The Inspections Are Working

[ponderingturtle]

Oh yeah, the Hot shots. I forgot about those. They can melt right through a tank. But I thought Israel bombed out all Iraq's nuclear reactor? So where did they get nuclear waste and what were they going to do with it? Hot Shots? Hmmm. A violation of the UN agreement?

Melt is the wrong term as the effect is gross kinetic energy not thermal.

The point is that you don;t need a nuclear reactor for them. They are waste of the fuel makeing process, and would likely work just as well with normal metalic uranium as depleated uranium. It is that depeated uranium is less radioactive and as a waste product not terribly valuable.

One more question. If everyone knew about this yellowcake and it is useless for a bomb, why was it "a secret U.S. operation"?

Why is anything dealing with the movement of nuclear material secret?

Hell this is the bush administratin, they make things secret for the hell of it.

 

[Gurdur]

OP <--- EPIC fail. Truly epic. Truly fail. Later flailing noted, truly flail.

 

[BPSCG]

OP <--- EPIC fail. Truly epic. Truly fail. Later flailing noted, truly flail.

Every time I see a post from Gurdur, I'm reminded of a quote from Doctor Leonard McCoy: "He talks a lot but he doesn't say anything..."

 

[luchog]

Wait you just said it was useless. Make up your mind. Also please tell me about and where the US uses them? Or did you make that up?

Depleted Uranium ammunition. It is what the majority of the uranium in the yellowcake actually is, as it is metallic uranium. It just has most of the isotopes needed for nuclear bombs removed.

Nope. The US and UK have been phasing out the use of DU ammunition since the early part of the decade. The vast majority of the US's stockpiles have been replaced by tungsten-based ammunition. What little DU ammo is left is in the form of low-radiation "Staballoy", alloyed with other metals, such as titanium or molybdenum.

Despite being phased out as ammunition, DU is still in use as vehicle armour.

So it is waste from the nuclear programs, hence nuclear waste.

It's a byproduct from the standard fissile uranium mining and enrichment process (although it can be used unenriched for certain types of nuclear reactors). This is a substantially different animal from nuclear waste

It is also a negligible radiological hazard(pure natural uranium might be worse, but it would still not be that much of a radiological hazard)

The radiological hazard is minimal, being only slightly above natural background radiation; and slightly over half that of naturally occurring uranium. A number of studies have shown no significant long-term health effects.

The primary hazard with depleted uranium is heavy metal toxicity. DU is particularly bad for this, as it is pyrophoric, and on impact, the surface burns off rather than deforming (keeping the tip of the round sharp enough to effectively penetrate armour, aka "self-sharpening"), with larger fragments also oxidizing rapidly (which is also desirable, as it increased the likelihood of a target vehicle's fuel and/or ammunition exploding), creating a lot of highly toxic uranium oxide.

Interesting side note: It's estimated that for every square mile of soil, there is roughly 4 tons of uranium contained in the top 12 inches.

 

[joobz]

A battenburg bomb?

I don't get it.

 

[joobz]

Interesting side note: It's estimated that for every square mile of soil, there is roughly 4 tons of uranium contained in the top 12 inches.

Considering that represents ~1-1.5MTons of soil, that's about a 2.5-4ppm uranium content. Seems like a high estimate to me.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Nope. The US and UK have been phasing out the use of DU ammunition since the early part of the decade. The vast majority of the US's stockpiles have been replaced by tungsten-based ammunition. What little DU ammo is left is in the form of low-radiation "Staballoy", alloyed with other metals, such as titanium or molybdenum.

Despite being phased out as ammunition, DU is still in use as vehicle armour.

It's a byproduct from the standard fissile uranium mining and enrichment process (although it can be used unenriched for certain types of nuclear reactors). This is a substantially different animal from nuclear waste

The radiological hazard is minimal, being only slightly above natural background radiation; and slightly over half that of naturally occurring uranium. A number of studies have shown no significant long-term health effects.

The primary hazard with depleted uranium is heavy metal toxicity. DU is particularly bad for this, as it is pyrophoric, and on impact, the surface burns off rather than deforming (keeping the tip of the round sharp enough to effectively penetrate armour, aka "self-sharpening"), with larger fragments also oxidizing rapidly (which is also desirable, as it increased the likelihood of a target vehicle's fuel and/or ammunition exploding), creating a lot of highly toxic uranium oxide.

Interesting side note: It's estimated that for every square mile of soil, there is roughly 4 tons of uranium contained in the top 12 inches.

QFT.

I hope that more people will read luchog's post above, particularly people who think they know what DU is all about.

Nicely done, luchog, puttin' the E into JREF.

DR

 

[ponderingturtle]

Nope. The US and UK have been phasing out the use of DU ammunition since the early part of the decade. The vast majority of the US's stockpiles have been replaced by tungsten-based ammunition. What little DU ammo is left is in the form of low-radiation "Staballoy", alloyed with other metals, such as titanium or molybdenum.

I had heard about that but was not aware it was moving forward at that rate

Despite being phased out as ammunition, DU is still in use as vehicle armour.

It's a byproduct from the standard fissile uranium mining and enrichment process (although it can be used unenriched for certain types of nuclear reactors). This is a substantially different animal from nuclear waste

Look I was trying for a similar level of alarmist insanity as the OP. It was a consious intentional use of the word.

The radiological hazard is minimal, being only slightly above natural background radiation; and slightly over half that of naturally occurring uranium. A number of studies have shown no significant long-term health effects.

Demonstrating that the yellowcake is pretty harmless by itself.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I don't get it.

I suspect it was referring to culinary bombs and yellow cakes.

 

[JoeEllison]

I guess that means Bill Clinton is an effing sucker as well.]

*Shrugs* Sure, why not? Do you think Clinton being wrong makes Bush less wrong?

 

[JoeEllison]

You do realize that having something and aquireing more of it show very different motivations right?

This was known about. I might not have known about it personaly, but it is natural uranium, not enriched uranium.

The inspectors knew about it, the government knew about it, way back in the 1990s. That's why there was no "we found Iraq's nuclear program" announcement six years ago. Now, six years later, this non-news item is sure to be picked up by ignorant Bush supporters as "evidence". You can watch right-wing liars in this very thread try to pretend that this is news, and evidence of... well, something. Evidence that Bush was somehow justified in his Iraq invasion and occupation I guess, but more as a half-hearted attack on "the left" for being right where Bush and his supporters were so profoundly and stupidly wrong.

 

[ponderingturtle]

The inspectors knew about it, the government knew about it, way back in the 1990s. That's why there was no "we found Iraq's nuclear program" announcement six years ago. Now, six years later, this non-news item is sure to be picked up by ignorant Bush supporters as "evidence". You can watch right-wing liars in this very thread try to pretend that this is news, and evidence of... well, something. Evidence that Bush was somehow justified in his Iraq invasion and occupation I guess, but more as a half-hearted attack on "the left" for being right where Bush and his supporters were so profoundly and stupidly wrong.

Yes but I am trying to use their own rationals against them to show that the US used weapons of mass destruction (dirty munitions) against the Iraqi's.

 

[JoeEllison]

Yes but I am trying to use their own rationals against them to show that the US used weapons of mass destruction (dirty munitions) against the Iraqi's.

Yes but you are trying to use reason against fundamentally irrational people. Good luck!

 

[The Painter]

Look I was trying for a similar level of alarmist insanity as the OP. It was a consious intentional use of the word.

Well since you were trying to over play the lack of seriousness of this and you want to scare people with the word "nuclear" you obviously have some kind of agenda. You are no longer to be trusted.

 

[Neally]

*Shrugs* Sure, why not? Do you think Clinton being wrong makes Bush less wrong?

So since Clinton said the same thing doesn't that make the left wingers "effing suckers and willfully ignorant" as well?

 

[JoeEllison]

So since Clinton said the same thing doesn't that make the left wingers "effing suckers and willfully ignorant" as well?

Clinton was a sucker, a liar, and/or willfully ignorant. That doesn't mean jack towards the "left wingers", since it was the progressive blogs who were correct on the issue, while the media and most of the politicians got it wrong.

 

[senorpogo]

interesting Side Note: It's Estimated That For Every Square Mile Of Soil, There Is Roughly 4 Tons Of Uranium Contained In The Top 12 Inches.

Everybody Panic!

 

[BPSCG]

It's a byproduct from the standard fissile uranium mining and enrichment process (although it can be used unenriched for certain types of nuclear reactors). This is a substantially different animal from nuclear waste

The radiological hazard is minimal, being only slightly above natural background radiation; and slightly over half that of naturally occurring uranium. A number of studies have shown no significant long-term health effects.

The primary hazard with depleted uranium is heavy metal toxicity. DU is particularly bad for this, as it is pyrophoric, and on impact, the surface burns off rather than deforming (keeping the tip of the round sharp enough to effectively penetrate armour, aka "self-sharpening"), with larger fragments also oxidizing rapidly (which is also desirable, as it increased the likelihood of a target vehicle's fuel and/or ammunition exploding), creating a lot of highly toxic uranium oxide.

Thanks. Is it fair to say that yellowcake's relationship to depleted uranium is similar to iron ore's relationship to rust? I.E.:

1. Yellowcake is the raw material that you make something useful out of (to the extent that nuclear weapons are "useful"); iron ore is the raw material that you make something useful out of.
2. Depleted uranium is what you have after the useful product in (1) above is no longer able to serve its purpose; rust is what you have after the useful product in (1) above is no longer able to serve its purpose.

Or have I misunderstood?

 

[ponderingturtle]

Well since you were trying to over play the lack of seriousness of this and you want to scare people with the word "nuclear" you obviously have some kind of agenda. You are no longer to be trusted.

Yes I am useing nuclear just like they are useing uranium.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Thanks. Is it fair to say that yellowcake's relationship to depleted uranium is similar to iron ore's relationship to rust? I.E.:

Close. Yellowcake is refined natural uranium, but in a metalic salt state.

Depleted uranium is different than natural urnium as it has had the isotopes needed to make a bomb removed.

So with out any sort of way to isolate the isotopes, this would only make natural uranium, which is slightly more radioactive than depeleted uranium, but seemingly not enough to make it a serious radiological hazard.

1. Yellowcake is the raw material that you make something useful out of (to the extent that nuclear weapons are "useful"); iron ore is the raw material that you make something useful out of.
2. Depleted uranium is what you have after the useful product in (1) above is no longer able to serve its purpose; rust is what you have after the useful product in (1) above is no longer able to serve its purpose.

Or have I misunderstood?[/QUOTE]

And rust is iron ore as well. as an iron oxide that is what you use for ore.

The thing is that with out any way to seperate the isotopes, the only thing you can make with it is metalic uranium which is roughly equivelant to depeated uranium.