Schroeder Debunks William R in Alex Jones WACfest

[leftysergeant]

I just sat through an hour and forty-five minutes of AJ's 911 Truth Rising. Mostly it was about WACers WACing like they usually do. What a pathetic bunch of clowns. They would be amusing, were it not for the dreadful possibility that someone might take them seriously enough to take up arms.

The only thing good I got out of watching it, though, was that I realized that there is no way that Willie could have experience the explosions in the basement before the plane hit.

Willie mentions, best i can tell, two distinct events.

Schroeder saw the firsat plane hit, called it in and respounded to the WTC. He reports seeing human torches obviously just recently set ablze. Then he describes its happening againt. Two blasts. Obviously, they were the same blasts Willie heard.

So that jet fuel did not need to come down the elevator shafts under any extreme pressure to be on location and ready to go boom.

Schroeder mentions two blasts in the lobby. Pecerraro mentions two blasts. Willie mentions two blasts. I see no way they could have been other than the same two blasts.

They happened after the impact, by at least the minimum two minutes that it appears it took for Schoeder to be on station in the tower.

 

[RedIbis]

I'm trying to follow your analysis here. Where was Schroeder when he saw the first plane hit?

Also, why do they have to be the same two blasts Willie heard?

Since Willie reported numerous explosions while he was in the bldg, why can't the blasts Schroeder heard be the ones Willie heard later, after impact?

If Schroeder saw the plane hit, he wasn't in the bldg and wouldn't have experienced the blasts that took place in the basement before the impact of the plane.

 

[leftysergeant]

I'm trying to follow your analysis here. Where was Schroeder when he saw the first plane hit?

Also, why do they have to be the same two blasts Willie heard?

Schroeder was right across the street. The towers fell on his station. Willie only heard two blasts in the basement. Pecerraro only heard to, as I read the accounts. All three men are talking about the same two blasts at the outset.

If Schroeder saw the plane hit, he wasn't in the bldg and wouldn't have experienced the blasts that took place in the basement before the impact of the plane.

Precisely. The blasts Willie experienced occurred a whole lot later than the earliest time they could have occurred by my scenario.

The other blasts that Willie and Schroeder describe were the second aircraft and the collapse of the south tower.

 

[RedIbis]

You are making a huge assumption that if any of these three men reported a pair of explosions they were talking about the same two.

The problem of course is that we're working off of nothing but your recollection about the doc. You might be able to strengthen your case if you use specific references to all of their accounts.

 

[leftysergeant]

They were all within a hundred yards of each other. Nothing to document other than their statements. The only timeline needed is established by Schroeder's observation of an aircraft slamming into the north tower.

Thank you for playing, please try again.

 

[~enigma~]

I don't get it Red, is lying Willie's account the only reason you are a truther? Is that why you can't even bear to see slippery Willie's ever changing story questioned?

 

[RedIbis]

I don't get it Red, is lying Willie's account the only reason you are a truther? Is that why you can't even bear to see slippery Willie's ever changing story questioned?

If you're sincere in finding out why I continue to research 9/11, I suggest you drop the labels and communicate like an adult.

I'm not aware that Willie has changed his story, other than refining a few details, which would be natural over the course of several years of being interviewed.

 

[RedIbis]

Nothing to document other than their statements.

Ok, then document their statements.

 

[~enigma~]

If you're sincere in finding out why I continue to research 9/11, I suggest you drop the labels and communicate like an adult.

I'm not aware that Willie has changed his story, other than refining a few details, which would be natural over the course of several years of being interviewed.

I don't care why you continue to "research" anything and even if I were, your accusation of my using labels and your idiotic statement that I am not communicating like an adult just made me lump you in with the rest of the impotent and immoral truth movement. Thanks for making that clear.

ETA - Nice try at an appeal to emotion though...

 

[RedIbis]

I don't care why you continue to "research" anything and even if I were, your accusation of my using labels and your idiotic statement that I am not communicating like an adult just made me lump you in with the rest of the impotent and immoral truth movement. Thanks for making that clear.

ETA - Nice try at an appeal to emotion though...

So you're questions weren't asked out of curiosity, they were disingenuous and rhetorical.

 

[~enigma~]

So you're questions weren't asked out of curiosity, they were disingenuous and rhetorical.

Not at all but that would be a typical truther spin. I simply asked because I don't understand why you place such apparent "dire importance" that slippery Willie the liars account be never questioned and god forbid proven wrong (which you must have been asleep for). But you can spin that any way you want and I won't threaten you with legal action like slippery Willie the dishonest garbage man does.

 

[R.Mackey]

Schroeder mentions two blasts in the lobby. Pecerraro mentions two blasts. Willie mentions two blasts. I see no way they could have been other than the same two blasts.

They happened after the impact, by at least the minimum two minutes that it appears it took for Schoeder to be on station in the tower.

Interesting hypothesis. I must point out that correlation need not imply causation, i.e. the reference of all three individuals to "two blasts" may be simple coincidence. However, I seem to recall (Gravy probably has it) that one of Mr. Rodriguez's co-workers states the impact itself was inaudible from their location. If so, the actual timing of Mr. Rodriguez's blasts could be some minutes after impact, rather than seconds after as I had always assumed.

I'd call this plausible but unproven, probably unproveable. Not that it matters. The whole idea that somebody would set off kerosene bombs timed to go off with, or even before, the impacts is and always has been mind-bogglingly stupid. What would be the point??

 

[RedIbis]

I'd call this plausible but unproven, probably unproveable. Not that it matters. The whole idea that somebody would set off kerosene bombs timed to go off with, or even before, the impacts is and always has been mind-bogglingly stupid. What would be the point??

Who said anything about kerosene?

 

[Brainster]

Schroeder also repeats the weird story about the dead body in the closet.

 

[leftysergeant]

Nothing wierd, really, about crispy critters in closets. That's where you find a lot of them in a big fire. What it does suggest is that fire spread rather widely through the building through stairways and elevator shafts. Much is made of the fact that elevators ended at various floors, In order for that to work, it seems to me, you must start some from the same floor.

Thus, one or two local elevators may have also transferred fire down to the lobby. I think it was Cacchioli who mentioned seeing a floor around the 24th that looked like it had been fire bombed. An up elevator and a down elevator with their doors open simultaneously on that floor could account for a lot of fuel vapor transfer

 

[Par]

I notice RedIbis has abandoned his defence of Gage’s cardboard box nonsense in favour of affecting moral superiority on this thread. (Perhaps he’ll reply with feigned outrage. It’s possible.)

 

[RKOwens4]

They happened after the impact, by at least the minimum two minutes that it appears it took for Schoeder to be on station in the tower.

Don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but according to Mark Roberts' site, the driver of Engine 10 (Schoeder's engine) radioed at 8:50 asking which tower was on fire and was told it was tower 1. Mark seems to estimate they arrived at 8:51, which sounds about right. Five minutes after the first impact.

http://911stories.googlepages.com/johnschroederofengine10:a911chronology–r

 

[leftysergeant]

That people from the elevators were on fire at the time that Schroeder arrived suggest a very narrow window between their arrival and the blast that set fire to them. Add the time between Schroeder's witnessing the crash, his call to central dispatch and their travel from the station to the tower, and we have at least seven minutes. That's a long time for a clothing fire, even soaked in kerosene, so the probability of the blast occurring before the impact approaches zero.

 

[pomeroo]

If you're sincere in finding out why I continue to research 9/11, I suggest you drop the labels and communicate like an adult.

I'm not aware that Willie has changed his story, other than refining a few details, which would be natural over the course of several years of being interviewed.

Two minor corrections:

You do no research whatever. You couldn't even be bothered to contact a single demolition company when I was ripping your scalp off over your evil movement's "pull it" fraud. Then again, perhaps you did call a few demolition companies, although that remote possibility doesn't quite explain why you simply vanished from the thread that showcases your greatest humiliation. It would appear as though some sort of acknowledgement of defeat is in order.

You are, of course, extremely well aware of the changes in Slippery Willie's ever-changing tale. You were crushed by Mark in a thread devoted to his paper on the subject.

 

[RedIbis]

Two minor corrections:

You do no research whatever. You couldn't even be bothered to contact a single demolition company when I was ripping your scalp off over your evil movement's "pull it" fraud. Then again, perhaps you did call a few demolition companies, although that remote possibility doesn't quite explain why you simply vanished from the thread that showcases your greatest humiliation. It would appear as though some sort of acknowledgement of defeat is in order.

You are, of course, extremely well aware of the changes in Slippery Willie's ever-changing tale. You were crushed by Mark in a thread devoted to his paper on the subject.

Good to see you too, Ron. How's everything going?