What's the hijacker alive theory?

[gumboot]

In the end, through the power of clarity, the actual claim is usually revealed to be: "People with the same names as the hijackers are alive!" To which a reasonable answer is, "so what?"

It's not even that. It's; "people with similar names to the hijackers are alive!".

Hold the press!

 

[Clippy]

And we know who was on the aircraft because of the flight manifests. It's called collaborating evidence.

Was that a Freudian slip?

 

[Myriad]

The issue here is whether the DNA samples match the names given. If not, then those identified as the hijackers may still be alive.

No, please check the thread title and the OP. The issue is, are any of the hijackers alive? And if so, how is that possible, since to be hijackers they had to be aboard the planes and the planes crashed with no survivors?

Are you claiming any hijackers are alive?

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[gumboot]

Was that a Freudian slip?

Howso?

 

[Clippy]

No, please check the thread title and the OP. The issue is, are any of the hijackers alive? And if so, how is that possible, since to be hijackers they had to be aboard the planes and the planes crashed with no survivors?

Are you claiming any hijackers are alive?

Respectfully,
Myriad

Hello all. I'm inquiring about the charge CTers use about the hijackers being alive. What's the thinking behind this theory? Can anyone link anything that would debunk this?

'Those identified by the FBI as hijackers are still alive'. This a common charge by CTers. I don't see this as off-topic.

I'm not claiming there were no hijackers. I would only like to see the evidence that they were positively identified. And as far as I know, the FBI never took the Jarrah family up on their offer to provide DNA to positively identify their son.

 

[fullflavormenthol]

Howso?

I think he is trying to distinguish between collaborative and corroborative evidence, and using colloborative in some sort of negative sense.

 

[Myriad]

'Those identified by the FBI as hijackers are still alive'. This a common charge by CTers. I don't see this as off-topic.

I'm not claiming there were no hijackers. I would only like to see the evidence that they were positively identified. And as far as I know, the FBI never took the Jarrah family up on their offer to provide DNA to positively identify their son.

Okay, you're not claiming there were no hijackers. That's a start. And yet somehow, complete clarity still eludes us. Regardless of whom the FBI did or didn't identify, are you claiming that any of the actual hijackers are alive?

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[CptColumbo]

Who was the guy claiming that Israeli commandos hijacked the planes and bailed out before impact?

 

[Undesired Walrus]

Jarrah's passport was found in the rubble, as was his uncle's business card with Bin AlShibh's Hamburg address on the back. He was on the flight manifests. He also appeared next to Mohammed Atta in a suicide video from Jan 2000 in Afghansitan where Bin Laden was giving a talk. Binalshibh was sending money to Jarrah and Atta. Binalshibh was in a video with Bin Laden and gave details of his relationship with Jarrah in an audio tape in 2002. Jarrah's girlfriend spoke of Jarrah wishing to die in the name of Islam.

 

[Clippy]

Okay, you're not claiming there were no hijackers. That's a start. And yet somehow, complete clarity still eludes us. Regardless of whom the FBI did or didn't identify, are you claiming that any of the actual hijackers are alive?

Respectfully,
Myriad

No.

 

[~enigma~]

No.

So your saying what exactly?

 

[Myriad]

No.

Excellent. Clarity achieved. So, we're talking about possible cases of mistaken identity of the hijackers -- who did exist and (by definition) did hijack the planes.

Now, when there is a case of mistaken identity about who committed a crime, two very bad consequences immediately ensue. (I'm not saying these are the only consequence, but they're the most obvious, so let's deal with them first.)

1. The actual perpetrator gets away with it. At least, until the mistaken identity is realized.

2. The falsely accused person suffers from the false accusation, including (again depending on when or whether the mistaken identity is realized) being punished undeservedly for the crime.

Now, since no actual hijackers are alive, problem #1 does not arise in this case. (That's why it was important to clarify that beforehand.)

That leaves problem #2. People being allowed to suffer as a result of false accusation is horrifying to me. Indeed, it's something most civilized people abhor and many fear, as a quick perusal of our literature will verify.

So, who are these innocent people, and what consequences are they suffering as a result of being falsely identified as hijackers? Do they need money, and if so, where can I donate to their cause?

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[WildCat]

Who was the guy claiming that Israeli commandos hijacked the planes and bailed out before impact?

A-Train.

 

[CptColumbo]

A-Train.

Thank you, that will narrow my search.

 

[Profanz]

Let's look over the chain of evidence for some of the hijackers shall we?

1. Evidence from friends and family of Radicalisation.
2. Evidence of training in Al Qaeda terrorist camps.
3. Evidence of being selected for the "Planes Operation".
4. Evidence of training for "Planes Operation" and creation of martyr videos.
5. Evidence of entry into USA and link up with other members of "Planes Operation".
6. Evidence of purchasing of tickets for one of the hijacked flights on 9/11.
7. Evidence of having boarded one of the flights on 9/11.
8. Evidence of having been one of those that hijacked the aircraft.
9. Evidence that the aircraft was deliberately crashed into the target.
10. Evidence that the individual is now deceased.

I was going to go down that list one by one but what's the point? Nothing you list there is positive identification of any one individual. Evidence the individual is deceased has got to be the most laughable. There are more deceased people that have occupied this planet then living ones so good luck with that process of elimination.

You can all do your debunking dance of stamping your feet and waving your arms all you want just don't tell me it's evidence of positive identification of any of the said hijackers aboard a plane that was also never positively identified with serial numbers.

Now you debunkers are the ones who claim to know. So show your proof not your faith.

 

[Myriad]

I was going to go down that list one by one but what's the point? Nothing you list there is positive identification of any one individual. Evidence the individual is deceased has got to be the most laughable. There are more deceased people that have occupied this planet then living ones so good luck with that process of elimination.

You can all do your debunking dance of stamping your feet and waving your arms all you want just don't tell me it's evidence of positive identification of any of the said hijackers aboard a plane that was also never positively identified with serial numbers.

Now you debunkers are the ones who claim to know. So show your proof not your faith.

Profanz, are you claiming that there were no hijackers on the planes, that the planes did not crash with no survivors, or that any actual hijackers are alive?

It not, perhaps you can answer the question I put to Clippy in my previous post.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[Clippy]

Excellent. Clarity achieved. So, we're talking about possible cases of mistaken identity of the hijackers -- who did exist and (by definition) did hijack the planes.

Now, when there is a case of mistaken identity about who committed a crime, two very bad consequences immediately ensue. (I'm not saying these are the only consequence, but they're the most obvious, so let's deal with them first.)

1. The actual perpetrator gets away with it. At least, until the mistaken identity is realized.

2. The falsely accused person suffers from the false accusation, including (again depending on when or whether the mistaken identity is realized) being punished undeservedly for the crime.

Now, since no actual hijackers are alive, problem #1 does not arise in this case. (That's why it was important to clarify that beforehand.)

That leaves problem #2. People being allowed to suffer as a result of false accusation is horrifying to me. Indeed, it's something most civilized people abhor and many fear, as a quick perusal of our literature will verify.

So, who are these innocent people, and what consequences are they suffering as a result of being falsely identified as hijackers? Do they need money, and if so, where can I donate to their cause?

Respectfully,
Myriad

I think #2 is what motivated Jarrah's family to offer DNA samples. I don't know if they need money, but I also don't know if their son is innocent.

 

[Myriad]

I think #2 is what motivated Jarrah's family to offer DNA samples. I don't know if they need money, but I also don't know if their son is innocent.

Is their son alive? If not, how did he die?

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[WildCat]

I think #2 is what motivated Jarrah's family to offer DNA samples. I don't know if they need money, but I also don't know if their son is innocent.

As far as I know no family of the identified hijackers has offered DNA samples. But they were identified from DNA samples taken from their rental cars and hotel rooms, which matched remains found at the crash sites.

You do admit all those named were actually on the flights?

 

[MikeW]

Isn't the onus on you to provide evidence that it happened?

Profanz stated clearly that "none of the hijacker remains were DNA matched to their living family members". That's the point I'm questioning, as I believe it's speculation dressed up as fact, so no, there's no burden of proof on me at all.