Are Truthers' accusations against Silverstein based on latent anti-Semitism?

[Confuseling]

No enigma, you didn't understand the original point, and the question has no relation to the context. Sorry. See you later.

 

[~enigma~]

No enigma, you didn't understand the original point, and the question has no relation to the context. Sorry. See you later.

Figured you would run and not answer...

 

[RedIbis]

Quote where he specifically accuses you of being a jew hater.

Follow the link in the OP. Pom admits as much, although he cowardly refers to it as an implication.

Several people, LashL, and others jumped on the opportunity and agreed with this silly charge.

 

[Thunder]

This thread is idiotic.

First of all, Larry Silverstein is a white American, not an Arab semite. He even has a white American sounding name. Larry is a common Christian name in the United States.

Second, Silverstein made the statements he is acussed of making on TV, so Silverstein should be blamed for the comments, not the 9/11 Truth movement.

The people who are blaming the Arabs are the anti-semites.

come off it, if silverstein's last name was "smith" or "johnson", the theories against him wouldnt have the same energy. larry is targeted more because he is a jew...and losers find it fun to accuse jewish landlowners of being sinister and evil money grabbers.

 

[RedIbis]

come off it, if silverstein's last name was "smith" or "johnson", the theories against him wouldnt have the same energy. larry is targeted more because he is a jew...and losers find it fun to accuse jewish landlowners of being sinister and evil money grabbers.

I address this pitiful logic in this thread. In case anyone was wondering if I've made clear my feelings on bigotry, anti-semitism or racism.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111934

 

[~enigma~]

I address this pitiful logic in this thread. In case anyone was wondering if I've made clear my feelings on bigotry, anti-semitism or racism.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111934

Yes...you said anti-semitism is wrong yet you turn a blind eye to the anti-semitism in the truth movement. Why do you want to associate yourself with some vile people?

 

[RedIbis]

Yes...you said anti-semitism is wrong yet you turn a blind eye to the anti-semitism in the truth movement. Why do you want to associate yourself with some vile people?

I don't associate with bigots! It is only your false idea that there is even something called the Truth Movement. That silly fantasy is for only two groups of people: idealistic, hoodiewearing, anarchists and so called debunkers.

Both are equally misguided and equally naive to the fact that researching 9/11and questioning the official accounts does not make you part of any damn movement whatsoever.

 

[tsig]

I could care less about some idiot bigot on the LC forum (which I don't read) or any other forum. What does this have to do with Pomeroo calling me a jew hater and not being able to support his charge with evidence?

It's a bear ain't it, hate one jew and you get called a jew hater.

 

[RedIbis]

It's a bear ain't it, hate one jew and you get called a jew hater.

I've criticized a lot of people. But no one seems to want to answer why my much more scathing criticism of Giuliani is not proof of my anti-Italianism.

I think their obsession with latent anti-semitism is latently anti-semitic.

 

[~enigma~]

I don't associate with bigots! It is only your false idea that there is even something called the Truth Movement.

Ok...whatever you say Herr RedIbis

 

[tsig]

This thread is idiotic.

First of all, Larry Silverstein is a white American, not an Arab semite. He even has a white American sounding name. Larry is a common Christian name in the United States.

Second, Silverstein made the statements he is acussed of making on TV, so Silverstein should be blamed for the comments, not the 9/11 Truth movement.

The people who are blaming the Arabs are the anti-semites.

Silverstein did not make the statement that is a lie from the TM.

 

[Confuseling]

...I think their obsession with latent anti-semitism is latently anti-semitic.

I'm actually almost inclined to agree with you here. Enigma seems to hold that anything done that promotes anti-semitism is in fact latently anti-semitic.

If there's one thing apart from Palestine that causes angst about politicised Jewish and Israeli groups amongst reasonable people it's the insane propensity to label everything anti-semitic when you disagree with it.

By your own logic, Enigma, you appear to be an anti-semite.

 

[tsig]

I address this pitiful logic in this thread. In case anyone was wondering if I've made clear my feelings on bigotry, anti-semitism or racism.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111934

No you have not.

 

[Thunder]

Red- if you were obsessed with calling Guiliani a mafioso..i would indeed think you were anti-italian.

when the truth movemant constantly talks about "european bankers", "dual-citizen zionists", and "mossad false-flags"..one can only conclude there is anti-semitism in the truth movemant.

 

[metamars]

Hey, good ploy! We've all forgotten how this started. Nobody remembers RedIbis wading into waters far over his head in a Flight 93 discussion. I prodded him by commenting that, in the absence of any obvious super-Jews, he would find it difficult to make much progress. Max--bless 'em--baited the trap and Red snatched at the cheese. We've had the usual protracted tap dance from Red and much empty vaporizing from you. No one has yet denounced the large and extremely vocal contingent of Jew-haters in the fantasy movement. We continue to wonder about that (of course, we don't really wonder, but, well, you know what I mean).

Hey, good ploy! Not! The OP makes not a mention of RedIbis, yet that doesn't bother you, since the discussion began in a thread where he commented. We are supposed to believe that this thread really is only about RedIbis' supposed anti-Semitism - not just on your part, but on everybody's part. Is that it?

post 7

I think originally the accusers did it because of his religion and some still do.

Notice the plural, accusers.

post 18

Why do you hate Jews so?

This question directed to me, not RedIbis

post 21

LATENT? They practically wear armbands with swastikas on them.

Notice the word "They". BenBurch does not correct 1337m4n's title to focus on RedIbis.

.
.
.

Etc.


So, not all posters exhibit your obsession with RedIbis. Perhaps it's because they're merely "rationalists", and not "triumphant rationalists". Not all can rise to your height, you know.

 

[metamars]

I'm not the one running away from a simple question.



I can see the point of you rrunning away from the question.

You should be able to see the point of my evading the question, in light of my post 141. Did you miss it?

As for calling this "running away", such a choice of words is quite consistent with your calling me a "coward". You really should stick with it - it suits your character just fine.

If you give me an answer to the quite simple and basic question I would answer any of your questions. Even the goalpost shifting wife beater ones.

Of course, I'm really not interested in the answer to my reciprocal, thought police type questions. They're asked to make it obvious what their nature is - not so much to the "debunkers" to whom they're directed, but to lurkers who might actually mistake innuendo, smearing and sophistry for honest inquiry.

It would be of interest to me to get a serious answer to my questions and suggestions re how one could really determine the extent of anti-Semitism in the WTC 7 aware subgroup of 911 Truthers. By now, of course, I am used to such validation-type questions being ignored or deflected by the "debunking" community. Indeed, I've been thinking of starting a new thread called "The Curious Incuriosity of the Debunkers". You might actually get honorable mention!

I suppose that you're quite content with pomeroo's "Oh, just look at all the garbage in my email box!" method of quantification. (Really, non-quantification. He never did tell us how high a percentage "high" was, as I predicted.) Correct? If you are, then please speak to the analogous situation of bonanza-in-Nigeria emails.

Are you up to it?

See above.

 

[pomeroo]

Incorrect.

When you wrote, "incorrect," you meant, of course, "correct."

In fact, you're helping me prove my point since, as I predicted, you would not state a percentage. (And if you had, you would not produce any evidence for your claim.) You babble about a "high" percentage, but can't tell us how high that is.

Much empty blather. Many Americans eat burgers at least once a week, but I can't tell you an exact percentage. Does that mean that the statement is wrong?

BTW, since "more or less than half of you liars are Jew-haters" is identically the set of {any percentage such that "you liars are Jew-haters"} - { exactly 50% such that "you liars are Jew-haters"}, that means that you have no idea how many "liars" are "Jew-haters", except that it's not exactly 50%. (And, of course, you really don't know whether or not it's exactly 50%, either.)

Which is my point. Your 'arguments' below

Wow! You can say absolutely nothing in many words. When we dispel your smokescreen, we find that a significant percentage of twoofers are Jew-haters. Whether the number is more than or less than half, I don't know.

taken literally, proves nothing to me about the 911 Truth movement, as a whole. We've all gotten emails from some dudes claiming that they have a can't lose business proposition in Nigeria, but only require X dollars to realize their riches. Just what are we supposed to conclude from such emails - that all Nigerians are charlatans? That a "high percentage" of Nigerians are charlatans? Or that any percentage ( except possibly 50% ) could be charlatans?

Tell me, has it ever occurred to you that the person sending such an email might not be a native of Nigeria, at all? This would be analogous to emails being sent by a shill, deliberately smearing Jews, for purposes of disinformation. The ultimate purpose being to allow people like yourself to turn around and smear the 911 Truth Movement.

You really can't think at all, can you? America was attacked on 9/11/01 by jihadists who refer to this country as "The Great Satan." They refer to Israel as "Little Satan." It is not exactly a coincidence that many of the people who are trying to absolve the jihadists of all wrongdoing hate Jews and fantasize that Israel, through some inexplicable form of magic, controls American foreign policy. Necessarily, the 9/11 fantasy movement attracts Jew-haters. This ain't rocket science.

No, actually, it'd be very difficult to demonstrate. In fact, since the same sort of real research that could show, quantitatively, that anti-Semitism is rife in the 911 Truth Movement could also show that it is not, asserting this with real confidence is just as hard as asserting it's opposite. Your standards of proof, though, are so flimsy, that if I was willing to similarly adopt some cheesy criteria, it should be relatively easy to determine this.

It's actually very easy to figure out that many of you liars are anti-Semites. All one needs to do is read the crap churned out by your evil movement.

E.g., I could request that the next newsletter to the membership of the Scholars for 911 Truth and Justice include a questionairre, asking
1) "Are you anti-Semitic?"

and, borrowing from your ludicrous statement earlier

2) "If you believe that the collapse of WTC 7 was via CD, and if you were then informed that Silverstein was not Jewish, would you then reverse your opinion and believe that the WTC 7 collapse was not via CD?"

The results of such a survey* are easy to predict, since even if there was anti-Semitism above 'normal', most people would not want to admit to it.

However, for the shallow of mind, that might find great significance regarding the character of the Nigerian people based upon the crap in their email box, such considerations are besides the point. The bonanza-in-Nigeria emails keep on a-comin', and what further proof could a "rationalist", indeed, a "triumphant rationalist", require? Apparently, for some "triumphant rationalists", no further proof at all.

I have a much better suggestion. Since you must be getting tired bashing all of us "loons" all the time, why don't you write to the Anti-Defamation League, and ask them to sponsor some real research into the CT community, to see if there is some statistically improbable spike in anti-Semitism? Since somebody taking ADL money would probably be prejudiced to deliver what they thought the ADL wanted, extra care would have to be taken to find honest and reputable researchers.

Of course, since science depends upon independent verification, most scientists would chose to wait as the 911 Truther/Anti-Semitism body of research began to accumulate, until a picture might emerge that one could confidently point to and say "the 911 Truth Community is X% more likely to be anti-Semitic than non-Truthers".

If X > 0, that should make you happy, though if X is also less than 5, say, your joy would be greatly diminished.

Although I'm sure that a "triumphant rationalist" like yourself can't imagine this, if the 911 Truth Community was less likely to be anti-Semitic than non-Truthers, you may have to find yourself another hobby.


Funny, but I don't feel embarrassed, at all. How about you?

Nope, not a bit. There is a difference: I don't feel embarrassed because I'm completely correct; you don't feel embarrassed because you're irrational.

* Of course, such a survey lacks a control group. Finding a control group for 2) is probably difficult, but finding a control group for 1) should be relatively easy. I don't think most of the population knows about the collapse of WTC 7.

Yadda-yadda. And in the end, your evil movement teems with Jew-haters.

 

[pomeroo]

And yet for all of this from you, Pom, LashL, and the rest who have latched on to this silly line of thinking, not one of you can quote me making an anti-semitic remark.

This is not so much insultng as illogical. As has been pointed out by meta, how do my criticisms of General Myers or Bush or Cheney square with this supposed anti-semitism?

The longer this goes on, the longer you will prove yourself to be disinterested in logic and reasoning and in your desperation, rely on the most petty and baseless attacks. This tactic of attacking me as a supposed anti-semite is the opposite of critical thinking, the opposite of what this forum is supposed to promote. Meshugganah!

"Come and meet
Those dancing feet..."

You were asked to set the record straight by denouncing the Jew-haters in your evil, mindless movement. You have refused to do so. You have slandered a man without being able to express the nature of his alleged crimes. Many Jew-haters slander this same man because he is a Jew. Again, you refuse to denounce them or explain why you smear an obviously innocent man.

 

[metamars]

Missing the point there as usual.

Honestly, I don't think I did miss the point. Of course, MP is the authority on what he was getting at.

The accusations against Silverstein are that he personally was involved in the planning and execution of a CD of WTC7. Anybody who believed that the collapse of WTC1 and WTC2 was carried out at Silverstein's orders, without even the flimsy and inadequate evidence of the "pull it" quote, would have even less grounds for their suspicion, and hence the likelihood of anti-Semitism as a motivation seems to me even greater.

Ah-h-h, according to the OP, Silverstein is being accused, but falsely based on

the Truth Movement's cherrypicking and persistent harping on Silverstein's "pull it" quote even after it was proven that the term is NOT demolition slang

For this to make any sense, we have to assume that the Truth Movement knows about this, and does not reject it as false or inconsequential (since Silverstein does not perform professional demolitions, himself, and thus a more common sense interpretation is warranted.)

Such unlikely unspoken assumptions don't seem to faze the debunkers. Nevertheless, if you accept them, you are left with the 'inescapable' conclusion that it is the fact that Larry Silverstein is Jewish which causes WTC 7 911 Truthers to keep talking about about the WTC 7 collapse as a CD, and Silverstein as accomplice.

Reduced down to this essential feature - Silverstein's Jewishness - I fail to see the distinction between Silverstein-as-Jewish-leaseholder-of-WTC7 and Silverstein-as-Jewish-leaseholder-of-WTC1/2.

To recap: It's not about CD, it's about whether Silverstein ordered it personally.

Dave

Except that if we are forced to reject "pull it" as implying ordering it personally, then it is about the conviction of CD in a set of buildings that, normally, Silverstein would have most control over. (Well, I suppose that's not true of WTC 7 offices leased to FBI and CIA. National security, and all of that!)

 

[pomeroo]

Let me see if I got this right. Not once did I use any anti semitic remarks when I criticized Silverstein, but somehow I'm secretly anti semitic.

And if by some chance I happen to be Jewish, I'm not really Jewish because Jews aren't as Jewish as they used to be.

And I'm the jew-hater. This is what passes for logic around here?

If you keep ignoring the main point, maybe we'll forget what it is. You baselessly slander a man who happens to be Jewish. You cannot begin to explain what he has done wrong, and you refuse to denounce the Jew-haters in your evil movement.

You can continue to pretend that someone (who?) has accused you of making anti-Semitic statements. As no one here has made such an accusation, you are talking to yourself. There are many Jew-haters in the fantasy movement and they promote nonsense concerning Jews. You have refused to denounce them. Why?