your wife? Please answer the question.
 
I have no reason to reply to this distortion of what I posted. When did you stop beating your wife? Please answer the question.

How is it a distortion?

Did you not claim that all scientists have political biases?

Yes, you did.

Did you not claim that scientists' conclusions are biased?

Yes, you did.

But, if you want to:

Provide evidence that Richard Dawkin's scientific conclusions are in any way biased.

Provide evidence that Carl Sagan's scientific conclusions are in any way biased.

Provide evidence that Phil Plait's scientific conclusions are in any way biased.
 
I created a bumper sticker for my truck. It reads: "I'd rather be ignorant than wrong."

I agree with Penn. There is nothing wrong with saying "I don't know."
 
I created a bumper sticker for my truck. It reads: "I'd rather be ignorant than wrong."

I agree with Penn. There is nothing wrong with saying "I don't know."

Absolutely not.

However, it becomes a problem when skeptics are chided for being unskeptical, merely because they either haven't heard of something, or they don't share your political convictions.
 
Oh, dearie me...

This about what you are saying here.
I have, perhaps you should too, before responding, because you have totally misrepresented what I said,m either through dishonesty or ignorance, I'll let you tell me which.

If scientists are political by definition, what makes their work scientific?
the fact that they use the scientific method, the fact that they strive for repeatability and that they submit to peer review, their personal beliefs have no bearing on whether the evidence they produce should be accepted or not. However it is often interesting to look at how they decide which areas to investigate.

If all of their work is influenced by their own politics, then none of their results are valid.
utter rubbish, their work stands and falls on the evidence, regardless of what influences they had in carrying out the work.


Scientists stop doing science when they become political.
scientists cease to be human when they stop being political. I am unaware of any scientist which have managed the feat whilst alive.
That's precisely why scientists must adhere to the scientific method.


You clearly have no idea what the terms "political" and "science" mean. It is perfectly possible to be both political and use the scientific method. The evidences stands and falls on its own, regardless of the person who puts it forward, or would you rather argue to the man than to the evidence? (hmmm if only there was a snappy Latin phrase to describe that fallacy...)

The idea that anyone at any time can be free from all bias is laughable, that doesn't make their conclusions invalid- the work should be able to stand or fall on its own regardless of the personal opinions of the person who created it. Should peer review journals include political opinions of the authors in the error bars of their articles?
 
I have, perhaps you should too, before responding, because you have totally misrepresented what I said,m either through dishonesty or ignorance, I'll let you tell me which.

It could, of course, also be simple misunderstanding. Ever considered that?

the fact that they use the scientific method, the fact that they strive for repeatability and that they submit to peer review, their personal beliefs have no bearing on whether the evidence they produce should be accepted or not. However it is often interesting to look at how they decide which areas to investigate.

If you think scientists just decide which areas to investigate and then do it, you have a very distorted view of how scientific progress happens.

Scientists have to carefully select the projects they are interested in, because somebody, somewhere, has to pay the bills. Is some of that politically decided? You bet. Just think of stem cell research - a politically charged area.

utter rubbish, their work stands and falls on the evidence, regardless of what influences they had in carrying out the work.

But it isn't about what influences that had in carrying out the work. It's about the conclusions they draw.

scientists cease to be human when they stop being political. I am unaware of any scientist which have managed the feat whilst alive.

Then, I'll ask the same of you as I did of skeptigirl:

Present your evidence that Richard Dawkins' conclusions are influenced by his political bias.

Present your evidence that Carl Sagan's conclusions are influenced by his political bias.

Present your evidence that Phil Plait's conclusions are influenced by his political bias.


You clearly have no idea what the terms "political" and "science" mean. It is perfectly possible to be both political and use the scientific method. The evidences stands and falls on its own, regardless of the person who puts it forward, or would you rather argue to the man than to the evidence? (hmmm if only there was a snappy Latin phrase to describe that fallacy...)

I am perfectly aware of what both terms mean.

The idea that anyone at any time can be free from all bias is laughable,

Who has claimed that anyone can be free from all bias at any time? I haven't.

that doesn't make their conclusions invalid- the work should be able to stand or fall on its own regardless of the personal opinions of the person who created it. Should peer review journals include political opinions of the authors in the error bars of their articles?

They would have to - if your claim was true.
 
I see nothing backing up your claims, and this line of arguement belongs in another thread. I asked you for evidence the IPCC had a reason to willfully lie about the scientific results. I asked you for anti-GW evidence from a reliable source that wasn't paid by Exxon. You are not a reliable source. You are an anonymous person on a forum. And frankly, you sound like other woo believers claiming some little fact that supposedly refutes hundreds of scientists and their work.

If you have no knowledge of how the IPCC data was collected, then this argument has no way to get off the ground.

You need to check the data for yourself.

There is still no way to draw a conclusion from it.

That was the point of the OP.
 
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Because you say so? I think not.

I posted a link on a discussion of the logic involved.

Care to try and find one that disputes the link I cited?

So the next time someone says "Black people are criminals", you won't call them a racist, because you will know that some black people are, in fact, criminals, and those are the ones that person is referring too.

Yeah, right. :rolleyes:
 
So the next time someone says "Black people are criminals", you won't call them a racist, because you will know that some black people are, in fact, criminals, and those are the ones that person is referring too.

Yeah, right. :rolleyes:
And Muslims are terrorists.
And white people are neo-Nazis.
And Jews are ambulance-chasing lawyers.
And Democrats are fat, skirt-chasing, alcoholic tubs of goo, with brain cancer.

This is fun! :)
 
50 percent of black presidential candidates want to cut off all other black presidential candidate's genitalia.

Neo-Nazis are almost all white

Terrorists are almost completely Muslim, or Catholic

Ambulance chasing lawyers are predominently Jewish.

Dumb people are nearly all democrats
 
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For ex. The IPCC...
I love how a/gw pseudo-skeptics use the IPCC as a convenient punching bag (or Al Gore as the case may be), ignoring the fact that it's a meta study supported by numerous studies.

How much do you adjust the reporting points? The IPCC data picked the points as they chose. I see no data whatsoever to believe that we are warming the planet as a whole. A simple physics class should convince you that we are a closed system, and the only input is the sun.
This is abject nonsense of course. I do enjoy the way you present your whimsical ideas as if absolute fact though.
 
It could, of course, also be simple misunderstanding. Ever considered that?
OK, so it is ignorance then, fine.

If you think scientists just decide which areas to investigate and then do it, you have a very distorted view of how scientific progress happens.
If I had have thought that IO would have said that.

But it isn't about what influences that had in carrying out the work. It's about the conclusions they draw.
but if a question is not examined, then no conclusions are drawn about the answer to the question.


Then, I'll ask the same of you as I did of skeptigirl:

Present your evidence that Richard Dawkins' conclusions are influenced by his political bias.

Present your evidence that Carl Sagan's conclusions are influenced by his political bias.

Present your evidence that Phil Plait's conclusions are influenced by his political bias.
When I make those claims it will be legitimate to ask me for evidence form them, I have not, so it is not.

I am perfectly aware of what both terms mean.
if so, then your posts are quite quite bizarre, if not outright dishonest. Personaly I feel that perhaps you don't know what one, or both, of those terms mean.


They would have to - if your claim was true.
You obviously don't know what my claim is, or are chosing to misrepsrent it.
 
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What is the obsession with whether the climate is changing naturally?

Surely a more relevant question is whether the climate is changing adversely for humans, and if reducing CO2 emissions would help counter that?

There is certainly evidence that it is currently warming. The longest set of measurements (the Hadley Central England dataset) shows definite increases in its "running average":

This is the raw data from 1690-2005, when I made this graph

1449447ad7aa17aaa6.png


You can see the rise in temperature more clearly in a Cusum chart, where any constant gradient is a constant average temperature, not the change just before 1900, and another just around 1980 (which is harder to see on this scale). If you look closer at the later data, you can actully see that the gradient is increasing, which means that the average temperature is increasing (I do have this data plotted too, should that be required).

1449447ad7aa1b774e.png


ETA: Now obviously this is only for central England, but more recent global measurements also tell a similar story over their timescales.
 
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I love how a/gw pseudo-skeptics use the IPCC as a convenient punching bag (or Al Gore as the case may be), ignoring the fact that it's a meta study supported by numerous studies.

This is abject nonsense of course. I do enjoy the way you present your whimsical ideas as if absolute fact though.

You say deniers, I say alarmist. I see no data that shows that we change the climate any more so than it changed before people were around. We haven't made an ice age, or warmed to that extent.

I like the environment just as much as then next guy and conserve as I can.

People who speak of imminent doom are religious zealots wherever you find them. Period.
 
And Muslims are terrorists.
And white people are neo-Nazis.
And Jews are ambulance-chasing lawyers.
And Democrats are fat, skirt-chasing, alcoholic tubs of goo, with brain cancer.

This is fun! :)

Yep. But under the rules of Skeptigirl's bizarre "logic", these statements are all perfectly OK and not subject to criticism.
 

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