The Inspections Are Working

[BPSCG]

Close. Yellowcake is refined natural uranium, but in a metalic salt state.

Depleted uranium is different than natural urnium as it has had the isotopes needed to make a bomb removed.

So all the discussion of depleted uranium here is completely off-topic, is that correct?

 

[ponderingturtle]

So all the discussion of depleted uranium here is completely off-topic, is that correct?

What is the topic?

The claim that something that was known about before the war, that seems was never demanded be turned over, what shipped out of the country.

The whole thing is an irrelevent, it is grapsing at straws for a rationalization.

I brought depleted uranium up because those are uses that metalic uranium could be put to, and that seems to be the only uses that this material could be put to as they did not have the capabilities to isolate the fissionable isotopes.

The whole point of the OP use useing the word uranium as a scare tactic, so why limit it so the uranium they had and show that the US used uranium too?

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

I love it when the leftist apologists find themselves furiously backpedaling. First they tried to claim that Saddam had no yellowcake. Whoops, he did. Okay, then they tried to claim he wasn't trying to get yellowcake from Niger. Except that Bush never claimed he was trying to get it from Niger. Somehow Joe Wilson managed to make everyone believe that straw man. Helps to have lots of Bush-hating friends in the mainstream media.

Now they say, "Oh, we knew he had yellowcake all along." Yeah, right. And you "knew it all along" that the Soviet Union was not as strong as it looked and that it was ready to collapse and that Ronald Reagan just happened to be standing around to steal the credit when it did collapse.

Pull the other one. Next you'll be saying you "knew all along" that the surge in Iraq would work.

Er no. I love it when the right simply cannot accept their own lies. Where is the WMD by the way? You know the actual real weapons. Not some figment of your imagination. Where exactly are they?


Where is the evidence that Saddam Hussein was in league with Al Quaeda on the 11th of September? You know the claims that the torturers Dick and Condie and Dub were telling everybody. Where is that evidence. I mean real evidence, not something the three torturers thought up. What about a bit of the truth for a change?

I seem to remember those two being the justifcation for invading Iraq and neither of them was, you know, true.

What else do you want? Do you want the embarrassment of the century for the US when Colin Powell sat in front of the world at the UN and claimed all sorts of rubbish that turned out to be, well untrue.

Man bites dog or the US government tells the truth - now those are stories.

 

[BPSCG]

Er no. I love it when the right simply cannot accept their own lies. Where is the WMD by the way? You know the actual real weapons. Not some figment of your imagination. Where exactly are they?


Where is the evidence that Saddam Hussein was in league with Al Quaeda on the 11th of September? You know the claims that the torturers Dick and Condie and Dub were telling everybody. Where is that evidence. I mean real evidence, not something the three torturers thought up. What about a bit of the truth for a change?

I seem to remember those two being the justifcation for invading Iraq and neither of them was, you know, true.

What else do you want? Do you want the embarrassment of the century for the US when Colin Powell sat in front of the world at the UN and claimed all sorts of rubbish that turned out to be, well untrue.

Man bites dog or the US government tells the truth - now those are stories.

Ooh, good. This is a motherlode of material for new EJA edited-and-out-of-context sig line material. Can't seem to modify my sig lines from work, so I have to email it home. Gonna be fun.

 

[BPSCG]

I brought depleted uranium up because those are uses that metalic uranium could be put to, and that seems to be the only uses that this material could be put to as they did not have the capabilities to isolate the fissionable isotopes.

Not any more, perhaps.

So, is it your position that Saddam had 550 metric tons of yellowcake so he could turn it into depleted uranium?

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

Ooh, good. This is a motherlode of material for new EJA edited-and-out-of-context sig line material. Can't seem to modify my sig lines from work, so I have to email it home. Gonna be fun.

The demoniser promies to continue demonising.

Remind me why the staus quo is news again.

Do tell us all where do you work so your boss can be informed that you have been using his time attempting to demonise people. Now, that would be fun

 

[joobz]

Not any more, perhaps.

So, is it your position that Saddam had 550 metric tons of yellowcake so he could turn it into depleted uranium?

It seems you are being intentionally obtuse. I thought you'd be better than that.

1.) Pre gulf-war 1(<1990), Saddam was attempting to develop a nuclear weapons program.
2.) Post Gulf-war 1 (>1991), Sanctions and weapons inspections were developed to completely stop and prevent Saddam from developing this weapons program.
3.) 2003 Weapons inspections found no indication of a continued Nuclear weapons program.
4.) Gulf war II
5.) Post gulf war II, no indication of a continued nuclear weapons program.

Having no nuclear program and still having yellow cake aren't the same thing. HAving bags of oats doesn't mean you can bake bread.

 

[BPSCG]

Having no nuclear program and still having yellow cake aren't the same thing. HAving bags of oats doesn't mean you can bake bread.

Nope. But if you have 550 metric tons of oats, it's probably safe to say you plan to use them for food somehow.

What was Saddam planning to do with 550 metric tons of yellowcake that he supposedly had no use for? And why was he trying to get even more?

 

[LordoftheLeftHand]

And why was he trying to get even more?

I thought you said he wasn't trying to get more?

LLH

 

[joobz]

Nope. But if you have 550 metric tons of oats, it's probably safe to say you plan to use them for food somehow.

What was Saddam planning to do with 550 metric tons of yellowcake that he supposedly had no use for? And why was he trying to get even more?

Good questions, and while I do not know the exact answer, I'm guessing it's a bit more beuracratic than nefarious. 550 metric tons of yellowcake represents a sizable commodity and one that Saddam isn't likely going to give away. Sanctions most likely limited his ability to sell this ore. Also, he probably did fantasize about one day having a nuclear program.
Did he try to obtain equipment to do something with it? I don't know. But the weapons inspectors never found an indication of that (from what I understand) and it turns out there was no evidence of that post Iraq war II.

As it has already been mentioned, the yellow cake was known to the US and UN prior to Iraq war II. It's existence isn't at all amazing. It's presence doesn't mean anything other than Saddam had a stock pile commodity that he couldn't do anything with.


ETA: I thought it was determined that the claims of Saddams attempts to get yellowcake from Nigeria were fabricated?

 

[shadron]

Thanks. Is it fair to say that yellowcake's relationship to depleted uranium is similar to iron ore's relationship to rust? I.E.:

1. Yellowcake is the raw material that you make something useful out of (to the extent that nuclear weapons are "useful"); iron ore is the raw material that you make something useful out of.
2. Depleted uranium is what you have after the useful product in (1) above is no longer able to serve its purpose; rust is what you have after the useful product in (1) above is no longer able to serve its purpose.

Or have I misunderstood?

You're right, Beeps. Yellowcake is uranium oxide (actually U3O8), and is an intermediate step in metallurgical refinement of uranium from ore. Like the ore itself, it is some very small fraction U238 and mostly U235 with a few other very small percentages of other isotopes, plus a pile of oxygen. It is converted to uranium hexafluoride (a corrisive gas) and then run through the centrifuges or other separation to create enriched uranium for whatever purpose (bombs or breeder reactors). The U235 left over after the 238 is extracted is "depleted uranium", slightly alpha radioactive and very dense (just about the densest material naturally available, and certainly the densist common one). It's used in munition not because it is radioactive but rather because it has very high density, the better to be able to break through tank armour and cause holes or spalling of the inside of the armour, lethal to the crew.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Not any more, perhaps.

So, is it your position that Saddam had 550 metric tons of yellowcake so he could turn it into depleted uranium?

And your position is that we found something that supports the claims made justifying the invasions, when it was already known about and never dammanded to be turned over?

It is rather like searching someones house for illegal weapons and then pointing out that you found a kitchen knife you knew he got for christmass last year.

Or was it that when they where our ally being courted by Rumsfeild and Cheney is when they where the most theat to the US?

All I was trying to suggest was uses for uranium when you don't have any capacity to refine it to use for fission devices.

Also the reactor Operation Osiris likely would have been pointless for this as you would likely need to refine the uranium before you put it in the reactor

 

[ponderingturtle]

Nope. But if you have 550 metric tons of oats, it's probably safe to say you plan to use them for food somehow.

If this is so dangerous, why didn't anyone demand that he turn it over before the war?

No one seems to have cared about this, until now.

 

[JoeEllison]

If this is so dangerous, why didn't anyone demand that he turn it over before the war?

No one seems to have cared about this, until now.

That's exactly the point. We knew about this in the 1990s, and it wasn't a justification for a war. We knew about it in 2001, when the sabers started rattling after 9-11, and it was never cited as a reason to invade. We knew bout it during and immediately after the invasion, and it was never used as an after-the-fact justification for the invasion. We're had troops Iraq all these years, and it has never, ever been used as an excuse for our continued presence.

So, why should it suddenly have any meaning whatsoever now that it has been removed from Iraq?

 

[joobz]

That's exactly the point. We knew about this in the 1990s, and it wasn't a justification for a war. We knew about it in 2001, when the sabers started rattling after 9-11, and it was never cited as a reason to invade. We knew bout it during and immediately after the invasion, and it was never used as an after-the-fact justification for the invasion. We're had troops Iraq all these years, and it has never, ever been used as an excuse for our continued presence.

So, why should it suddenly have any meaning whatsoever now that it has been removed from Iraq?

Obviously, it doesn't. If it was a smoking gun, the Bush admin would have been jumping up and down saying ,"see see, I told you. I told you!!!"

 

[JoeEllison]

Obviously, it doesn't. If it was a smoking gun, the Bush admin would have been jumping up and down saying ,"see see, I told you. I told you!!!"

Well, the point is that even the Bush administration knows how retarded they would look if they did that. So, they just release the information, and allow their bone-headed supporters to spread the news all over the Internet by way of blogs and such, along with the completely bogus right-wing spin that this constitutes some sort of "smoking gun." If it picks up steam, eventually Fox "News" might pick it up with their patented "we're just reporting what other people say" method of avoiding responsibility for their repetition of obvious lies. Then Fox "News" viewers can add another non-truth to their brains, and continue to be the most poorly-informed people in America.

 

[BPSCG]

And your position is that we found something that supports the claims made justifying the invasions, when it was already known about and never dammanded to be turned over?

It is rather like searching someones house for illegal weapons and then pointing out that you found a kitchen knife you knew he got for christmass last year.

(...snip...)

All I was trying to suggest was uses for uranium when you don't have any capacity to refine it to use for fission devices.

You were talking about depleted uranium.

What use does yellowcake have?

And why was Saddam still trying to get more?

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

You were talking about depleted uranium.

What use does yellowcake have?

And why was Saddam still trying to get more?

You have strangely failed to answer my simple questions.

let me just rephrase one.

Perhaps you can tell us where exactly are all the WMD.

PS
I just love your signature.
It confirms all the points I made about you much more clearly than I ever could.
Thanks.

PPS. I believe that you have confirmed that the words of yours I quoted about Muslim tribal leaders were in fact written by you, posted by you, that no other living person was involved in their authorship and that they were indeed about Muslim tribal leaders.

QED

Thanks again.

 

[BPSCG]

PPS. I believe that you have confirmed that the words of yours I quoted about Muslim tribal leaders were in fact written by you, posted by you, that no other living person was involved in their authorship and that they were indeed about Muslim tribal leaders.

You are quite mistaken. Go back to the post you are talking about and observe that the words you attribute to me in your sig line are in quotation marks, indicating for everyone with even a rudimentary understanding of the English language, that the author is quoting someone else.

Of course, people here other than you and I might not know who to believe. So I suggest you prove to the eager JREFers what an honest debater you are (and what a Muslim hater I am) by embedding a link to the referenced post. Otherwise people might think that you deliberately and dishonestly twisted my meaning, and you wouldn't want them to think that, would you?

If you don't know how to embed a link, feel free to PM me and I shall be happy to educate you.

 

[BPSCG]

E.J., since the term "put up or shut up" is apparently meaningless to you, I've decided to take matters into my own hands. I've tracked down my post which you took wildly out of its original context. I've embedded a link to it in my sig, so anyone can see what I actually wrote, as opposed to your twisting of it.

Henceforth, when I see a new post of yours with that sig line, I will treat it as a repetition of your claim that it's proof that I hate Muslims. And since every claim anyone here makes is subject to a rebuttal, I intend to post a rebuttal in the form of a short post inviting people to look at your sig line and to look at mine.