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Luftl Report:Gas Chambers Not Possible

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Mondial

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Whilst you are welcome to post about any subject that is appropriate for a given section of this Forum, it is not a place to merely post quotes from a website with no follow up - this is a discussion forum.

If you wish to discuss something you may of course reference and link to your own and other peoples pages and even reproduce small sections of articles here if relevant to the discussion.

In the last three threads you have created over the last day or so you have merely posted a small excerpt and added no commentary of your own and not engaged in any discussion at all. This is a breach of Rule 6 of your Membership Agreement

If you wish to open a thread that is appropriate for this section of the Forum and engage in a discussion please feel free to do so however the threads in breach of Rule 6 have been closed.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat

Walter Luftl was president of the Austrian engineers association. He wrote a report that the "gas chambers" as described in holocaust literature were impossible from an engineering point of view -
THE LUFTL REPORT
[nfurl]www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p391_Luftl.html[/nfURL]
 
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Mondial said:
Walter Luftl was president of the Austrian engineers association. He wrote a report that the "gas chambers" as described in holocaust literature were impossible from an engineering point of view -
THE LUFTL REPORT
[nfurl]www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p391_Luftl.html[/nfURL]
Click to expand...
More lies from the IHR by way of Mondial.
 
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Mondial said:
Walter Luftl was president of the Austrian engineers association. He wrote a report that the "gas chambers" as described in holocaust literature were impossible from an engineering point of view -
THE LUFTL REPORT
[nfurl]www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p391_Luftl.html[/nfURL]
That's really odd, I have read the descriptions of the designs (and seen pictures of same)(more than one) and methods of introducing and removing the gas and have not noted any flaws that would prevent their function as designed. Feel free to enlighten us. We are not, after all, talking about something particularly complicated - only major problem is preventing leaks of more than minor amounts of the chemical(s). Sorry we are not allowed to discuss proper tests of same.
Click to expand...
 
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Much against my preference, and at the risk of loosing my breakfast (local time is ~0900), I read the report in the link.

I will spare you the gruesome detail, and just address the main points.

Luftl concludes that gas chambers could not have worked for the following reasons:

1) He hints that the temperature would be too low for Zyclon B to release enough cyanide gas. He says, maybe the chambers were heated to reach the required temperature of 25degC. Yes, the chambers were heated by frightened people stacked into them at a density of 5 persons per square meter or more. A dressed person at rest dissipates approximately 110W (this is, of course, subject to considerable individual variation). A naked person, who is anxious and frightened, will dissipate at least twice that power. Thus, if 100 persons were in a gas chamber (probably a minimum number), 220,000W would serve to heat the room. 25degC is probably a conservative figure.

2) Luftl wonders at the ventilation procedure (after the victims had died). He makes the assumption that the ventilators are extractors, and that there is thus a problem with getting in fresh air. This is plain silly: Either some of the ventilators sent fresh air in, or some valved openings were supplied. Maybe they even just opened the door ajar. At any rate, the Germans engineers were surely able to cope with this trivial problem. Luftl claims that no air inlets were found, but since he has not examined a gas chamber personally, and since he, in other connections, put heavy doubts on the accounts that he suddenly relies on for this particular point, we can safely ignore that claim.

3) Luftl claims that early in 1944, the Zyclon B production facilities were destroyed by bombing, and concludes that no gassings could have taken place after the summer 1944 (because the shelf time for Zyclon B is 3 months). This claim is naive for several reasons: The Germans were very good at distributing production, and since heavy and repeated bombings could not stop them from producing e.g. FW190 fighters, we can safely assume that a single bombing raid would not keep them from producing something as simple as Zyclon B. Also, even if production was stopped, Zyclon B, despite a formal shelf life, obviously doesn't suddenly stop working after three months, so I'm sure the Nazis would have chanced using some outdated gas cannisters.

4) Luftl's final coup is the observation that the Zyclon B powder would continue emitting Cyanide gas for several hours, thus making the gruesome job of clearing out the gas the victims and the left behinds of crowded panicking, dying people dangerous, too. He really gives the answer himself: The people tasked with this could have been equipped with gas masks. Luftl makes a big problem out of the clearing out of remains and residual, still out gassing powder, but it should really not be such a problem. Cyanide is water soluble and becomes harmless if sufficiently diluted, so a simple hosing down of the chamber should solve the problem. I don't think the Nazis worried much about polluting the sewers.

The rest of Luftl's objections is unimportant bickering.

A good example of the level of Luftl's argumentation is here:

At Mauthausen, the gas generator consisted of a sheet metal box with a lid, in which a hot brick (that had been heated in the open fire of the crematorium) was laid. This means that the SS could have gassed people only when bodies were already being burned.
Click to expand...

Oh sure! It is, of course, utterly impossible to obtain a heated brick unless you have a crematorium running, full of dead bodies. :rolleyes:

Hans
 
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MRC_Hans said:
4) Luftl's final coup is the observation that the Zyclon B powder would continue emitting Cyanide gas for several hours, thus making the gruesome job of clearing out the gas the victims and the left behinds of crowded panicking, dying people dangerous, too. He really gives the answer himself: The people tasked with this could have been equipped with gas masks. Luftl makes a big problem out of the clearing out of remains and residual, still out gassing powder, but it should really not be such a problem. Cyanide is water soluble and becomes harmless if sufficiently diluted, so a simple hosing down of the chamber should solve the problem. I don't think the Nazis worried much about polluting the sewers.
Click to expand...

I believe the Germans used to use Jews to remove the victims. I thought they were known as Zondaguardsmen, but a quick google turned up nothing so I am guessing I have the spelling wrong.

Regardless, if these guys were sent in a little early and succumed to residual fumes, I dont think the Germans cared all that much
 
Mondial said:
Walter Luftl was president of the Austrian engineers association. He wrote a report that the "gas chambers" as described in holocaust literature were impossible from an engineering point of view -
THE LUFTL REPORT
[nfurl]www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p391_Luftl.html[/nfURL]

Anyone believing this crap should travel to Auschwitz and see for themselves.

Have you been there Mondial? I suspect not on basis of the crap you're spewing all over this forum.
Click to expand...
 
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Magenta said:
Starting multiple threads all citing the same holocaust denial website? That pattern?
Click to expand...

Yeah, that one.

MG1962 said:
I believe the Germans used to use Jews to remove the victims. I thought they were known as Zondaguardsmen, but a quick google turned up nothing so I am guessing I have the spelling wrong.
Click to expand...

Close. "Zondercommandos."
 
MRC_Hans said:
Much against my preference, and at the risk of loosing my breakfast (local time is ~0900), I read the report in the link.

I will spare you the gruesome detail, and just address the main points.

Luftl concludes that gas chambers could not have worked for the following reasons:

1) He hints that the temperature would be too low for Zyclon B to release enough cyanide gas. He says, maybe the chambers were heated to reach the required temperature of 25degC. Yes, the chambers were heated by frightened people stacked into them at a density of 5 persons per square meter or more. A dressed person at rest dissipates approximately 110W (this is, of course, subject to considerable individual variation). A naked person, who is anxious and frightened, will dissipate at least twice that power. Thus, if 100 persons were in a gas chamber (probably a minimum number), 220,000W would serve to heat the room. 25degC is probably a conservative figure.
Click to expand...

You are over by an order of magnitude, I think, but I think the argument still stands.
 
Beady said:
I've asked this question in one of the other threads: Does Mondial ever actually participate in these discussions that s/he starts?
Click to expand...

For the last ones I have seen, I think the answer is no. He´s a troll.
As said by others before, it is still good to adress his "points".
Otherwise lurkers could suspect that he is actually right.
That should not happen.
 
MRC_Hans said:
A good example of the level of Luftl's argumentation is here:
At Mauthausen, the gas generator consisted of a sheet metal box with a lid, in which a hot brick (that had been heated in the open fire of the crematorium) was laid. This means that the SS could have gassed people only when bodies were already being burned.
Click to expand...
Oh sure! It is, of course, utterly impossible to obtain a heated brick unless you have a crematorium running, full of dead bodies. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Moreover, the Mauthausen case is not that interesting. It had a gas chamber, sure, but it was used only now and then. Mauthausen was not a Vernichtungslager (annihilation camp) which had as objective to kill off the inmates as soon as they arrived on an industrial scale, but a "normal" concentration camp where people were penned in, bullied, and worked to death. In case of Mauthausen in the quarry next to it. That was the main cause of death there, followed by illness and suicide from the wayside to the quarry, a place dubbed the Flugplatz ("airport").
 
Mondial's posting pattern seems well established.

Is he violating any forum rule, or must we put up with this rubbish indefinitely?

I can imagine no clearer case of offensive trolling.
 
I've been to Mauthausen. Been in the showers. Climbed the quarry road. All quite upsetting.
 
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