Are Truthers' accusations against Silverstein based on latent anti-Semitism?

[1337m4n]

I have created this thread to continue a tangent discussion which started in this thread, starting, I think, on page 5. I have respect for Max Photon so I do not wish to continue derailing his thread.


For those who were not following, we were discussing whether the accusations made against Larry Silverstein--of lying, of complicity, of a cover-up, of fraud, etc--are, deep down, motivated by anti-Semitism on the part of the accuser.

Pomeroo and I believe this is the case, based on the utter lack of evidence for any sort of malice on Silverstein's part, the Truth Movement's obsession with the WTC7 case despite minimal differences between it and the cases of other auxiliary WTC buildings, the Truth Movement's cherrypicking and persistent harping on Silverstein's "pull it" quote even after it was proven that the term is NOT demolition slang, and the great deal of known anti-Semitism within the Truth Movement.

 

[~enigma~]

I have created this thread to continue a tangent discussion which started in this thread, starting, I think, on page 5. I have respect for Max Photon so I do not wish to continue derailing his thread.

It's not latent. They may think it doesn't show but it does.

 

[adversity1]

I had a totally strange encounter with this 'theory' the other day. I was chilling at home with a good friend and I brought up the idiocy of Yukihisa Fujita and how I was writing a longer piece on the truthers. And he suddenly looked at me and said 'but you know there was something fishy about how those towers fell'. I snapped around, confused. This guy had openly sympathized with my paper the time I mentioned it to him before, but here he was giving me really limp trutherisms? I quickly debunked all his WTC1 and 2 points and then he came around to 7 and said 'the Jewish family that owned those towers made millions off of that'. I immediately asked him why he made sure to say Jewish. He was basically stunned and couldn't respond. He had realized that he was spouting off anti-semitism without even thinking about it. I then pointed out how Silverstein (and not his family) in fact lost money on the site, yada yada.

It really shocked me and told me that a lot of people have swallowed this little big lie that floats around internet 'consciousness'.

 

[MarkyX]

I gave this a mention and Pomeroo picked up on it at another thread, so I might as well give my two cents.

The problem with WTC7 is no crime has been committed.

- No bombs were found in the debris
- No visual or audio evidence indicates any explosives
- No one died
- Numerous members of the FDNY knew about the collapse
- Other WTC buildings have collapsed
- The insurance companies do not see anything wrong with Larry's case
- Larry rebuilt WTC7 in the end and didn't gain a profit

Of course, many 9/11 deniers love to bring up the strawman argument about how "WTC7 wasn't mentioned in the 9/11 commission. Why is this a strawman?

- WTC7 wasn't a terrorist target
- Many other buildings collapsed on that day and weren't mentioned
- Again, no one died, so why bother reporting it?
- It was expected to collapse, see above point.

The reason why WTC7 gains the spotlight is because of Larry's bloodline. Why do the 9/11 deniers bring up PNAC? Jews were part of it. Why must the PM editor must be the cousin of someone at Homeland security? Jews. How does a bunch of people dancing "fit" into the theory? Because they were Jews. Can't trust the mainstream media? Run by jews, of course!

Hell, didn't Hitler mentioned "Bankers control everything" ? Much like 9/11 Mysterious source, Eric Hufschmid?

 

[DavidJames]

It's not latent. They may think it doesn't show but it does.

Sorry, but this logic is no different then the CTists. No doubt there are anti-semitic CTists, but we don't do the cause of skepticism any favors by making such claims without evidence. The same goes for those who want to lay this at the feet of "leftists".

We demand evidence by the CTists to support their claims, I suggest we ask no less of ourselves.

 

[~enigma~]

Sorry, but this logic is no different then the CTists. No doubt there are anti-semitic CTists, but we don't do the cause of skepticism any favors by making such claims without evidence. The same goes for those who want to lay this at the feet of "leftists".

We demand evidence by the CTists to support their claims, I suggest we ask no less of ourselves.

So you believe there are no outward and obvious anti-semites in the bowel movement? Or rather you claim there is no evidence of any outward anti-semitism in the bowel movement?

 

[funk de fino]

I think originally the accusers did it because of his religion and some still do.

The majority of the TM now do it through blatant stupidity rather than the religious angle IMO. What gets me are the posters on here who are obviously quite intelligent who still cling to the "pull it" theory. There has to be an underlying factor whether it be because they hate rich people or because he is a jew. Either that or the loss of the pull it theory is the last jenga piece they have left before they realise the fantasy they have clung to is total bunk and will collapse if they move that piece.

 

[Max Photon]

I have created this thread to continue a tangent discussion which started in this thread, starting, I think, on page 5. I have respect for Max Photon so I do not wish to continue derailing his thread.

Thank you sir.

 

[pomeroo]

Sorry, but this logic is no different then the CTists. No doubt there are anti-semitic CTists, but we don't do the cause of skepticism any favors by making such claims without evidence. The same goes for those who want to lay this at the feet of "leftists".

We demand evidence by the CTists to support their claims, I suggest we ask no less of ourselves.

David, I asked RedIbis to denounce the vicious Jew-haters in the fantasy movement who promote nonsensical myths about "dancing Jews," Mossad agents, and mysterious messages warning Jews to stay out of the Towers on 9/11. He refuses to do so. This represents the first principled stand he has ever taken. What do you suppose the principle is?

 

[Max Photon]

Hmmmm.....now it's okay to question motives?

 

[~enigma~]

Hmmmm.....now it's okay to question motives?

Who said we can't question motives....jesus?

ETA - do you think the jew hating from the truthers is commendable? Do you agree with them or do you renounce their idiocy?

 

[metamars]

I have created this thread to continue a tangent discussion which started in this thread, starting, I think, on page 5. I have respect for Max Photon so I do not wish to continue derailing his thread.


For those who were not following, we were discussing whether the accusations made against Larry Silverstein--of lying, of complicity, of a cover-up, of fraud, etc--are, deep down, motivated by anti-Semitism on the part of the accuser.

Pomeroo and I believe this is the case, based on the utter lack of evidence for any sort of malice on Silverstein's part, the Truth Movement's obsession with the WTC7 case despite minimal differences between it and the cases of other auxiliary WTC buildings, the Truth Movement's cherrypicking and persistent harping on Silverstein's "pull it" quote even after it was proven that the term is NOT demolition slang, and the great deal of known anti-Semitism within the Truth Movement.

If you ask a random sample of, say, 1,000 911 Truthers who are familiar with the collapse of WTC7, whether or not they believe that the "pull it" quote is significant or not, and whether they agree with your ridiculous statement about "minimal differences between it and the cases of other auxiliary WTC buildings", how many of them will have been convinced by the stellar logic of the JREF community?

Myself, I'd put it at less than 1%. That's a guess, but it's probably better than yours.

If I'm correct, the very premises of your question is ludicrous, and personally, I can't help but escape the feeling that you, pomeroo, and others are trying to beat the anti-Semitic dead horse to death.

Do you have any idea how stupid it is to ask such a loaded question? You ask a question which implies that you and pomeroo are so dumb that you can't figure out, without somebody pointing it out to you, that your convictions about WTC 7 are either unknown to WTC7 aware truthers, or else have been REJECTED by them. (I note that you conflate common sense interpretations of "pull it" with industry slang interpretation, as though Silverstein was a practitioner of the art! Oh, say now, that's really brilliant!)

Actually, if your intention is to smear 911 Truthers, using innuendo of anti-Semitism are just as good as any other approach. Just keep repeating "Anti-Semite" or "Jew hater" in conjunction with "911 Truth" for enough years, and the shallow of mind are sure to internalize this meme. In this case, I wouldn't call it stupid. I would call it disgusting, though. As a propaganda technique, it may be effective, but the immorality of it is repulsive.

Why don't you and pomeroo put signs on your foreheads, saying, "Looking to smear YOU with anti-Semitism"? Oh, right, your question gives it away. Either that, or you're both incredibly dumb.

Speaking of WTC 7, BTW, I have just posted a link to a new paper by Charles M. Beck on the subject. In his abstract, he states that the first 16-26 m of descent was a free fall. Would you also have us believe that 911 Truthers would find this suspicious only because Silverstein is Jewish, and the Truthers are anti-Semitic?

Apparently so, but the looniness of such a claim speaks to the mentality of the claimants, itself.

Here's a more reasonable question: "Are nasty debunkers jumping on the 'Anti-Semites 'R You' bandwagon because the WTC 7 NIST report - whether a reasonable one or a laughable one - is nowhere to be seen?"

Somehow, I don't think you'll want to discuss that question, especially if the NIST report is delayed another 10 or 20 years.

 

[funk de fino]

If you ask a random sample of, say, 1,000 911 Truthers who are familiar with the collapse of WTC7, whether or not they believe that the "pull it" quote is significant or not, and whether they agree with your ridiculous statement about "minimal differences between it and the cases of other auxiliary WTC buildings", how many of them will have been convinced by the stellar logic of the JREF community?

Myself, I'd put it at less than 1%. That's a guess, but it's probably better than yours.

If I'm correct, the very premises of your question is ludicrous, and personally, I can't help but escape the feeling that you, pomeroo, and others are trying to beat the anti-Semitic dead horse to death.

Do you have any idea how stupid it is to ask such a loaded question? You ask a question which implies that you and pomeroo are so dumb that you can't figure out, without somebody pointing it out to you, that your convictions about WTC 7 are either unknown to WTC7 aware truthers, or else have been REJECTED by them. (I note that you conflate common sense interpretations of "pull it" with industry slang interpretation, as though Silverstein was a practitioner of the art! Oh, say now, that's really brilliant!)

Actually, if your intention is to smear 911 Truthers, using innuendo of anti-Semitism are just as good as any other approach. Just keep repeating "Anti-Semite" or "Jew hater" in conjunction with "911 Truth" for enough years, and the shallow of mind are sure to internalize this meme. In this case, I wouldn't call it stupid. I would call it disgusting, though. As a propaganda technique, it may be effective, but the immorality of it is repulsive.

Why don't you and pomeroo put signs on your foreheads, saying, "Looking to smear YOU with anti-Semitism"? Oh, right, your question gives it away. Either that, or you're both incredibly dumb.

Speaking of WTC 7, BTW, I have just posted a link to a new paper by Charles M. Beck on the subject. In his abstract, he states that the first 16-26 m of descent was a free fall. Would you also have us believe that 911 Truthers would find this suspicious only because Silverstein is Jewish, and the Truthers are anti-Semitic?

Apparently so, but the looniness of such a claim speaks to the mentality of the claimants, itself.

Here's a more reasonable question: "Are nasty debunkers jumping on the 'Anti-Semites 'R You' bandwagon because the WTC 7 NIST report - whether a reasonable one or a laughable one - is nowhere to be seen?"

Somehow, I don't think you'll want to discuss that question, especially if the NIST report is delayed another 10 or 20 years.

Do you condemn the jew hating bigot truthers who post their filth here and on other sites?

Or just debunkers who try to call the movement on it?

 

[metamars]

I've muddled things by criticizing the "loaded question". The question I refer to is not explicit, but implicit in

we were discussing whether the accusations made against Larry Silverstein--of lying, of complicity, of a cover-up, of fraud, etc--are, deep down, motivated by anti-Semitism on the part of the accuser.

I.e., the (implicit) question is "are accusations made against Larry Silverstein motivated by anti-Semitism on the part of the accuser?"

 

[metamars]

Do you condemn the jew hating bigot truthers who post their filth here and on other sites?

Or just debunkers who try to call the movement on it?

Don't you mean "debunkers who try to SMEAR the entire movement based on some jew hating bigot truthers?" Or are you, too, unable to distinguish between the two?

Do tell.

 

[LashL]

<snipped blather>

You've done a reasonably good job of refuting that which you thought you thought you were supporting. Typical twoofer tripe.

*slow one handed clap*

Now, do you have anything of substance to say about the matter at hand?

 

[bio]

have fun with your conspiracy theory

 

[tsig]

If you ask a random sample of, say, 1,000 911 Truthers who are familiar with the collapse of WTC7, whether or not they believe that the "pull it" quote is significant or not, and whether they agree with your ridiculous statement about "minimal differences between it and the cases of other auxiliary WTC buildings", how many of them will have been convinced by the stellar logic of the JREF community?

Myself, I'd put it at less than 1%. That's a guess, but it's probably better than yours.

If I'm correct, the very premises of your question is ludicrous, and personally, I can't help but escape the feeling that you, pomeroo, and others are trying to beat the anti-Semitic dead horse to death.

Do you have any idea how stupid it is to ask such a loaded question? You ask a question which implies that you and pomeroo are so dumb that you can't figure out, without somebody pointing it out to you, that your convictions about WTC 7 are either unknown to WTC7 aware truthers, or else have been REJECTED by them. (I note that you conflate common sense interpretations of "pull it" with industry slang interpretation, as though Silverstein was a practitioner of the art! Oh, say now, that's really brilliant!)

Actually, if your intention is to smear 911 Truthers, using innuendo of anti-Semitism are just as good as any other approach. Just keep repeating "Anti-Semite" or "Jew hater" in conjunction with "911 Truth" for enough years, and the shallow of mind are sure to internalize this meme. In this case, I wouldn't call it stupid. I would call it disgusting, though. As a propaganda technique, it may be effective, but the immorality of it is repulsive.

Why don't you and pomeroo put signs on your foreheads, saying, "Looking to smear YOU with anti-Semitism"? Oh, right, your question gives it away. Either that, or you're both incredibly dumb.

Speaking of WTC 7, BTW, I have just posted a link to a new paper by Charles M. Beck on the subject. In his abstract, he states that the first 16-26 m of descent was a free fall. Would you also have us believe that 911 Truthers would find this suspicious only because Silverstein is Jewish, and the Truthers are anti-Semitic?

Apparently so, but the looniness of such a claim speaks to the mentality of the claimants, itself.

Here's a more reasonable question: "Are nasty debunkers jumping on the 'Anti-Semites 'R You' bandwagon because the WTC 7 NIST report - whether a reasonable one or a laughable one - is nowhere to be seen?"

Somehow, I don't think you'll want to discuss that question, especially if the NIST report is delayed another 10 or 20 years.

I see it has taken you many words to say "yes".

Why do you hate Jews so?

 

[Arus808]

Truther have to accept the fact that many of the "talking points" originated from Holocaust deniers and jew haters.

 

[funk de fino]

Don't you mean "debunkers who try to SMEAR the entire movement based on some jew hating bigot truthers?" Or are you, too, unable to distinguish between the two?

Do tell.

I aksed you a question. I will answer you when you answer me.

Do you condemn the jew haters and bigots in the TM? Especially the ones that post here?