Andrews Air Force Base on 9/11

[roundhead]

From the 9/11 visibility project:

Sitting on the Andrews ramp just 10 miles away, were two fully armed and fueled supersonic interceptors tasked with protecting the capitol from airborne terrorist threats on 15 minutes' notice!


Can somebody kindly show me information showing this statement to be a lie??


Or why these planes werent at full speed on 9/11:

Nearly half-an-hour after receiving the belated order to scramble, two Falcons coasted in over the burning Pentagon. Slowed down to just 410 mph, it had taken the 1,500 mph-capable fighters 19 minutes to cover the 130 miles from Virginia. It should have taken just over seven minutes to reach the Pentagon - at about the time Flight 77 was making a predatory circle overhead. [NORAD, Sep 18, 2001; USAF]

Or why these guys werent vectored in at full speed"

With no other bogeys on eastern seaboard scopes, air combat doctrine dictates that the two unemployed Otis F-15s already in the area be redirected to "honor the threat" of an incoming flying bomb, 330 miles out. Even loafing along, the fighters would have more than 20 minutes to confront Flight 77 before it neared the Pentagon.

Instead, Pentagon professionals defending their country's nerve centers waited more than an hour after watching Flight 11 go rogue - including 30 critical minutes after Flight 77 turned abruptly toward them and the nearby White House - before scrambling two F-16's out of Langley Air Force Base to protect the capitol.



It stinks to high heaven, and anybody that doesnt question why any possible interceptors werent flown wide open that morning should be ashamed of themselves.

I know as a veteran i am, and find it impossible to believe this comedy of lies.

Supporting the official story is, in my patriotic mind, treasonous.

 

[bio]

Yes, it is classic stupidity by an ineducable twoofer.

They were, as has been explained hundreds of times, talking about Flight 93, which unbeknownst to anyone present, had already crashed. There was no plane headed toward Washington, D.C. The orders were the shoot-down orders Cheney had received from Bush. If Cheney was allowing a hijacked (uh, by whom?) plane to crash into a government building, he was publicly confessing his complicity in a monstrous crime. No reporter anywhere in the world smelled a story here.

Give it up!

According to 9/11 Commission “vice president arrived in the room shortly before 10:00, perhaps at 9:58.” 9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004 pp.40
The room is the the bunker under the white house (where Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta saw him already at 9:26).

... but Flight 93 crashed at 10:06.

Do you have a problem with the timing?
How do you interpret the sentence “The plane is 50 miles out.” The plane is 50 miles out of ...?

 

[roundhead]

Just wanted to point out the correctness of the bolded part of this post; good job, roundhead!

My bad

 

[bio]

Bio and roundhead, if Andrews is so critical and so poised to defend the Capitol at a moment's notice, why does Bio's own quote prove that it would take them 30 mins to an hour to launch a capable jet?

About what are you writing about?

my post was:

after the second crash, everybody knew: America is under attack. A lot commanders ringed the NEADS, offering planes:

9:03 am: From Syracuse, New York, a commander of the 174th Fighter Wing of the New York Air National Guard calls and tells NEADS commander Robert Marr: “Give me ten [minutes] and I can give you hot guns. Give me 30 [minutes] and I’ll have heat-seeker [missiles]. Give me an hour and I can give you slammers [Amraams].” Aviation Week and Space Technology, 6/3/2002; News 10 Now, 9/12/2006

Do you really think seriously, that the Andrews Air Force Base was just slower than the base in Syracuse? Andrews Air Force Base protected the white house and the pentagon, so I can assume, that Andrews Air Force Base must have been faster than other bases, or?

However, according to another account, NORAD does not accept the offers until about an hour later. Toledo Blade, 12/9/2001

The right question would be: Why did NEADS not accept the offer?

 

[johnny karate]

Personal Incredulity: It's not just for breakfast anymore!

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Normally, I hate quoting full posts here to rebut nonsense. But since some thread participants insist on using their misperceptions in place of real-world info, I will break my rule. Here's NORAD's response, laid out in full by Gumboot:

The following is a timeline of the NORAD response to the hijackings on 9/11, as based on the transcripts from over 30 hours of recordings inside the NORAD command centre.

All times are in Eastern Daylight Time

0759 AA11 departs Logan International Airport

0813 AA11 is hijacked. Short after its transponder is turned off

0814 UA175 departs Logan International Airport

0820 AA77 departs Washington Dulles International Airport

0820 AA11 turns off its IFF (Identify Friend-or-Foe) beacon and begins deviating from its scheduled flight path

0824 AA11 makes a 100 degree turn and heads for New York City

0837 Boston Centre notifies NEADS of the hijacking of AA11 and requests an aircraft scramble. This is the first incident of the morning.

08:37:52
BOSTON CENTER: Hi. Boston Center T.M.U. [Traffic Management Unit], we have a problem here. We have a hijacked aircraft headed towards New York, and we need you guys to, we need someone to scramble some F-16s or something up there, help us out.
POWELL: Is this real-world or exercise?
BOSTON CENTER: No, this is not an exercise, not a test.

0838 The two F-15s on alert status at Otis ANGB (Air National Guard Base) are put on “Battle Stations” (pilots enter their aircraft and await the signal to launch)

0839 NEADS contact Boston Centre and discover they do not know where AA11 is (because the aircraft’s transponder has been turned off).

08:39:58
WATSON: It’s the inbound to J.F.K.?
BOSTON CENTER: We—we don’t know.
WATSON: You don’t know where he is at all?
BOSTON CENTER: He’s being hijacked. The pilot’s having a hard time talking to the—I mean, we don’t know. We don’t know where he’s goin’. He’s heading towards Kennedy. He’s—like I said, he’s like 35 miles north of Kennedy now at 367 knots. We have no idea where he’s goin’ or what his intentions are.
WATSON: If you could please give us a call and let us know—you know any information, that’d be great.
BOSTON CENTER: Okay. Right now, I guess we’re trying to work on—I guess there’s been some threats in the cockpit. The pilot—
WATSON: There’s been what?! I’m sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Threat to the … ?
BOSTON CENTER: We’ll call you right back as soon as we know more info.

0842 UA93 departs Newark International Airport

0844 UA 175 is hijacked

0844 Despite having no coordinates for intercept, NEADS decide to launch the Otis aircraft anyway.

08:44:59
FOX: M.C.C. [Mission Crew Commander], I don’t know where I’m scrambling these guys to. I need a direction, a destination—
NASYPANY: O.K., I’m gonna give you the Z point [coordinate]. It’s just north of—New York City.
FOX: I got this lat long, 41-15, 74-36, or 73-46.
NASYPANY: Head ‘em in that direction.
FOX: Copy that.

0846 AA11 hits the North Tower of the World Trade Centre

0846 The stoplight at the Alert Barn on Otis ANGB turns from red to green, and the two F-15s taxi out to the runway.

0851 Boston Centre notifies NEADS that an aircraft has flown into the WTC. NEADS immediately call New York Centre, and discover they do not yet know about the incident. This is the second aircraft incident of the morning (NEADS do not know it is AA11).

ROUNTREE: A plane just hit the World Trade Center.
WATSON: What?
ROUNTREE: Was it a 737?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (background): Hit what?
WATSON: The World Trade Center—
DOOLEY: Who are you talking to? [Gasps.]
WATSON: Oh!
DOOLEY: Get—pass—pass it to them—
WATSON: Oh my God. Oh God. Oh my God.
ROUNTREE: Saw it on the news. It’s—a plane just crashed into the World Trade Center.
DOOLEY: Update New York! See if they lost altitude on that plane altogether.

Watson places a call to civilian controllers at New York Center.

WATSON: Yes, ma’am. Did you just hear the information regarding the World Trade Center?
NEW YORK CENTER: No.
WATSON: Being hit by an aircraft?
NEW YORK CENTER: I’m sorry?!
WATSON: Being hit by an aircraft.
NEW YORK CENTER: You’re kidding.
WATSON: It’s on the world news.

0852 UA175 turns off course and fails to respond to communication. New York Centre knows the aircraft has been hijacked.

0852 NEADS decide to direct the Otis fighters to New York City anyway.

08:52:40
NASYPANY: Send ‘em to New York City still. Continue! Go!
NASYPANY: This is what I got. Possible news that a 737 just hit the World Trade Center. This is a real-world. And we’re trying to confirm this. Okay. Continue taking the fighters down to the New York City area, J.F.K. area, if you can. Make sure that the F.A.A. clears it— your route all the way through. Do what we gotta do, okay? Let’s press with this. It looks like this guy could have hit the World Trade Center.

0854 AA77 is hijacked and its transponder is turned off. Indianapolis Centre loses contact with the aircraft and assumes it has crashed.

0855 Confusion begins to arise as to whether the aircraft that hit the WTC was AA11. Confirmation is required from the airline company (who independently track their aircraft), however American Airlines does not confirm the fate of AA11. Airlines routinely go into “information lockdown” when a crisis occurs.

08:55:18
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): Yeah, he crashed into the World Trade Center.
ROUNTREE: That is the aircraft that crashed into the World Trade Center?
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): Yup. Disregard the—disregard the tail number [given earlier for American 11].
ROUNTREE: Disregard the tail number? He did crash into the World Trade Center?
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): That’s—that’s what we believe, yes.

But an unidentified male trooper at NEADS overhears the exchange and raises a red flag.

08:56:31
MALE NEADS TECH: I never heard them say American Airlines Flight 11 hit the World Trade Center. I heard it was a civilian aircraft.

Dooley, the ID desk’s master sergeant, takes the phone from Rountree to confirm for herself, and the story veers off course …

DOOLEY (to Boston): Master Sergeant Dooley here. We need to have—are you giving confirmation that American 11 was the one—
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): No, we’re not gonna confirm that at this time. We just know an aircraft crashed in and …
DOOLEY: You—are you—can you say—is anyone up there tracking primary on this guy still?
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): No. The last [radar sighting] we have was about 15 miles east of J.F.K., or eight miles east of J.F.K. was our last primary hit. He did slow down in speed. The primary that we had, it slowed down below—around to 300 knots.
DOOLEY: And then you lost ‘em?
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): Yeah, and then we lost ‘em.

0856 Indianapolis Centre notify the FAA that AA77 has been hijacked (realizing it did not crash).

0903 NEADS are notified of a second hijacking. (3rd incident of the morning).

09:03:17
ROUNTREE: They have a second possible hijack!

0903 UA175 hits the South Tower of the WTC. A number of NEADS personnel witness it live on CNN.

0907 FAA civilian controllers direct the Otis fighters to enter a holding pattern over Long Island. They are worried about the fighters colliding with civilian aircraft in the densely packed airspace over New York.
NEADS weapon controllers are not happy.

09:07:20
NASYPANY: Okay, Foxy. Plug in. I want to make sure this is on tape.… This is what—this is what I foresee that we probably need to do. We need to talk to F.A.A. We need to tell ‘em if this stuff’s gonna keep on going, we need to take those fighters on and then put ‘em over Manhattan, O.K.? That’s the best thing. That’s the best play right now. So, coordinate with the F.A.A. Tell ‘em if there’s more out there, which we don’t know, let’s get ‘em over Manhattan. At least we got some kinda play.

NEADS weapons controllers request the launch of the two F-16 fighters at Alert on Langley AFB (Air Force Base) in Virginia. However this request is refused by NEADS command. Instead the fighters are put on Battle Stations. NEADS command are concerned that the Langley fighters are the only remaining aircraft they have – if both pairs are airborne at the same time both pairs will run out of fuel at the same time.

0921 Boston Centre notify NEADS of a third hijacked aircraft, headed for Washington DC. (4th incident of the morning).

9:21:37
DOOLEY: Another hijack! It’s headed towards Washington!
NASYPANY: ****! Give me a location.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay. Third aircraft—hijacked—heading toward Washington.

0921 Boston Centre overhears a FAA conversation which mentions AA11 is still airborne. Based on this and AA11’s previous known heading they determine that it is headed for Washington DC. They notify NEADS.

9:21:50
NASYPANY: O.K. American Airlines is still airborne—11, the first guy. He’s heading towards Washington. O.K., I think we need to scramble Langley right now. And I’m—I’m gonna take the fighters from Otis and try to chase this guy down if I can find him.

0922 The Langley fighters are scrambled, however the pilots are not given a reason for a scramble. The Navy ATC handling them directs them east, over the Atlantic Ocean, to a military training airspace called Whiskey 386.

0928 UA93 is hijacked.

0934 In the course of a call to Washington Centre, NEADS finds out about the hijacking of AA77 (bringing the day’s total – from NEADS’ point of view – to 4 hijackings (one crashed into WTC) plus the first crash into the WTC as a 5th aircraft).

9:34:01
WASHINGTON CENTER: Now, let me tell you this. I—I'll—we've been looking. We're—also lost American 77—
WATSON: American 77?
DOOLEY: American 77's lost—
WATSON: Where was it proposed to head, sir?
WASHINGTON CENTER: Okay, he was going to L.A. also—
WATSON: From where, sir?
WASHINGTON CENTER: I think he was from Boston also. Now let me tell you this story here. Indianapolis Center was working this guy—
WATSON: What guy?
WASHINGTON CENTER: American 77, at flight level 3-5-0 [35,000 feet]. However, they lost radar with him. They lost contact with him. They lost everything. And they don't have any idea where he is or what happened.

0934 NEADS notice the F-16s are headed in the wrong direction, and contact the Navy ATC.

9:34:12
NAVY A.T.C.: You’ve got [the fighters] moving east in airspace. Now you want ‘em to go to Baltimore?
HUCKABONE: Yes, sir. We’re not gonna take ‘em in Whiskey 386 [military training airspace over the ocean].
NAVY A.T.C.: O.K., once he goes to Baltimore, what are we supposed to do?
HUCKABONE: Have him contact us on auxiliary frequency 2-3-4 decimal 6. Instead of taking handoffs to us and us handing ‘em back, just tell Center they’ve got to go to Baltimore.
NAVY A.T.C.: All right, man. Stand by. We’ll get back to you.
CITINO: What do you mean, “We’ll get back to you”? Just do it!
HUCKABONE: I’m gonna choke that guy!
CITINO: Be very professional, Huck.
HUCKABONE: O.K.
CITINO: All right, Huck. Let’s get our act together here.

0935 Boston Centre notify NEADS of yet another unidentified aircraft flying over Washington DC (6th aircraft incident).

9:35:41
ROUNTREE: Huntress [call sign for NEADS] ID, Rountree, can I help you?
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): Latest report, [low-flying] aircraft six miles southeast of the White House.
ROUNTREE: Six miles southeast of the White House?
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): Yup. East—he’s moving away?
ROUNTREE: Southeast from the White House.
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): Air—aircraft is moving away.
ROUNTREE: Moving away from the White House?
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): Yeah.…
ROUNTREE: Deviating away. You don’t have a type aircraft, you don’t know who he is—
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): Nothing, nothing. We’re over here in Boston so I have no clue. That—hopefully somebody in Washington would have better—information for you.

0936 The Langley Fighters are directed to head for the White House.

9:36:23
NASYPANY: O.K., Foxy [Major Fox, the Weapons Team head]. I got a aircraft six miles east of the White House! Get your fighters there as soon as possible!
MALE VOICE: That came from Boston?
HUCKABONE: We’re gonna turn and burn it—crank it up—
MALE TECH: Six miles!
HUCKABONE: All right, here we go. This is what we’re gonna do—
NASYPANY: We’ve got an aircraft deviating eight [sic] miles east of the White House right now.
FOX: Do you want us to declare A.F.I.O. [emergency military control of the fighters] and run ‘em straight in there?
NASYPANY: Take ‘em and run ‘em to the White House.
FOX: Go directly to Washington.
CITINO: We’re going direct D.C. with my guys [Langley fighters]? Okay. Okay.
HUCKABONE: Ma’am, we are going A.F.I.O. right now with Quit 2-5 [the Langley fighters]. They are going direct Washington.
NAVY A.T.C.: Quit 2-5, we’re handing ‘em off to Center right now.
HUCKABONE: Ma’am, we need to expedite that right now. We’ve gotta contact them on 2-3-4-6.

0937 AA77 hits The Pentagon. The Langley Fighters are 150 miles away.

0939 After several transmissions from the hijackers, Cleveland Centre is now aware that UA93 has been hijacked. However they do not notify the military – standard procedure in the event of a hijacking is to hand control over to the FBI.

0940 Boston Centre notify NEADS of a possibly hijacking of Delta 1989. Unknown to Boston Centre, an ATC in Cleveland has already made contact with the crew of Delta 1989 and determined that there is no hijacking. This is the 7th aircraft incident of the day, as far as NEADS are aware.

9:40:57
ROUNTREE: Delta 89, that’s the hijack. They think it’s possible hijack.
DOOLEY: ****!
ROUNTREE: South of Cleveland. We have a code on him now.
DOOLEY: Good. Pick it up! Find it!
MALE TECH: Delta what?
ROUNTREE: Eight nine—a Boeing 767.
DOOLEY: ****, another one—

NEADS begin contacting ANG bases along the aircraft’s path, as there are no NORAD aircraft in a position to intercept.

0954 A base in Selfridge, Michigan offers up fighters to intercept Delta 1989.

9:54:54
SELFRIDGE FLIGHT OFFICER: Here—here’s what we can do. At a minimum, we can keep our guys airborne. I mean, they don’t have—they don’t have any guns or missiles or anything on board. But we—
NEADS TECH: It’s a presence, though.

1000 Some time between 0954 and 1007, NEADS receive a call from NORAD Canada Region, notifying them of a suspected hijack aircraft headed south across the border to Washington. This is the 8th aircraft incident.

1003 UA93 crashes into a field near Shankesville, Pennsylvania after passengers attempt to seize control of the cockpit.

1007 Baltimore Centre becomes aware of an aircraft over the White House. 9th aircraft incident.

Quote:
10:07:08
PILOT: Baltimore is saying something about an aircraft over the White House. Any words?
CITINO: Negative. Stand by. Do you copy that, SD [Major Fox]? Center said there’s an aircraft over the White House. Any words?
FOX: M.C.C. [Nasypany], we’ve got an aircraft reported over the White House.
NASYPANY: Intercept!
FOX: Intercept!
NASYPANY: Intercept and divert that aircraft away from there.
CITINO: Quit 2-5 [Langley fighters], mission is intercept aircraft over White House. Use F.A.A. for guidance.
FOX: Divert the aircraft away from the White House. Intercept and divert it.
CITINO: Quit 2-5, divert the aircraft from the White House.
PILOT: Divert the aircraft.…

1007 Cleveland Centre notifies NEADS of the hijacking of UA93 – unaware that it has already crashed. 10th aircraft incident.

10:07:16
CLEVELAND CENTER: We got a United 93 out here. Are you aware of that?
WATSON: United 93?
CLEVELAND CENTER: That has a bomb on board.
WATSON: A bomb on board?! And this is confirmed? You have a [beacon code], sir?
CLEVELAND CENTER: No, we lost his transponder.

The information is shouted out to Nasypany.

NASYPANY: Gimme the call sign. Gimme the whole nine yards.… Let’s get some info, real quick. They got a bomb?

1010 The chase towards the White House continues, eventually ending when NEADS realize the unidentified aircraft spotted by Baltimore Centre is actually the two Langley F-16s.

10:10:31
NASYPANY (to floor): Negative. Negative clearance to shoot.… Goddammit!…
FOX: I’m not really worried about code words at this point.
NASYPANY: **** the code words. That’s perishable information. Negative clearance to fire. ID. Type. Tail.

CITINO: Quit 2-6, Huntress. How far is the—suspect aircraft?
PILOT: Standby. Standby.… About 15 miles, Huntress.
CITINO: Huntress copies two-two miles.
PILOT: 15 miles, Huntress.
CITINO: 15 miles. One-five … noise level please … It’s got to be low. Quit 2-6, when able say altitude of the aircraft.… Did we get a Z-track [coordinates] up for the White House?
HUCKABONE: They’re workin’ on it.
CITINO: Okay. Hey, what’s this Bravo 0-0-5 [unidentified target]?
FOX: We’re trying to get the Z-point. We’re trying to find it.
HUCKABONE: I don’t even know where the White House is.
CITINO: Whatever it is, it’s very low. It’s probably a helicopter.
MALE VOICE: It’s probably the helicopter you’re watching there.… There’s probably one flying over the [Pentagon].
MALE VOICE: It’s probably the smoke. The building’s smoked. [They’re seeing more pictures of the flaming Pentagon on CNN.]
HUCKABONE: Holy ****.… Holy **** …
CITINO: Yes. We saw that. O.K.—let’s watch our guys, Huck. Not the TV.… Quit 2-6, status? SD, they’re too low. I can’t talk to ‘em. They’re too low. I can’t talk to ‘em.
FOX: Negative clearance to fire.
CITINO: O.K. I told ‘em mission is ID and that was it.
FOX: Do whatever you need to divert. They are not cleared to fire.

HUCKABONE: It was our guys [the fighters from Langley].
CITINO: Yup. It was our guys they saw. It was our guys they saw—Center saw.
FOX: New York did the same thing….
CITINO: O.K., Huck. That was cool. We intercepted our own guys.

1015 NEADS are notified that UA93 has crashed.

10:15:00
WATSON: United nine three, have you got information on that yet?
WASHINGTON CENTER: Yeah, he’s down.
WATSON: What—he’s down?
WASHINGTON CENTER: Yes.
WATSON: When did he land? Because we have confirmation—
WASHINGTON CENTER: He did—he did—he did not land.

Here, on the tape, you hear the air rush out of Watson’s voice.

WATSON: Oh, he’s down down?
MALE VOICE: Yes. Yeah, somewhere up northeast of Camp David.
WATSON: Northeast of Camp David.
WASHINGTON CENTER: That’s the—that’s the last report. They don’t know exactly where.

1015 30 seconds after being notified that UA93 has crashed, NORAD South East Air Defense Sector (SEADS) notifies NEADS of another potential hijacking. This is the 11th incident of the day.

10:15:30
POWELL: Southeast just called. There’s another possible hijack in our area.…
NASYPANY: All right. **** …

False reports of hijackings, and real responses, continue well into the afternoon, though civilian air-traffic controllers had managed to clear the skies of all commercial and private aircraft by just after 12 p.m. The fighter pilots over New York and D.C. (and later Boston and Chicago) would spend hours darting around their respective skylines intercepting hundreds of aircraft they deemed suspicious. Meanwhile, Arnold, Marr, and Nasypany were launching as many additional fighters as they could, placing some 300 armed jets in protective orbits over every major American city by the following morning. No one at NEADS would go home until late on the night of the 11th, and then only for a few hours of sleep.

Primary Timeline Resources

Vanity Fair article “9/11 Live: The NORAD Tapes”

Information on AA 11
Information on UA 175
Information on AA 77
Information on UA 93

It is interesting to note that between 0837 and 1015 (98 minutes) NEADS are notified of 11 different incidents involving commercial aircraft (many of these turn out to be double-ups, phantom aircraft, mistakes, etc...)

I also have a word document version of this timeline.

-Andrew

 

[MikeW]

Lt Col Phil Thompson on Andrews Air Force Base, 9/11, and how they'd "never been an air defense unit":

A miracle of the post-attack hours on Sept. 11 was that no aircraft was shot down accidentally, a credit to the training and discipline of U.S. fighter crews. That fact is even more impressive when one considers many of those pilots had little or no experience with air defense techniques and protocols.

"We really didn't know the intricacies of Norad's mission--how it works," Thompson explained. "We've never been an air defense unit. We practice scrambles, we know how to do intercepts and other things, but there's a lot of protocol in the air defense business. We obviously didn't have that expertise, but it worked out fine.
Source

But he's just someone else who's "in on it", right?

 

[JamesB]

From the 9/11 visibility project:

Sitting on the Andrews ramp just 10 miles away, were two fully armed and fueled supersonic interceptors tasked with protecting the capitol from airborne terrorist threats on 15 minutes' notice!


Can somebody kindly show me information showing this statement to be a lie??

Well it is on the Internet, it must be true!

 

[lapman]

From the 9/11 visibility project:

Sitting on the Andrews ramp just 10 miles away, were two fully armed and fueled supersonic interceptors tasked with protecting the capitol from airborne terrorist threats on 15 minutes' notice!


Can somebody kindly show me information showing this statement to be a lie??


Or why these planes werent at full speed on 9/11:

Nearly half-an-hour after receiving the belated order to scramble, two Falcons coasted in over the burning Pentagon. Slowed down to just 410 mph, it had taken the 1,500 mph-capable fighters 19 minutes to cover the 130 miles from Virginia. It should have taken just over seven minutes to reach the Pentagon - at about the time Flight 77 was making a predatory circle overhead. [NORAD, Sep 18, 2001; USAF]

Or why these guys werent vectored in at full speed"

With no other bogeys on eastern seaboard scopes, air combat doctrine dictates that the two unemployed Otis F-15s already in the area be redirected to "honor the threat" of an incoming flying bomb, 330 miles out. Even loafing along, the fighters would have more than 20 minutes to confront Flight 77 before it neared the Pentagon.

Instead, Pentagon professionals defending their country's nerve centers waited more than an hour after watching Flight 11 go rogue - including 30 critical minutes after Flight 77 turned abruptly toward them and the nearby White House - before scrambling two F-16's out of Langley Air Force Base to protect the capitol.



It stinks to high heaven, and anybody that doesnt question why any possible interceptors werent flown wide open that morning should be ashamed of themselves.

I know as a veteran i am, and find it impossible to believe this comedy of lies.

Supporting the official story is, in my patriotic mind, treasonous.

More stupidity. Ok, let's put this in simple terms that you may understand. The fighters carry this thing called fuel. They have only a limited supply of it on board. Flying around at full speed for no real reason uses that fuel quite rapidly. This would force them to refuel instead of being able to patrol and intercept a target. They did not know that 77 was hijacked until 2 minutes prior to it's crash. Therefore, even in your fictitious scenario, they would have been 5 minutes too late to intercept. There. Is that simple enough?

 

[MikeW]

From the 9/11 visibility project:

Sitting on the Andrews ramp just 10 miles away, were two fully armed and fueled supersonic interceptors tasked with protecting the capitol from airborne terrorist threats on 15 minutes' notice!

Can somebody kindly show me information showing this statement to be a lie??

What, we're supposed to trust truther sites, despite their constant fictions and deceptions?

You've sourced this one from here, a site which also tells us:

In that legendary intercept, a fighter jet out of Tyndall, Florida was diverted from a training flight to escort the Lear, whose pilot had become incapacitated, trapping Stewart in the stratosphere. An F-16 was reportedly sitting off the left wingtip of Payne's pilotless business jet within 19 minutes of the FAA alert. [ABC News, Oct 25, 1999]

Feeble research. Anyone who bothered to look at the Stewart NTSB accident report knows it actually took an hour longer than that ( http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Payne_Stewart ).

Trusting this site is a very bad idea, then. And you might also want to think how a Stewart intercept time of well over an hour affects your claim that planes should be intercepted within minutes.

 

[tsig]

Hey, when is the last time you saw an ambulance on the way to a bad accident doing 55 with no lights on


If i was a poor soul on 77, i would like to think help was coming at full speed. I can imagine a guy like Burlingame rolling in his grave if he knew help was coming at 300 knots

How would shooting them down help them?

 

[roundhead]

More stupidity. Ok, let's put this in simple terms that you may understand. The fighters carry this thing called fuel. They have only a limited supply of it on board. Flying around at full speed for no real reason uses that fuel quite rapidly. This would force them to refuel instead of being able to patrol and intercept a target. They did not know that 77 was hijacked until 2 minutes prior to it's crash. Therefore, even in your fictitious scenario, they would have been 5 minutes too late to intercept. There. Is that simple enough?

They knew it was highjacked shortly after 9 that morning. Are you truly that dumb? Honestly? PLANES HAVE HIT TOWERS , this plane is flying around without a transponder, easily seen on military radar, and its not a highjack till 9:35...you are out of your mind, a very common ailment around here, it seems.

 

[beachnut]

They knew it was highjacked shortly after 9 that morning. Are you truly that dumb? Honestly? PLANES HAVE HIT TOWERS , this plane is flying around without a transponder, easily seen on military radar, and its not a highjack till 9:35...you are out of your mind, a very common ailment around here, it seems.

You will have to correct yourself, just like on the supersonic U-2. When will you fix all your errors?

 

[lapman]

They knew it was highjacked shortly after 9 that morning. Are you truly that dumb? Honestly? PLANES HAVE HIT TOWERS , this plane is flying around without a transponder, easily seen on military radar, and its not a highjack till 9:35...you are out of your mind, a very common ailment around here, it seems.

NORAD didn't know that it was hijacked. You obviously are that dumb to think that they knew. Of course you still live in your video game fantasy world and haven't lived in the real world to know how it works. You have yet to provide even one piece of evidence that NORAD launches aircraft every time a transponder return is lost. You know nothing about how the radar system works. You know nothing about how the military works. You know nothing about aircraft, flying, or anything but what you read from a religious theology teacher. You have shown that you have zero concept of how the real world works. We have destroyed everything you have posted, repeatedly. You have shown that you are not interested in the truth at all.

 

[bio]

Normally, I hate quoting full posts here to rebut nonsense. But since some thread participants insist on using their misperceptions in place of real-world info, I will break my rule. Here's NORAD's response, laid out in full by Gumboot:

The main problem this day was, that the FAA could not reach the the NMCC until 10:17 a.m on 9/11:
10:17 am: FAA finally joins NMCC Teleconference. It cannot join because “technical difficulties.” So leaders from NORAD and FAA are out of contact during crisis.
9/11 Commission, 6/17/2004

“Prior to 9/11, FAA’s traditional communication channel with the military during a crisis had been through the National Military Command Center (NMCC). They were always included in the communication net that was used to manage a hijack incident.” Berger says that, since the FAA does not have direct dedicated communication links with NORAD, in a hijack scenario the NMCC has “the responsibility to coordinate [Defense Department]‘s response to requests from the FAA or the FBI.” [9/11 Commission, 6/17/2004 pdf file; 9/11 Commission, 6/17/2004]
Monte Berger was FAA Acting deputy Administrator.

The National Military Command Center (NMCC) within the Pentagon “is the focal point within Department of Defense for providing assistance. In the event of a hijacking, the NMCC will be notified by the most expeditious means by the FAA. The NMCC will, with the exception of immediate responses as authorized by reference d, forward requests for DOD assistance to the secretary of defense for approval.”
US Department of Defense, 6/1/

NMCC could not be contacted by the FAA - due to "technical difficulties? Are you serious and believe that incredible story?

 

[SpitfireIX]

So, because it wasnt a Norad base, it wasnt used. Thats laughable. And very unconvincing.

No one said it wasn't used; there were simply no aircraft on 15-minute alert.

When you consider its proximity to the Capitol, i would be EXTREMELY surprised if that base wasnt in fact ready to deal with any national emergency in the Capitol at a moments notice.

Argument from personal incredulity. Any air attack was expected to have come from outside the United States; fighters on 15-minute alert at Langley would easily have been able to have intercepted such threats.

Why be there with that many units with Langley only 129 miles away. Redundancy, or in fact, closer and able to respond quicker due to the proximity. I would hate to think that if a foreign dignitary was faced with his plane being highjacked after flying from Andrews home, he would wait for help from Langley, and not from Andrews. That makes no sense at all. And i cant imagine that scenario hasnt been thought of by people other than me.

And Admiral Harry E. Yarnell thought of attacking Pearl Harbor with aircraft carriers during Fleet Problem 13 in 1932 (see here). That didn't prevent the Japanese from doing so for real a decade later. Bureaucratic inertia is simply a fact of life, whether you like it or not.

As i posted initially, fighters actually WERE scrambled from there, so Norad or not, a call was in fact made there for help.It seems resonable that the call was made because Andrews WAS capable of immediate help, otherwise, why call at all.

Oh, please. How often do people call for help without knowing whether the organization being called is able to help? How often do desperate people call for help even when a rational and detached person would say that the entity in question probably wouln't be able to help, simply because they have no other options? Further, how would the Secret Service have known how soon any additional attacks might have been coming?

I would be curious as to exactly when Andrews was called to scramble and how long it took them to have the reported assets they had over the Capitol area. I havent found a response time from when Andrews was called and how long it took to have assets over DC. But i will bet money it wasnt half an hour(BTW, still plenty of time)

You lose.

From an Aviation Week and Space Technology article:

At Andrews, several officers were in a scheduling meeting when they received word that the World Trade Center had been hit by an aircraft. Minutes later, after United Airlines Flight 175 slammed into the second WTC tower, a squadron pilot called a friend in the Secret Service "to see what was going on. He was told some bad things were happening. At that time, we weren't thinking about defending anything. Our primary concern was what would happen to the air traffic system," said Lt. Col. Marc H. (Sass) Sasseville, the current 121st FS commander. On Sept. 11, he was the director of operations and air operations officer--the acting operations group commander under the 113th Wing.

Soon thereafter, the Secret Service called back, asking whether the squadron could get fighters airborne. The unit's maintenance section was notified to get several F-16s armed and ready to fly. Anticipating such an order, Col. Don C. Mozley, the 113th Logistics Group commander, had already ordered his weapons officer to "break out the AIM-9s and start building them up." The missiles had to be transported from a bunker on the other side of the base, which would take a while.

"After the Pentagon was hit, we were told there were more [airliners] coming. Not 'might be'; they were coming," Mozley recalled. . . .

Another call from the Secret Service commanded, "Get in the air now!" [bolding mine]

Seemingly, if one is to believe the tale about only 14 interceptors TOTAL, then Andrews would have been considered right away, as a way to reinforce what assets that were available.

Hindsight bias. No one knew that Washington might be threatened until the attacks were well underway.

In other words, if you are in a crowded pool and drowning, and the only available lifeguard is busy saving somebody else, or otherwise incapacitated it would make sense to holler at somebody nearby that can swim, rather than wait for the lifeguard to get to you. Especially in a life and death situation, which was the case on 9/11.

Your analogy is specious. A better one: What if you're alone in the pool, and there's only one other person around. She's standing next to the pool and not wearing a swimsuit. Will you enquire whether she can swim before you start yelling for help?

 

[roundhead]

Lt Col Phil Thompson on Andrews Air Force Base, 9/11, and how they'd "never been an air defense unit":



But he's just someone else who's "in on it", right?

His statement makes clear he knows how to intercept a plane.He needed do anything else that morning. It would be foolish to think a fighter pilot doesnt know air interception.

All they have to be told is where, and what to do.

You do a very poor job of defending the standdown, very poor.

Those two fighters at Langley could have flown on burners to the Pentagon, dealt with 77, and landed at Andrews, same with the Otis assets.

The fact is, they just plain didnt want them getting there, and did a very poor job of balancing out how to look competent and aggressive all while creeping to intercepts, and late at that.

I enjoy the rolling out of this debunkable spewage you guys post. It lets me know, from this bastion of official lie slurpage, just how thin the veneer covering this treasonous set of acts is.

If i had a good audio video operator, and an hour on a prime time netowrk, i would have these people scurrying into the rat holes they belong.

The plausibility of a standdown dwarfs the official, three times morphed slime we have been told vai official channels.

 

[roundhead]

repost..

 

[lapman]

His statement makes clear he knows how to intercept a plane.He needed do anything else that morning. It would be foolish to think a fighter pilot doesnt know air interception.

All they have to be told is where, and what to do.

You do a very poor job of defending the standdown, very poor.

Those two fighters at Langley could have flown on burners to the Pentagon, dealt with 77, and landed at Andrews, same with the Otis assets.

The fact is, they just plain didnt want them getting there, and did a very poor job of balancing out how to look competent and aggressive all while creeping to intercepts, and late at that.

I enjoy the rolling out of this debunkable spewage you guys post. It lets me know, from this bastion of official lie slurpage, just how thin the veneer covering this treasonous set of acts is.

If i had a good audio video operator, and an hour on a prime time netowrk, i would have these people scurrying into the rat holes they belong.

The plausibility of a standdown dwarfs the official, three times morphed slime we have been told vai official channels.

Wow, the stupidity of your posts are really piling up. You still haven't gotten it that in order for aircraft to intercept a target, they have to have a target to intercept. They are not going to fly around all over the place chasing each and every blip on a radar. NORAD did not know that flight 77 was a hijacked aircraft until 2 minutes prior to it's crash. You will claim that they "knew," yet cannot back that statement. As has been proven, military aircraft aren't just launched because someones transponder goes off. They have to be informed by the FAA which aircraft are suspected to be hijacked. This concept seems to be WAY over your head.

 

[bio]

Quote:
At Andrews, several officers were in a scheduling meeting when they received word that the World Trade Center had been hit by an aircraft. Minutes later, after United Airlines Flight 175 slammed into the second WTC tower, a squadron pilot called a friend in the Secret Service "to see what was going on. He was told some bad things were happening. At that time, we weren't thinking about defending anything. Our primary concern was what would happen to the air traffic system," said Lt. Col. Marc H. (Sass) Sasseville, the current 121st FS commander. On Sept. 11, he was the director of operations and air operations officer--the acting operations group commander under the 113th Wing.

Soon thereafter, the Secret Service called back, asking whether the squadron could get fighters airborne. The unit's maintenance section was notified to get several F-16s armed and ready to fly. Anticipating such an order, Col. Don C. Mozley, the 113th Logistics Group commander, had already ordered his weapons officer to "break out the AIM-9s and start building them up." The missiles had to be transported from a bunker on the other side of the base, which would take a while.

"After the Pentagon was hit, we were told there were more [airliners] coming. Not 'might be'; they were coming," Mozley recalled. . . .

Another call from the Secret Service commanded, "Get in the air now!" [bolding mine]

This is just incredible. Andrew Base was just concerned, what could happen to the air traffic system? Other bases apprehended, that America stood under attack and offered planes. Had this misinterpretation of the commander (with the obvious result) any consequences for him?

What is interesting, what time did the secret service call back? "soon thereafter" is ...