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550 tons of Yellowcake removed from Iraq

GreyICE said:
Moreover, there is significant tangible evidence that the inspections were working: No banned weapons, and no facilities for producing banned weapons were found.
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Well, no. IIRC, there were a number of missiles found with ranges beyond what was allowed. And while they were old and probably did not represent part of any large stockpiles, chemical weapons shells were indeed found post-invasion. You are free to downplay the significance of such finds, but really, you're just putting blinkers on if you pretend that they didn't happen at all.

With complete access to the entire country, and total cooperation from the former government
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We never, ever, got total cooperation from Saddam's government on the inspections.

As to the current story about yellowcake, yes, it's not much of a threat, and yes, it's from an old program that did not seem to be active post-GW1. But those aren't the only concerns I had. Given that Iraq's nuclear program was essentially destroyed, why did he still have those stockpiles at all? Why weren't they sold off (to the Canadians, the French, the Russians, whoever) long ago? What purpose did he have for keeping them? There certainly weren't any legitimate uses for the stuff available to him.
 
Ziggurat said:
Well, no. IIRC, there were a number of missiles found with ranges beyond what was allowed. And while they were old and probably did not represent part of any large stockpiles, chemical weapons shells were indeed found post-invasion. You are free to downplay the significance of such finds, but really, you're just putting blinkers on if you pretend that they didn't happen at all.
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In case you forgot, the missiles in question had a range a couple of km too long. The destruction of these missiles was carried out before the Iraq war and witnessed by the inspections teams.

This leaves the decaying chemical munitions from the Iran/Iraq war as an excuse for a war that has killed thousands, displaced millions and cost billions.
 
Ziggurat said:
Well, no. IIRC, there were a number of missiles found with ranges beyond what was allowed. And while they were old and probably did not represent part of any large stockpiles, chemical weapons shells were indeed found post-invasion. You are free to downplay the significance of such finds, but really, you're just putting blinkers on if you pretend that they didn't happen at all.
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Yes, I will continue to downplay the significance of the Al-Samoud II, which had a range of 10 km over the 150 km limit - 40 if you remove the payload (of course at that point its pretty much an expensive tin can, but that's details). And I'll downplay the fact they were destroying them... uh... wait, these facts don't need to be downplayed. The inspectors found the one violation and removed it - even though the violation was minor. That's a far cry from a chemical weapons program.

And then some old abandoned shells dug up with traces of chemical weapons in them that were completely inert they were so old. The biggest danger those posed was that you'd cut yourself on the sharp edges and get an infection, but hey, details, right?
I will continue
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Unfortunately.
We never, ever, got total cooperation from Saddam's government on the inspections.
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Since I cited the sources saying the cooperation was very good, and sources saying Saddam was offering further concessions, do you mind me calling sources on this?

Oh well, doing it anyway.

Sources?
As to the current story about yellowcake, yes, it's not much of a threat, and yes, it's from an old program that did not seem to be active post-GW1. But those aren't the only concerns I had. Given that Iraq's nuclear program was essentially destroyed, why did he still have those stockpiles at all? Why weren't they sold off (to the Canadians, the French, the Russians, whoever) long ago? What purpose did he have for keeping them? There certainly weren't any legitimate uses for the stuff available to him.
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I dunno, they were under sanctions that made it impossible for them to sell much of anything? Sanctions? Remember those? Certainly yellowcake would fall under "Stuff Iraq can't sell. Because of sanctions."

Is there any evidence at all that there was any program in Iraq at the time of the invasion?
 
Ziggurat said:
there were a number of missiles found with ranges beyond what was allowed. And while they were old
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Actually, the SA-2 missiles that UN inspectors discovered and began forcing Iraq to destroy were not all that old. They were developed after the First Gulf War. Iraq claimed they had a range of only 100 km (150 was allowed) but inspectors and other intelligence experts determined their range to be about 180 km. And Iraq had purchased far more engines than needed or allowed with clear intentions to extend the range of the missiles far beyond the allowed limits. The Iraqi Survey Group obtained testimony from missile designers at the Al Kini State Company that Iraq had begun work on converting the SA-2 missiles into ballistic missiles with an intended range of 250km. The Ababil-100 missile had a solid propellant design. It was said to have a range of 140km. The ISG obtained testimony from a variety of Iraqi sources that a proscribed-range version of the Ababil-100 was under development with the goal of producing a missile with a range between 400 to 1000 km.

Furthermore, they found UAVs that had been tested to more than 5 times the allowed range. And documents discovered after the war show that Iraq paid North Korea 10 million dollar for some of their intermediate range Nodong missiles (1000 km plus range) in the months before the invasion. The missile(s) were never delivered and Korea kept the money but Iraq was clearly trying to circumvent the agreement they made to end the first Gulf War.
 
Kestrel said:
In case you forgot, the missiles in question had a range a couple of km too long.
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Tell us ... how do you explain the testimony the ISG obtained from Iraqi scientists that they were developing missiles with ranges far beyond the allowed 150 km? One was to have a range of 250 km and the other between 400 and 1000 km. And how do you explain the fact that only months before the invasion Iraq paid North Korea $10 million dollars for one or more nodong missiles ... with a range of 1000 km. They never got the missiles and NK kept the money but Iraq was clearly trying to violate the agreement they'd signed to end the first Gulf War. Please explain their actions since you seem to think they were totally innocent. :D
 
BeAChooser said:
Tell us ... how do you explain the testimony the ISG obtained from Iraqi scientists that they were developing missiles with ranges far beyond the allowed 150 km? One was to have a range of 250 km and the other between 400 and 1000 km. And how do you explain the fact that only months before the invasion Iraq paid North Korea $10 million dollars for one or more nodong missiles ... with a range of 1000 km. They never got the missiles and NK kept the money but Iraq was clearly trying to violate the agreement they'd signed to end the first Gulf War. Please explain their actions since you seem to think they were totally innocent. :D
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Links? Sources?
 
GreyICE said:
And then some old abandoned shells dug up with traces of chemical weapons in them that were completely inert they were so old. The biggest danger those posed was that you'd cut yourself on the sharp edges and get an infection, but hey, details, right?
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The binary sarin shell that turned up as an IED after the invasion contained about the same amount and potency of sarin as was used in the Tokyo subway attack. Expects have concluded that that amount and quality of sarin was sufficient, if properly distributed, to kill thousands of people. Iraq initially denied ever researching binary sarin weapons. When that lie was exposed, they claimed never to have tested them. When that lie was exposed, they claimed to have destroyed all the shells they ever made. Obviously that was a lie too. How many times do folks like you need to get bitten before you wise up?
 
BeAChooser said:
The binary sarin shell that turned up as an IED after the invasion contained about the same amount and potency of sarin as was used in the Tokyo subway attack. Expects have concluded that that amount and quality of sarin was sufficient, if properly distributed, to kill thousands of people. Iraq initially denied ever researching binary sarin weapons. When that lie was exposed, they claimed never to have tested them. When that lie was exposed, they claimed to have destroyed all the shells they ever made. Obviously that was a lie too. How many times do folks like you need to get bitten before you wise up?
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Links, sources?

All of mine seem to say that you're talking nonsense:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3386357.stm
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20040119/ai_n9684554
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/l...ort/isg-final-report_vol3_cw_key-findings.htm
 
BeAChooser said:
Sure.

http://www.nti.org/e_research/profiles/Iraq/Missile/index.html

http://www.washtimes.com/news/2003/oct/04/20031004-123026-1690r/

http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/PUB842.pdf

See? It wasn't hard to learn the real facts. :D
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Yeah, they were about as expected. Old pre-GW I programs.

The third link was a real shocker, it was entitled:
The North Korean Ballistic Missile Program.

I'm not 100% positive I have the exact location of all the countries down, but I think North Korea is near Iran, not Iraq.

Learn some actual facts:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/l...-report/isg-final-report_vol2_delivery-05.htm
 
GreyICE said:
Yeah, they were about as expected. Old pre-GW I programs.
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I can see that you couldn't be induced to actually read any of the links I provided. So why'd you demand them? They clearly state that the missiles in question were developed AFTER GW I. Or are you illiterate?

GreyICE said:
The third link was a real shocker, it was entitled:
The North Korean Ballistic Missile Program.
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Clearly you were able to download and look at the pdf file but apparently unwilling to actually read it. Because it discusses the fact that Iraq tried to purchase nodong missile just before the invasion. And there are many other sources that discuss this fact. But I guess some people are just unwilling to take their heads out of the ground. Usually they are democrats. :D
 
BeAChooser said:
I can see that you couldn't be induced to actually read any of the links I provided. So why'd you demand them? They clearly state that the missiles in question were developed AFTER GW I. Or are you illiterate?
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Ooh, claims of illiteracy. New. No, I read them. The programs after GW-I were all allegedly in the 'planning' stages, or otherwise unproduced.

The ISG report clearly states that they lacked the technological capacity to produce any of these designs. That was why I added the (clearly unread) link at the end of my post.
Clearly you were able to download and look at the pdf file but apparently unwilling to actually read it. Because it discusses the fact that Iraq tried to purchase nodong missile just before the invasion. And there are many other sources that discuss this fact. But I guess some people are just unwilling to take their heads out of the ground. Usually they are democrats. :D
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Yes, I admit I gave up after you linked me to a pdf about the North Korean missile program. I'm going to link you to a history of the Russian missile program, better read it closely.
 
Kestrel said:
It had been dealt with by putting the material under seal and checking it on a periodic basis.

REPORT ON THE EIGHTEENTH IAEA ON-SITE INSPECTION IN IRAQ UNDER SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTION 687



This report was published on 26 April 1993, so we have known about this for a long time. The seals were still intact when they were broken by US forces during the invasion of Iraq.
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have been verified and are maintained under seal at a single location. Most of this material, in the form of yellow cake, - about one-fifth declared after the Gulf War to have come from indigenous production and four-fifths from external sources - was never included in the pre-war safeguards inspection regime.
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Any guesses on where that 4/5 from external sources came from?
 
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