Andrews Air Force Base on 9/11

[roundhead]

I never said the UNIVAC CP-642 did not exist. However, your description of it is way off base. This proves that you have never even looked at a CP-642A/B let alone worked on one.
Ok, I sit corrected, the 1218 was the military version of the 418. Still proves nothing on your part.
Yet you cannot even give a proper description of it.
Yes, why are you intentionally lying?
Nice try to fabricate info. Still waiting for actual proof.

Proper identification of it???

It (the 642)was probably a little better than 6 feet tall, probably about 3.5 feet wide...as i said earlier it looks somewhat like a refrigerator.

The top 18 or so inches are all light bulbs that are representing the registers.

It had if i remember exactly 13 pull out chassis, that held small cards. One whole card could be nothing more than a flip flop, thats how antique they were (even then) They were 32 k, and were cooled by regulated chilled water. The front of the computer had two large doors that swung open, to access the chassis, from the middle outward.Like a pantry would be.

A collateral duty of mine, on the California, was waiting at the head of the ladder into engineering (for a nuke)to fill my 5 gallon jug with distilled water every so often.We werent allowed down there. It sucked because NTDS was one level below CIC.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

9:06 a.m.: Order to halt traffic is expanded to include the entire northeast from Washington to Cleveland. FAA's air traffic control center outside Washington D.C. notifies all air traffic facilities nationwide of the suspected hijacking of American Airlines Flight 11.

Why hasnt NORAD scrambled any fighters to protect Washington D.C. by 9:05? How could they not have? Two airliners have already hit the WTC. Nine minutes ago the transponder on American Airlines Flight 77 was shut off and it made a 180 degree turn and has been heading directly for Washington D.C. for 6 minutes. Perhaps now would be a good time to remember that New York City and Washington D.C. are far and away the top two cities in the United States that would be targeted by terrorists. Why hasnt NORAD scrambled any fighters to protect Washington D.C. by 9:05? Stand Down.

Incorrect. There was no stand down. Indianapolis Center had only notified the FAA of the hijacking of AA77 by 8:56am. NEADS was not told about anything heading towards DC until 9:21am, and that was mistakenly thought to be AA11, so they thought it was inbound from New York. They scramble the fighters at Langley at 9:22am, and the Navy's ATC directs those fighters east out over the ocean.

At 9:34, NEADS is told about AA77, which they do not know is the only jet inbound to DC. AA77 hits the Pentagon at 9:37am.

In short, NEADS could not have scrambled fighters by 9:05; they didn't know anything about any threat to Washington DC until 9:21. Also, just the fact that AA77 lost its transponder signal doesn't mean anything to NEADS; not only are they thinking that AA11 is inbound from New York (they didn't know yet that it was one of the jets that had hit the Twin Towers), but they are orienting themselves towards dealing with that threat, and by your arbitrary 9:05am time, they knew nothing about AA77 yet because it was not showing up on radar. Heck, Indianapolis Center had only figured out that it was a hijacking 9 minutes earlier. Anyway, it was not showing up because the transponder was off, and it was flying in areas without primary radar coverage. Which is something that's been pointed out to you time and time again.

You cannot talk about AA77 being intercepted without considering that the threats prior to it arriving were thought to be coming from New York, and without understanding that it wasn't found on radar until 9:32am. Those are the facts.

9:11 a.m.: The two F-15 Eagles from Otis Air National Guard station in Falmouth; Massachusetts finally make it to NYC and the WTC. So, it takes these two F-15s, which have a top speed of 1875+ MPH, 19 minutes to cover the 153 miles from Otis to the WTC. This means their average flight speed from Otis to the WTC was only 483.2 MPH or just 25.8% of their top speed. A little math exposes these window dressing fighters for what they are. Thank you NORAD for your September 18, 20001 Press Release. Stand Down.

Incorrect again. There was no stand down. As has been pointed out before, the top speed for an fighter jet is for a clean configuration, not for one with external tanks or any externally mounted weapons (i.e. missiles). Plus, regulations specifically placed on military craft prevent supersonic speeds over the continental US.

On top of that, the fighers launched at 8:46am. WTC 1 had already been hit. WTC 2 was hit at 9:03am. Even had the jets arrived on time, they'd have to discriminate between UA175 and all the other legitimate traffic circling both JFK and Newark. It's not like UA175 was the only jet above New York at the time.

9:24 a.m.: The FAA notifies NORAD that American Airlines Flight 77 has been hijacked. The FAA lost contact with American Airlines Flight 77 when the transponder signal stops at 8:56 a.m. -- Why does it take 33 minutes for the FAA to tell NORAD that American Airlines Flight 77 has been hijacked? Impossible. Stand Down.

Incorrect. There was no stand down. Stop and think about the protocols involved. You cite the FAA handoff to the military as if it's the only step in the chain. It is not. The procedure goes from the Air Route Traffic Control Center (ARTCC) controller to the ARTCC supervisor, to the FAA National ARTCC, to the FAA Hijack coordinator at the FAA headquarters in DC, and at that point, those higher ups make a decision on whether to request that the military provide an escort. If they approve, only then do they issue a request to the National Military Command Center (NMCC), and at that point the military has to agree to it too. If they do, then the orders are issued to NORAD through NORAD's chain of command. (Attribution: Gumboot's post laying out the issue of military response to domestic acts)

Why did that procedure take 33 minutes? That you'd have to ask them about. But to assume there was a stand down order is to indulge in fantasy. Given the protocol, you can say that it might have taken that amount of time to get the proper people notified. The timeframe alone is no proof of a stand down in any way.

BTW, small correction: AA77's transponder was turned off at 8:54am, not 8:56.

9:30 a.m.: Two, possibly three F-16 Fighting Falcons code-named Huntress take off from Langley AFB headed at first toward at NYC. A couple of minutes into their mission, according to General Haugen "A person came on the radio and identified themselves as being with the Secret Service" and said, "I want you to protect the White House at all costs." The F-16s laid in a new course and vectored to Washington D.C. Since both Washington D.C. and New York City are both north of Langley, and this happened within a couple of minutes of take-off, this was not a factor in why these F-16 fighters were flying so slow.

Why were these fighters headed to NYC when American Airlines Flight 77 has been headed directly for Washington D.C. for the last 31 minutes, and with their communication and transponder turned off for 34 minutes? There are no airliners headed for NYC or anywhere else with their communication and transponders turned off. Also, at 9:25 air traffic controllers have already informed the United States Secret Service in Washington D.C. that American Airlines Flight 77 is approaching them very fast. So why are these F-16s first flying toward NYC? Stand Down.

Incorrect. Again, no stand down.

First of all, you make a mistake in saying where the Langley fighters were sent to. Those fighters were directed east over the ocean to a holding and training area, not towards New York. The Otis fighters were the ones sent to New York, and they were holding over Long Island by this time. When NEADS caught the mistake with the Langley fighters, they sent them to Baltimore. Why they chose that over DC, I'm not sure, but I can guess: Take a look at a map. And also remember that they thought the inbound track was AA11, not AA77, which was last caught on radar over New York. Baltimore lies between New York City and Washington DC. It's not a stretch to presume that they were instructing the jets to intercept the flight they believed was inbound from New York before it got to DC.

On top of that, by saying "There are no airliners headed for NYC or anywhere else with their communication and transponders turned off", you're misrepresenting the events of that day. As noted above, not only were they not sent to New York, they were sent to intercept a flight NEADS thought was coming from New York.

And for the umpteeth time, no, they did NOT know that Flight 77 was heading directly for Washington DC. The NORAD tapes very clearly and definitively show this. They thought the flight was AA11. Flight 77 was not picked up by primary radar until Dulles ATCs saw them at 9:32. Also, you make a mistake in saying "at 9:25 air traffic controllers have already informed the United States Secret Service in Washington D.C. that American Airlines Flight 77 is approaching them very fast". That timing is incorrect. Dulles and Reagan International ATC's did not notify the Secret Service after 9:32.

-------
This response is long enough already. I'm going to split this up into several parts. This ends this section.

 

[lapman]

We used the yuk 7 toward the end of my enlistment in MY rating. I was told it was ALSO used on the F14.

I highly doubt that. You still didn't check your facts before posting it.

The 642 used donut memory for it core memory. And thin film memory for what was called it "control" memory.

You can't get anything straight. It's called Magnetic Core memory. Sheeze Get your facts straight.

256 designated bytes per second back then. The tapes drives were mighty antique.

Wrong again. Bps is bytes per second, bps is bits per second. Either way, tape drives, even back then, were not designated by their transfer speed. I've been working with computers for 30 years starting with the original Commodore 2001 PET, with calculator keyboard.

 

[roundhead]

Incorrect. There was no stand down. Indianapolis Center had only notified the FAA of the hijacking of AA77 by 8:56am. NEADS was not told about anything heading towards DC until 9:21am, and that was mistakenly thought to be AA11, so they thought it was inbound from New York. They scramble the fighters at Langley at 9:22am, and the Navy's ATC directs those fighters east out over the ocean.

At 9:34, NEADS is told about AA77, which they do not know is the only jet inbound to DC. AA77 hits the Pentagon at 9:37am.

In short, NEADS could not have scrambled fighters by 9:05; they didn't know anything about any threat to Washington DC until 9:21. Also, just the fact that AA77 lost its transponder signal doesn't mean anything to NEADS; not only are they thinking that AA11 is inbound from New York (they didn't know yet that it was one of the jets that had hit the Twin Towers), but they are orienting themselves towards dealing with that threat, and by your arbitrary 9:05am time, they knew nothing about AA77 yet because it was not showing up on radar. Heck, Indianapolis Center had only figured out that it was a hijacking 9 minutes earlier. Anyway, it was not showing up because the transponder was off, and it was flying in areas without primary radar coverage. Which is something that's been pointed out to you time and time again.

You cannot talk about AA77 being intercepted without considering that the threats prior to it arriving were thought to be coming from New York, and without understanding that it wasn't found on radar until 9:32am. Those are the facts.



Incorrect again. There was no stand down. As has been pointed out before, the top speed for an fighter jet is for a clean configuration, not for one with external tanks or any externally mounted weapons (i.e. missiles). Plus, regulations specifically placed on military craft prevent supersonic speeds over the continental US.

On top of that, the fighers launched at 8:46am. WTC 1 had already been hit. WTC 2 was hit at 9:03am. Even had the jets arrived on time, they'd have to discriminate between UA175 and all the other legitimate traffic circling both JFK and Newark. It's not like UA175 was the only jet above New York at the time.



Incorrect. There was no stand down. Stop and think about the protocols involved. You cite the FAA handoff to the military as if it's the only step in the chain. It is not. The procedure goes from the Air Route Traffic Control Center (ARTCC) controller to the ARTCC supervisor, to the FAA National ARTCC, to the FAA Hijack coordinator at the FAA headquarters in DC, and at that point, those higher ups make a decision on whether to request that the military provide an escort. If they approve, only then do they issue a request to the National Military Command Center (NMCC), and at that point the military has to agree to it too. If they do, then the orders are issued to NORAD through NORAD's chain of command. (Attribution: Gumboot's post laying out the issue of military response to domestic acts)

Why did that procedure take 33 minutes? That you'd have to ask them about. But to assume there was a stand down order is to indulge in fantasy. Given the protocol, you can say that it might have taken that amount of time to get the proper people notified. The timeframe alone is no proof of a stand down in any way.

BTW, small correction: AA77's transponder was turned off at 8:54am, not 8:56.



Incorrect. Again, no stand down.

First of all, you make a mistake in saying where the Langley fighters were sent to. Those fighters were directed east over the ocean to a holding and training area, not towards New York. The Otis fighters were the ones sent to New York, and they were holding over Long Island by this time. When NEADS caught the mistake with the Langley fighters, they sent them to Baltimore. Why they chose that over DC, I'm not sure, but I can guess: Take a look at a map. And also remember that they thought the inbound track was AA11, not AA77, which was last caught on radar over New York. Baltimore lies between New York City and Washington DC. It's not a stretch to presume that they were instructing the jets to intercept the flight they believed was inbound from New York before it got to DC.

On top of that, by saying "There are no airliners headed for NYC or anywhere else with their communication and transponders turned off", you're misrepresenting the events of that day. As noted above, not only were they not sent to New York, they were sent to intercept a flight NEADS thought was coming from New York.

And for the umpteeth time, no, they did NOT know that Flight 77 was heading directly for Washington DC. The NORAD tapes very clearly and definitively show this. They thought the flight was AA11. Flight 77 was not picked up by primary radar until Dulles ATCs saw them at 9:32. Also, you make a mistake in saying "at 9:25 air traffic controllers have already informed the United States Secret Service in Washington D.C. that American Airlines Flight 77 is approaching them very fast". That timing is incorrect. Dulles and Reagan International ATC's did not notify the Secret Service after 9:32.

-------
This response is long enough already. I'm going to split this up into several parts. This ends this section.

In short, follow exactly the many times changed official story, and that's that. Boy, to have a listen to those ATC tapes that were destroyed.

I give you that you describe official events nicely.

My issue is that, in lieu of all the irregularities, i have zero reason to believe it, in fact suspect EVEN the times here are embellished, and even swallowing these times whole, they still leave plenty of doubt, to be kind about it.

Throw in the coincidence of the war games that morning, and i grant you the confusion that must have provided, it doesnt paint a plausible picture.

I guess i am one, having been in the service, that is well aware of the professionalism and skill set our military has.

To say a plane can fly around in our airspace for that long of time (77) with the history that morning of impacts and obvious threats going on, is simply unbelievable to me, and will stay that way.

Scepticism of the Govt is healthy, a democracy mandates this. This Govt has with past actions given me even more reason.
All one has to go on to judge someone is past performance. Based on the performance of this administration, its unlikely they arent involved in 9/11. In fact its highly likely.

 

[lapman]

Sorry for the derailment, back to the OP

Throw in the coincidence of the war games that morning, and i grant you the confusion that must have provided, it doesnt paint a plausible picture.

Yet you cannot provide a single piece of evidence that anything but the scope of the hijackings themselves caused any confusion at all.

I guess i am one, having been in the service, that is well aware of the professionalism and skill set our military has.

Your supposed service is questionable at best. Despite their professionalism and skill, when placed in a situation that they have not trained for, confusion easily sets in. Of course, your going to post your, "they trained for this exact scenario" lie in 3..2..1..

To say a plane can fly around in our airspace for that long of time (77) with the history that morning of impacts and obvious threats going on, is simply unbelievable to me, and will stay that way.

You also think that radar can see everything and that the radar operators tagged 77. You have yet to provide and proof of this. It would be in the NORAD tapes. You are forgetting that 77 was not the only aircraft that they thought was a threat. There were several false alarms that went off that day.

 

[A-Train]

Its hard not to come to the conclusion (when the above information is considered, along with the testimony of Mineta involving an incoming plane, and Cheney's baffling statements regarding it)that a military standown wasnt ordered, and likely by Cheney himself, at least as regards flight 77.

Roundhead,

You are correct that it is impossible to not to come to the conclusion that there was a standdown. But it is unlikely that the orders for the standdown came from Cheney-- or that there were even any orders at all.

All hijacked planes were within the NEADS sector of NORAD. That is no coincidence. Any scramble order responding to any of the four hijacked planes had to be issued from NEADS officers in their bunker in Rome, NY. By simply having control of this one link in the communications channel, the conspirators could assure themselves that no fighters would be successfully scrambled to any hijacked plane, and that those planes could succeed in reaching their targets. Thus, no need for any standdown "orders" from Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, or anyone else. And no need for any high-profile figure in the Bush administration to have to make very public and awkward orders to standdown military aircraft.

That explains why there were no fighters scrambled from Andrews. NEADS simply issued no such orders-- or, more correctly, if such orders were given, they were never relayed to the actual pilots in their planes. That also explains why no fighter pilots have come forward to suggest a standdown. They were never ordered to standdown; they were either given delayed orders to scramble (Otis), or bogus orders to fly the wrong way (Langley), or no orders at all (Andrews). Presto: a standdown with no standdown order.

Meanwhile the recordings of the personnel at NEADS handling the fighters at the crucial times have mysteriously disappeared.

"Because of a technical issue, there are no NEADS recordings available of the NEADS senior weapons director and weapons director technician position responsible for the Otis scramble..."
9/11 Commission Report pp. 459

 

[ElMondoHummus]

In short, follow exactly the many times changed official story, and that's that. Boy, to have a listen to those ATC tapes that were destroyed.

I give you that you describe official events nicely.

My issue is that, in lieu of all the irregularities, i have zero reason to believe it, in fact suspect EVEN the times here are embellished, and even swallowing these times whole, they still leave plenty of doubt, to be kind about it.

Throw in the coincidence of the war games that morning, and i grant you the confusion that must have provided, it doesnt paint a plausible picture.

I guess i am one, having been in the service, that is well aware of the professionalism and skill set our military has.

To say a plane can fly around in our airspace for that long of time (77) with the history that morning of impacts and obvious threats going on, is simply unbelievable to me, and will stay that way.

Scepticism of the Govt is healthy, a democracy mandates this. This Govt has with past actions given me even more reason.
All one has to go on to judge someone is past performance. Based on the performance of this administration, its unlikely they arent involved in 9/11. In fact its highly likely.

That is one long argument from incredulity with zero supporting evidence. And you keep asserting that "the government" knew about Flight 77 the whole time it was hijacked. You say that - again, no surprise - without providing any real evidence for that claim. No, the Canadian-US Defense Relations link does not cut it; there is no information in that doc that contradicts anything we've been saying about primary radar coverage, how the FAA handles hijackings, or how NORAD is supposed to respond to threats originating within the continental US borders.

The fact of the matter is that, regardless of your qualifications, you've yet to assemble a coherent argument supporting your stance that there was a stand down. All of the "anomalies" you've pointed out have answers; I've given quite a few of them. That you choose not to repond most of them, and offer poor responses to others - for example, the Canadian-US link you continue to provide, which not only doesn't prove any such tracking outside the ADIZ, but specifically mentions a posture indicating threads from outside the us (the section I'm referring to says "The North Warning System (NWS) provides surveillance of potential attack routes via Arctic airspace") - demonstrates that you do not know enough about the events of that day to correctly conclude that such a stand-down order is given. You've yet to acknowledge anything about the protocols between the civilians and military, and you continually ignore the fact that AA77 had flown through an area devoid of primary radar coverage. In short, to make your arguments, you resort to incomplete data and misrepresentations. That's a terrible argument.

Perhaps you can at some point address the answers we've given you, instead of making charges about a changing official story - as if it's a crime to correct mistakes when they're discovered - or the destroyed ATC tapes (which matter little, as enough information is available from the NORAD tapes to understand what occurred that day).

Talking about doubt, or stand down orders in the absence of proof, is spinning fantasy. Try dealing with the reality of the events. You have yet to do so.

 

[lapman]

Scepticism of the Govt is healthy, a democracy mandates this.

Thre is nothing wrong wiith skepticism at all. However, you go way beyond healthy skepticism.

This Govt has with past actions given me even more reason.
All one has to go on to judge someone is past performance. Based on the performance of this administration, its unlikely they arent involved in 9/11. In fact its highly likely.

This only shows that you are using the 9/11 conspiracy fantasies to justify your hatred of the government. There is nothing that this administration did in the 8 months prior to 9/11 that would implicate it. Yes, BushCo has used the tragedy to further his agenda. That does not mean that he manufatured it. You seem to be unable to understand that.

 

[SpitfireIX]

I assume by your comments you have never read the book. BTW, Publishers weekly doesnt agree with you at all.

I've read the book, and I have a BA in American history. Stinnett's claims are utter garbage, and his knowledge of historical methodology is laughable.

As for PW, the editors are not professional historians, and, as noted, their job is to promote books, rather than to give unbiased reviews.

A couple of real, comprehensive reviews:

Prof. Larry Schweikart, Department of History University of Dayton.

Phil Jacobsen, US Navy cryptologist during World War II.

Two thumbs down^TM.

My last post on the subject. If you wish to continue discussing Stinnett's claims, please start a new thread, but understand that no reasonable person is going to uncritically accept those claims after reading the linked reviews.

 

[pomeroo]

I can't keep you guys straight!

Anyway, Stinnet is now the tool of these folks who still can't let go of FDR's New Deal programs. The same group has been promoting a series of books trying to destroy FDR's legacy - some of them outright calling him a Communist trying to save the USSR.

You'd be amazed at how lunacy dovetails. I have mentioned that I came to debunking through a libertarian discussion forum. One of the biggest 9/11 screwballs was a nut who insisted that FDR was a comminist.

 

[tsig]

In short, follow exactly the many times changed official story, and that's that. Boy, to have a listen to those ATC tapes that were destroyed.

I give you that you describe official events nicely.

My issue is that, in lieu of all the irregularities, i have zero reason to believe it, in fact suspect EVEN the times here are embellished, and even swallowing these times whole, they still leave plenty of doubt, to be kind about it.

Throw in the coincidence of the war games that morning, and i grant you the confusion that must have provided, it doesnt paint a plausible picture.

I guess i am one, having been in the service, that is well aware of the professionalism and skill set our military has.

To say a plane can fly around in our airspace for that long of time (77) with the history that morning of impacts and obvious threats going on, is simply unbelievable to me, and will stay that way.

Scepticism of the Govt is healthy, a democracy mandates this. This Govt has with past actions given me even more reason.
All one has to go on to judge someone is past performance. Based on the performance of this administration, its unlikely they arent involved in 9/11. In fact its highly likely.

Your belief or lack thereof does not change reality.

 

[pomeroo]

Invaluable 911myths.com

LastChild/roundhead has been provided with this link many times and is incapable of reading any of the articles. Others might be interested:

http://911myths.com/html/stand_down.html

 

[tsig]

Roundhead,

You are correct that it is impossible to not to come to the conclusion that there was a standdown. But it is unlikely that the orders for the standdown came from Cheney-- or that there were even any orders at all.

All hijacked planes were within the NEADS sector of NORAD. That is no coincidence. Any scramble order responding to any of the four hijacked planes had to be issued from NEADS officers in their bunker in Rome, NY. By simply having control of this one link in the communications channel, the conspirators could assure themselves that no fighters would be successfully scrambled to any hijacked plane, and that those planes could succeed in reaching their targets. Thus, no need for any standdown "orders" from Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, or anyone else. And no need for any high-profile figure in the Bush administration to have to make very public and awkward orders to standdown military aircraft.

That explains why there were no fighters scrambled from Andrews. NEADS simply issued no such orders-- or, more correctly, if such orders were given, they were never relayed to the actual pilots in their planes. That also explains why no fighter pilots have come forward to suggest a standdown. They were never ordered to standdown; they were either given delayed orders to scramble (Otis), or bogus orders to fly the wrong way (Langley), or no orders at all (Andrews). Presto: a standdown with no standdown order.

Meanwhile the recordings of the personnel at NEADS handling the fighters at the crucial times have mysteriously disappeared.

So you think all the fighter pilots are stupid.

 

[SDC]

Oh, good; A-Train. Now I guess we find out that the relevant Air force officers, or stations, or units, were infiltrated by Jews whose goal was to facilitate the Israeli-led hijacking of the planes.

Just a guess.

 

[A-Train]

So you think all the fighter pilots are stupid.

No. I'm sure they're really smart when it comes to flying their planes. I'm just saying that when these pilots say "there was no standdown..." what they mean is they were never ordered to standdown. They were never given an order to not do anything. They were simply given no orders at all. And if you're a USAF pilot, you don't do anything without orders, no matter how badly you may want to.

 

[A-Train]

Oh, good; A-Train. Now I guess we find out that the relevant Air force officers, or stations, or units, were infiltrated by Jews whose goal was to facilitate the Israeli-led hijacking of the planes.

If the scenario you are suggesting is true, it wouldn't be the first time someone in the upper levels of the US Military used his position to benefit Israel.

"Jonathan Jay Pollard, an intelligence analyst working in the U.S. Naval Investigative Service’s Anti-Terrorist Alert Center, systematically stole highly sensitive security secrets from almost every major intelligence-gathering agency in the United States. Over the course of eighteen months in the mid 1980s, he took and subsequently sold to Israel more than one million pages of classified material, enough to fill a six-by-ten-foot room stacked six feet high. No other spy in the history of the United States has stolen so many secrets, so highly classified, in such a short period of time. Ronald J. Olive, the author of this book was the assistant special agent in charge of counterintelligence in the Washington office of the Naval Investigative Service who led the whirlwind investigation against Pollard. Olive interrogated Pollard and garnered the confession that led to his arrest in November 1985 and eventual life sentence."
http://www.amazon.com/Capturing-Jonathan-Pollard-Notorious-American/dp/1591146526

 

[tsig]

No. I'm sure they're really smart when it comes to flying their planes. I'm just saying that when these pilots say "there was no standdown..." what they mean is they were never ordered to standdown. They were never given an order to not do anything. They were simply given no orders at all. And if you're a USAF pilot, you don't do anything without orders, no matter how badly you may want to.

So they have no brains beyond their manual skills in flying a plane?

How easily you slip into the skin of a USAF pilot. Fantasize much?

Try reality it's harder but more rewarding.

We have cookies

 

[lapman]

No. I'm sure they're really smart when it comes to flying their planes. I'm just saying that when these pilots say "there was no standdown..." what they mean is they were never ordered to standdown. They were never given an order to not do anything. They were simply given no orders at all. And if you're a USAF pilot, you don't do anything without orders, no matter how badly you may want to.

So you're under the false impression that all USAF pilots are on standby to run to their fully armed aircraft in a moments notice like in the WWII movies. As been shown many times, protection of the airspace over the continental US is an ANG function. The two closest bases that had aircraft at the ready were called after the ATC broke protocol and directly notified NEADS which aircraft were hijacked. Twoofer have the false notion that NORAD was looking for aircraft to intercept and tagged the 3 aircraft when their transponders were put on standby and should have immediately vectored fighters to them to shoot them down without orders. No twoofer has ever produced any evidence to support that false notion.

 

[Drudgewire]

If the scenario you are suggesting is true, it wouldn't be the first time someone in the upper levels of the US Military used his position to benefit Israel.

And just like the point of this thread is security measures post-9/11 have no relevance to how we reacted on that day, what happened with Pollard has no bearing on the security measures today that were a direct result of his actions.

Pollard got a life sentence, he's in his 24th year of confinement (the first seven of which were spent in solitary). Sort of goes against any collusion between the two governments theories.

Besides, selling secrets to a country is a far cry from being able to set policy at their bidding. That's so beyond apples and oranges, it's more like apples and concrete.

 

[roundhead]

I highly doubt that. You still didn't check your facts before posting it.
You can't get anything straight. It's called Magnetic Core memory. Sheeze Get your facts straight.
Wrong again. Bps is bytes per second, bps is bits per second. Either way, tape drives, even back then, were not designated by their transfer speed. I've been working with computers for 30 years starting with the original Commodore 2001 PET, with calculator keyboard.

Sounds like i was working on them before you. Core memory is what somebody like me who worked on that stuff would call it (and if you know ANYTHING) you are aware of that.Your probably also aware its wierd to have thin film in the same box. Core memory, X and Y axis, brings back OLD memories.


I Worked for Wang upon getting out, till 1990. I friggin hate computers, and am in a completely unrelated these days.
Frankly i cant believe i remember what i remember lol