Offer to the Truth Movement: Let's Settle It

[AZCat]

To Kill the LEAST amount of people.


And we assume the plane hit the poles, maybe it didnt

So what happened then - the poles fell down out of sympathy? What else, other than the aircraft, would have felled the poles?

 

[lapman]

You are way out in right field here with this reasoning. The MINUTE the transponder gets turned off, Norad and its military radars are all over it. That is what they do for a living.

Wrong.

Do you think ICBM'S or Russian jets would have transponders on?

Since when do ICBM and Russian jet attacks originate INSIDE the US.

It was foolish for the highjackers to kick Norad in the face and throw an IMMEDIATE red flag up the second those transponders were turned off.

Norad didn't care about transponders going off in the continental US, so your fictitious scenario wouldn't have happened on 9/11.

That SHOULD get fighters in the air ASAP.

Nope

The only logical explanation for those THREE planes to have the transponders turned off (and as i quoted earlier that isnt easy to know how to do to a novice)is to get the civilian people out of the way and INVOLVE only the military.

As a certified private pilot with MD-80 simulator time, I can say with all certainty that you are 100% wrong. All transponders have a "standby" mode that every single pilot that has been trained any time in the last 20+ years knows about.

In the scheme of things, this greatly narrows those "in the know"removes civilians being in the loop, and allows the circle of insiders to control events without oversight, as it basically blinds civilian radar.

100% wrong on all accounts.

 

[roundhead]

Oh, good Lord...

You really, really need to read the following:
Vanity Fair's "9/11 Live: The NORAD Tapes"
The NORAD Response Revisited
Intercepts, NORAD, and the FAA
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3074230&postcount=20
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2795968&postcount=396
http://www.911myths.com/html/67_intercepts.html

Bottom line is that you're wrong about NORAD and military radars "being all over it", and the military getting jets in the air immediately to intercept a jet over the continental United States. That's not the way things worked back then.

My post 857 seems to cleary state Norad's abilities.

Anybody who refutes the ability of our military air defenses to survey with great detail anything going on over this entire continent is brainwashed.

The govt (as Griffin clearly pointed out in Ommisions and Distortions with references) changed the intercept LIE 3 times.

The FACT is a large jet flying around the Eastern US with transponder off, for a good 40 minutes, and hitting the Pentagon with air assets only a couple of minutes away is incredible.

The fact a lot of you around here actually believe that, and swallow information that trys to diminish the seeming effectivness our our military radar systems boggles the mind of a sane person(me).

As a former electronics/systems troubleshooter in the USN 30 years ago, I am well aware of technology radar and firecontrol wise that existed even back then.

To honestly believe that plane flew around that long without intercept is absolutely horse poopy.With no transponder on.

You guys should know better than that.

 

[beachnut]

PanAm commercial pilot Ted Munda:

“And also in all four planes, if you remember, none of the planes ever switched on their transponder to the hijack code. There's a very, very simple code that you put in if you suspect that your plane is being hijacked. It takes literally just a split-second for you to put your hand down on the center console and flip it over. And not one of the four planes ever transponded a hijack code, which is most, most unusual. ...


That folks, is hard to imagine, in not just one plane, but several. In fact its INPLAUSIBLE.

The pilots never had a chance to set the code. I bet the pilot you cite would have failed to set the code as his blood ran down his chest from his cutthroat. What can you do with your throat cut? Looks like it takes longer than a split second when someone is killing you! Too bad you forgot to tell the pilots they were going to be killed. Since the pilots never set the code, they must have been dead. This means you are wrong again. How many wrongs do you get per inning?

You have a few failed pilots feeding your failed ideas. When will you use some facts to come up with some rational conclusions?

This is it?, not setting the hijack code is your fact that makes 9/11 terrorist impossible?

 

[roundhead]

So what happened then - the poles fell down out of sympathy? What else, other than the aircraft, would have felled the poles?

I dont want to speculate. I keep an open mind. I do that inspite of a number of verifiable to anybody bald faced lies the Govt has told us regading 9/11.

I will cite plenty that arent in the least debatable, if asked.


Griffin's Omissions and Distortions, while not perfect, points out a number of outright lies with great clarity. Its not a bad place to start.

 

[TexasJack]

I dont want to speculate. I keep an open mind. I do that inspite of a number of verifiable to anybody bald faced lies the Govt has told us regading 9/11.

I will cite plenty that arent in the least debatable, if asked.


Griffin's Omissions and Distortions, while not perfect, points out a number of outright lies with great clarity. Its not a bad place to start.

But you have no problem speculating that remote control was used?

 

[AZCat]

I dont want to speculate. I keep an open mind.

That's just stupid. Because you can't think of a plausible alternative for the light poles, you claim you're not going to speculate, therefore allowing you to avoid admitting the only plausible cause is the aircraft. Do you think this is some kind of stupid game?

 

[roundhead]

The pilots never had a chance to set the code. I bet the pilot you cite would have failed to set the code as his blood ran down his chest from his cutthroat. What can you do with your throat cut? Looks like it takes longer than a split second when someone is killing you! Too bad you forgot to tell the pilots they were going to be killed. Since the pilots never set the code, they must have been dead. This means you are wrong again. How many wrongs do you get per inning?

You have a few failed pilots feeding your failed ideas. When will you use some facts to come up with some rational conclusions?

This is it?, not setting the hijack code is your fact that makes 9/11 terrorist impossible?

According to the drivel you swallow, Burlingame WAS IN THE BACK OF THE PLANE WITHOUT HIS THROAT CUT.

Is that truly the best you can do.

Is every pilot i quote stupid. Is a former Navy Commander and Pan Am pilot a liar because he says he can set a highjack code quickly. And none were able to?

The line you have in the water has no bait on it my friend. Continue to sit on the riverbank, waiting for a bite.

 

[beachnut]

According to the drivel you swallow, Burlingame WAS IN THE BACK OF THE PLANE WITHOUT HIS THROAT CUT.

Is that truly the best you can do.

Is every pilot i quote stupid. Is a former Navy Commander and Pan Am pilot a liar because he says he can set a highjack code quickly. And none were able to?

The line you have in the water has no bait on it my friend. Continue to sit on the riverbank, waiting for a bite.

Your hearsay attack has failed. If you had some facts you would not be 9/11 truth drone.

Your sources are wrong. Try again with better sources. So far you have used a few nuts! Your support from pilots will fall in the 0.0001 percent range of pilots that support your failed ideas.

Go ahead ask some pilots about this in person. You may find some that lack knowledge, and are so messed up, they agree with you. Don't fly with them.

Hani paid for lessons, when will you? The terrorist were bad pilots who kept trying, you are a bad researcher who continues to fall short.

Hani Hanjour practices on a Boeing 737-200 simulator for a total of 21 hours at the JetTech International flight school in Phoenix, Arizona. Hanjour also attends ground school and pays just under $7,500 for the training.

 

[roundhead]

Let me summarize the quite easy complete beatdown i have administered to you official lie slurpers.


1. Hani is a very poor pilot
2.Hani did incredible things
3.Hani had never flown nor even been in a 757 simulator
4.All transponders were turned off on all flights
5.No highjack codes were transmitted by any airline pilots
6.Transponders being turned off puts Norad on high alert
7.Norad and the military had intercept aircraft minutes away from the Pentagon
8.77 flew around 40 minutes(at least)not being intercepted with no transponder on
9.Friends of Burlingame state he wouldnt have given up control of the plane(77)
10.There is ZERO evidence he was harmed in any way(and some in fact that he wasnt)
11.No intercepts occurred at all on 9/11. 93 is for another day.
12.Military brass stated that because of wargames, we were even better prepared than normal that morning.


Doesnt paint a pretty picture fellas, to the official story. And only "Hani did incredible things"is mildly debatable.

 

[Smackety]

Yes. He stated as much: "America appeared so mighty ... but it was actually weak and cowardly. Look at Vietnam, look at Lebanon. Whenever soldiers start coming home in body bags, Americans panic and retreat."

So he drew us into a war, hoping that we would panic and retreat from that war. But he did not predict Iraq (from which we may be retreating) so he is hoping that we will panic and retreat due to deaths of US soldiers on Afghanistan? What will that lead to?

I don't believe so. His stratagem appeared to be to force a war in Afghanistan, which has broken armies for centuries.

What comes next? What if we end up pulling out of there like we did in Vietnam, how does that hurt the USA?

It doesn't appear to. Instead, the attacks in Spain may have precipitated their change of government and withdrawal from the coalition in Iraq. Also, by attacking all over the world, he gains enormous prestige among other militant groups. It's a gamble, but one that doesn't seem to have hurt him.

So he hopes to inspire insurgency all over the world by showing the USA does not have the might and will to defeat terrorists in Afghanistan? That kind of makes sense actually.

I'm not sure what the "plan" is in detail. There is more than a hint of takfiri mysticism and fatalism in bin Laden, such as the legends of being bulletproof during jihad against the Soviets, etc. He may actually court martyrdom.

I agree that he may be more powerful dead than alive, especially if it takes another couple decades for the USA to catch up with him.

I'm also quite certain he is and has been making corrections continuously, within his resources, which are more limited than many believe. The simple fact is that terrorist attacks are not all that difficult to carry out. Our militaries are simply not designed to counter them.

What does he risk by attacking more often? I think he only stands to gain from constant attack, so I wonder why we don't see more of them. Even if he "has us where he wants us", surely he has to keep us there somehow?

 

[Smackety]

Let me summarize the quite easy complete beatdown i have administered to you official lie slurpers.


1. Hani is a very poor pilot
2.Hani did incredible things
3.Hani had never flown nor even been in a 757 simulator
4.All transponders were turned off on all flights
5.No highjack codes were transmitted by any airline pilots
6.Transponders being turned off puts Norad on high alert
7.Norad and the military had intercept aircraft minutes away from the Pentagon
8.77 flew around 40 minutes(at least)not being intercepted with no transponder on
9.Friends of Burlingame state he wouldnt have given up control of the plane(77)
10.There is ZERO evidence he was harmed in any way(and some in fact that he wasnt)
11.No intercepts occurred at all on 9/11. 93 is for another day.
12.Military brass stated that because of wargames, we were even better prepared than normal that morning.


Doesnt paint a pretty picture fellas, to the official story. And only "Hani did incredible things"is mildly debatable.

So...based on your "facts" how many people were "in on it"? Rounded to the nearest thousand will be fine.

 

[Drudgewire]

lie slurpers

 

[Smackety]

According to the drivel you swallow, Burlingame WAS IN THE BACK OF THE PLANE WITHOUT HIS THROAT CUT.

Is that truly the best you can do.

Is every pilot i quote stupid. Is a former Navy Commander and Pan Am pilot a liar because he says he can set a highjack code quickly. And none were able to?

The line you have in the water has no bait on it my friend. Continue to sit on the riverbank, waiting for a bite.

Hmm...start a fight in the cockpit and guarantee that everyone will die, or surrender and hope it is a hijack like all previous hijacks where the victims are eventually released?

 

[beachnut]

Let me summarize the quite easy complete beatdown i have administered to you official lie slurpers.


1. Hani is a very poor pilot
2.Hani did incredible things
3.Hani had never flown nor even been in a 757 simulator
4.All transponders were turned off on all flights
5.No highjack codes were transmitted by any airline pilots
6.Transponders being turned off puts Norad on high alert
7.Norad and the military had intercept aircraft minutes away from the Pentagon
8.77 flew around 40 minutes(at least)not being intercepted with no transponder on
9.Friends of Burlingame state he wouldnt have given up control of the plane(77)
10.There is ZERO evidence he was harmed in any way(and some in fact that he wasnt)
11.No intercepts occurred at all on 9/11. 93 is for another day.
12.Military brass stated that because of wargames, we were even better prepared than normal that morning.


Doesnt paint a pretty picture fellas, to the official story. And only "Hani did incredible things"is mildly debatable.

1. Hani was a better pilot than you are a researcher, because he was persistent to crash his jet? Funny stuff!
2. Hani flew sloppy like your research, and he crashed too!
3. Oops, a lie sort of, you should have researched this, you are now spreading false information by not telling the whole story.

Hani Hanjour practices on a Boeing 737-200 simulator for a total of 21 hours at the JetTech International flight school in Phoenix, Arizona. Hanjour also attends ground school and pays just under $7,500 for the training.

from a 9/11 truth friendly web site; A 737 is as hard or harder to fly.
4. No, one of the flights actually changed the transponder setting, you should read more.
5. The pilots must have been dead, or they would have set the transponders. Oops, the pilots were replaced with terrorist who killed them.
6. No, transponders do not make NORAD shoot you down! Sorry, I have lost my transponder before, and you have failed to come to a rational idea on this.
7. NORAD was not charged with shooting down planes without transponders on.
8. So, Payne Steward’s plane was flying 80 minutes before the USAF intercepted on request by the FAA. NORAD did not intercept it.
9. Then he must have been dead! Darn, you present evidence to prove yourself wrong! Good job.
10. You just presented evidence he was killed; but you missed your own logic.
11. It is not like the terrorist stuck around to be intercepted.
12. Yes, more people were available to help. Your point?
You are not making any real point. Why?

The ironic part is, no training was required for someone to take the plane and hit a building. As an instructor, I have seen people with the skills to hit buildings with a large jet on their first flight! Flying is easy for some, and the flying done on 9/11 was easy!

 

[bynmdsue]

hunh.I went away for the weekend and came back to find we've returned to 2005.

 

[David Wong]

LastChild/Roundhead will singlehandedly destroy this thread if you allow him to.

He doesn't possess anything close to the maturity level something like this requires.

 

[beachnut]

Hmm...start a fight in the cockpit and guarantee that everyone will die, or surrender and hope it is a hijack like all previous hijacks where the victims are eventually released?

It is hard to fight when you feel warm blood flowing across your chest! I doubt you have time to start a fight when you are bleeding out. Are you another no fact truther, or just making fun of dead pilots?

 

[lapman]

Let me summarize the quite easy complete beatdown i have administered to you official lie slurpers.


1. Hani is a very poor pilot

As has been shown numerous times, he was more than capable to fly the aircraft in the manner that he did.

2.Hani did incredible things

100% false statement. He did nothing that any and all pilots have learned to do.

Though it sounds like something from a flying circus, the corkscrew is actually a straightforward tactic that uses fairly standard piloting skills. Airline pilots sometimes use a similar maneuver, descending quickly through clouds to get under bad weather. With a little on-the-job training, spiraling down to the runway becomes second nature, says Kurt Neuenschwander, international chief pilot for Air Serv International, a nonprofit organization that flies relief workers and supplies into Iraq.

3.Hani had never flown nor even been in a 757 simulator

Completely irrelevant. I was able to successfully takeoff, fly and land the MD-80 simulator with only minor prompts from the instructor with ZERO flight time in any aircraft.

4.All transponders were turned off on all flights

Flt 175's transponder was on the entire time.

5.No highjack codes were transmitted by any airline pilots

Your cherry picked quote is nothing like reality. There isn't a single button that has "in case of hijack, press here." Depending on what code you are requested by ATC to squawk, you have to set up to 4 digits to get the hijack code. That is done with dials, not a keypad.

6.Transponders being turned off puts Norad on high alert

On 9/11, only aircraft ORIGINATING FROM OUTSIDE THE CONTINENTAL US with their transponders off would put NORAD on high alert.

7.Norad and the military had intercept aircraft minutes away from the Pentagon

100% false statement. Even if that were true, NORAD was not notified that 77 was hijacked until 2 minutes before it crashed, there is no way that they would have been able to take off, get to altitude, travel to target location, ID target, lock missiles and launch in 2 minutes. Even Griffins fictitious 10 minute intercept time is 5 times longer than reality.

8.77 flew around 40 minutes(at least)not being intercepted with no transponder on

Irrelevant since NORAD didn't launch aircraft just because a transponder is off. There is no way to tell if the transponder was deliberately turned off or it simply stopped working due to a malfunction, they had no reason to launch aircraft just because the transponder signal was lost when the aircraft was over the US.

9.Friends of Burlingame state he wouldnt have given up control of the plane(77)

Those friends obviously do not what the protocol was for pilots on 9/11 to follow in case of a hijacking.

10.There is ZERO evidence he was harmed in any way(and some in fact that he wasnt)

Irrelevant

11.No intercepts occurred at all on 9/11. 93 is for another day.

In each case, there was no time for said intercept, especially with 93 since NORAD wasn't notified that 93 was hijacked until AFTER it had crashed. Now if NORAD has a time machine, please post your evidence.

12.Military brass stated that because of wargames, we were even better prepared than normal that morning.

100% false statement. The had stated that the had trained for hijackings that originated OUTSIDE the continental US and involved flying to an airport for negotiations.

 

[Drudgewire]

It is hard to fight when you feel warm blood flowing across your chest! I doubt you have time to start a fight when you are bleeding out. Are you another no fact truther, or just making fun of dead pilots?

I could be wrong, but I think the point Smackety was making was it makes sense they wouldn't be fighting back since prior to 9/11 the MO of hijackings was to land the plane and make demands, and usually most folks survived them.

But then this thread has scrambled my brains a few times today.