What's the hijacker alive theory?

[Clippy]

Is their son alive? If not, how did he die?

Respectfully,
Myriad

Do you expect a serious answer to those questions?

 

[~enigma~]

Do you expect a serious answer to those questions?

Looks like he does. Why won't you answer?

 

[Par]

Let's look over the chain of evidence for some of the hijackers shall we?

1. Evidence from friends and family of Radicalisation.
2. Evidence of training in Al Qaeda terrorist camps.
3. Evidence of being selected for the "Planes Operation".
4. Evidence of training for "Planes Operation" and creation of martyr videos.
5. Evidence of entry into USA and link up with other members of "Planes Operation".
6. Evidence of purchasing of tickets for one of the hijacked flights on 9/11.
7. Evidence of having boarded one of the flights on 9/11.
8. Evidence of having been one of those that hijacked the aircraft.
9. Evidence that the aircraft was deliberately crashed into the target.
10. Evidence that the individual is now deceased.

That's not assumption, that's a chain of evidence that leads to a single undeniable conclusion. Several of the hijackers have this much evidence. If some of them were the real article that renders any "inside job" or "stolen identity" argument moot.

I was going to go down that list one by one but what's the point? Nothing you list there is positive identification of any one individual.

Unfortunately, your own personal incredulity counts for very little indeed, LC.

 

[Clippy]

As far as I know no family of the identified hijackers has offered DNA samples. But they were identified from DNA samples taken from their rental cars and hotel rooms, which matched remains found at the crash sites.

You do admit all those named were actually on the flights?

Here's a link with the offer from the family (the links to the original news sites are dead- conspiracy? )

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/essay.jsp?article=essayjarrah

Unless their DNA was registered in some databank, the only way to positively identify them is by comparing the samples to their families. Anonymous DNA on a toothbrush won't help you.

 

[Myriad]

Do you expect a serious answer to those questions?

Yes. Is that a problem?

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[Clippy]

Is their son alive? If not, how did he die?

Respectfully,
Myriad

I would prefer having the DNA evidence before answering those.

 

[T.A.M.]

Profanz made a falsifiable assertion based on a news article. Do you expect a new article coming out every year that updates the fact that nothing is new? It's funny how stroppy debunkers get when asked for evidence that supports the official version.

ETA: T.A.M., I'm not calling you stroppy.

Well I appreciate you not directing it at me, although I am a debunker, so by default you are...but anyway.

I get "stroppy" because you expect us to have this god-like access to all of the investigative evidence and materials, just as you think YOU should have access to such things.

I can't provide you with proof that all of the hijackers were identified using family provided DNA because I DO NOT HAVE ACCESS to all of the FBI and CORONER files on the matter...DO YOU??

I, unlike you, have faith that hundreds of workers for the FBI and the CORONER, would do their best to obtain such IF, AS PROFESSIONALS IN THE AREA OF CONCERN (unlike you and I) felt that doing such was neccessary.

TAM

 

[1337m4n]

Isn't the onus on you to provide evidence that it happened?

Pragmatically speaking, the burden of proof has been and always will be on the Truthers, simply because the Truthers are the ones trying to change the status quo.

We "debunkers" could all just up and quit right now, and the general public would still be on our side and there would still be no new investigation.

The same cannot be said of Truthers. It is Truthers who are actively trying to change the minds of the American public. It is Truthers who want to hunt down the "real perps" of 9/11. It is Truthers who want their to be an entirely new investigation into the events of 9/11. And none of that is going to happen simply by virtue of a debunker failing to prove his argument--it will only happen by a Truther successfully proving his.

Think about it this way: if you gave a speech in front of the entire country in which all you said was "You can't prove 9/11 WASN'T an inside job!", you would convince zero people. That is why, in pragmatic terms, the Truthers will ALWAYS have the burden of proof.

And so is the case here. You think the hijackers are still alive; well, the American public is interested in seeing your proof. They're not interested in seeing mine because they're already on my side.

 

[Profanz]

That's not assumption, that's a chain of evidence that leads to a single undeniable conclusion. Several of the hijackers have this much evidence. If some of them were the real article that renders any "inside job" or "stolen identity" argument moot.

A chain of what evidence, linked to what, and how? The hijacker remains have not been DNA identified period. They obviously talked to some families of the accused hijackers to build their circumstantial case so why didn't they just get DNA samples from them? And if the response to this is more hand waving and claiming that they didn't need to do DNA testing to families to positively identify hijackers then why was it done for everyone else who died on 9/11?

 

[Par]

Unless their DNA was registered in some databank, the only way to positively identify them is by comparing the samples to their families.

That, of course, is a false dichotomy. If you obtain samples you can be reasonably certain came from that same person – as was the case with the hijackers – then a match can be made.

 

[T.A.M.]

Here is a question Clippy.

If the USG and the NEOCONS were evil enough to orchestrate and help carry out an attack on the american people that killed 3,000 people, then why was it so hard for them to plant remains of chared individuals at each of the sites, and have already, DNA and passport info etc...matching up perfectly with the bodies?

In otherwords, in fewer words, if the evil doers were capable of orchestrating such a complex and evil plot, WHY WERE THEY SO ****ING DUMB, that they could not come up with DNA matches for all of the hijackers?

Now don't give me some "falacy" this, or "argumentum" that, just answer the godamn question!

Thanks

TAM

 

[Par]

That's not assumption, that's a chain of evidence that leads to a single undeniable conclusion. Several of the hijackers have this much evidence. If some of them were the real article that renders any "inside job" or "stolen identity" argument moot.

A chain of what evidence, linked to what, and how? The hijacker remains have not been DNA identified period. They obviously talked to some families of the accused hijackers to build their circumstantial case so why didn't they just get DNA samples from them? And if the response to this is more hand waving and claiming that they didn't need to do DNA testing to families to positively identify hijackers then why was it done for everyone else who died on 9/11?

The quotation is misattributed.

 

[Par]

A chain of what evidence, linked to what, and how? The hijacker remains have not been DNA identified period.

False; sorry.

 

[T.A.M.]

The hijacker remains have not been DNA identified period.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2808599.stm

Forensic experts in New York say they have identified body parts of two of the 10 hijackers who flew planes into the World Trade Center on 11 September 2001.

Ellen Borakove, a spokeswoman for the New York Medical Examiner's Office, said the identifications had been made using DNA samples provided by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI).

The FBI had collected the DNA from tiny traces of skin on the steering wheels of vehicles hired by the hijackers and from hair samples recovered from their hotel rooms.

Earlier this month, the FBI provided profiles of all 10 hijackers, including alleged ringleader Mohammad Atta, so their remains could be separated from those of victims.

"No names were attached to those profiles. We matched them, and we have matched two of those profiles to remains that we have," Ms Borakove said.

"We haven't finished our work, so it may be more," she added.

Wait for it (that the FBi were in on it)...wait for it....

TAM

 

[~enigma~]

I would prefer having the DNA evidence before answering those.

In the trial of Zacharias Moussaoui there was a java app diagramming and tagging ALL the DNA found at the pentagon. Are you claiming the courts are in on it and why were you not protesting for his innocence? or do you really think he was guilty and the exhibit of the DNA was accurate in which case you can stop being foolish.

 

[Clippy]

That, of course, is a false dichotomy. If you obtain samples you can be reasonably certain came from that same person – as was the case with the hijackers – then a match can be made.

You're just begging the question here, Par. Face it: there was no positive match based on DNA evidence. I don't know why people can't just admit this.

 

[T.A.M.]

You're just begging the question here, Par. Face it: there was no positive match based on DNA evidence. I don't know why people can't just admit this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2808599.stm

Forensic experts in New York say they have identified body parts of two of the 10 hijackers who flew planes into the World Trade Center on 11 September 2001.

Ellen Borakove, a spokeswoman for the New York Medical Examiner's Office, said the identifications had been made using DNA samples provided by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI).

The FBI had collected the DNA from tiny traces of skin on the steering wheels of vehicles hired by the hijackers and from hair samples recovered from their hotel rooms.

Earlier this month, the FBI provided profiles of all 10 hijackers, including alleged ringleader Mohammad Atta, so their remains could be separated from those of victims.

"No names were attached to those profiles. We matched them, and we have matched two of those profiles to remains that we have," Ms Borakove said.

"We haven't finished our work, so it may be more," she added.

TAM

 

[~enigma~]

A chain of what evidence, linked to what, and how? The hijacker remains have not been DNA identified period. They obviously talked to some families of the accused hijackers to build their circumstantial case so why didn't they just get DNA samples from them? And if the response to this is more hand waving and claiming that they didn't need to do DNA testing to families to positively identify hijackers then why was it done for everyone else who died on 9/11?

Was the evidence introduced in court that detailed where and whom had DNA found in the pentagon faked? If so, why weren't you protesting for the release of an innocent man and are you claiming the courts are now in on your wet dream of a conspiracy?

 

[Clippy]

Here is a question Clippy.

If the USG and the NEOCONS were evil enough to orchestrate and help carry out an attack on the american people that killed 3,000 people, then why was it so hard for them to plant remains of chared individuals at each of the sites, and have already, DNA and passport info etc...matching up perfectly with the bodies?

In otherwords, in fewer words, if the evil doers were capable of orchestrating such a complex and evil plot, WHY WERE THEY SO ****ING DUMB, that they could not come up with DNA matches for all of the hijackers?

Now don't give me some "falacy" this, or "argumentum" that, just answer the godamn question!

Thanks

TAM

Because that would require an impossibly large conspiracy

 

[T.A.M.]

So has the argument now degraded to "the evil doers faked the DNA matches for the WTCs (see above article I have linked) but were TOO DUMB to do the same for the Pentagon"?

Or are the truthers here willing to admit that the DNA matching done by the NYC Coroner was correct?

TAM