StopSylviaBrowne - I Speak With Sylvia Browne

CFLarsen said:
No, it holds, precisely because she does claim to know what it feels like to communicate with "the other side". She does not - like you and I - express doubts: She is right, and forcefully so. She is a regular bulldozer when it comes to being right.
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No argument there.

But we don't know why the advice she gives is sometimes wrong. It could be that those on the other side err, or that she picks up different signals that she cannot distinguish from the real ones.

and again, I fully agree on how she deals with this: If I know I am sometimes wrong (and especially if I cannot tell the difference between being right and wrong at the time) it behoves me to be very modest and careful.

She is most certainly not, and that makes her dangerous and untrustworthy even if she was a psychic with a 80% success rate.

As always, we have to go with what is actually claimed - not what we think ourselves is reasonable. Sylvia does not express doubt, even when she is later wrong.
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Yes.

Ergo, she does not know when she is wrong, but has to wait for feedback and later verification - and she knows this.
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Yes.

Ergo, she knows she is not psychic.
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No. This doesn't follow.

If I regularly and conveniently dreamt about future lottery numbers on the nights from Thursday to Friday (giving me all of Friday to fill in as many tickets as i feel like) and if those numbers turned out to be the ones actually drawn on the weekend, that would give me a paranormal ability, right?

Now, if the 6 numbers I dream off are only 80% accurate so that most of the time only 4 or 5 of them will show in the actual draw, would that suddenly mean I had no paranormal ability? Even if I had no idea which of the numbers I dreamed of would actually show up during the game and which ones were just dreamt up by me, as it were?

No, I would still have a paranormal ability. If I only played the numbers I'd be dreaming about I would probably hit the jackpot once every two months or so.

So, there is no reason to assume that Sylvia ought to be able to tell a difference between the 80% of her predictions that are certain and the 20% where she is wrong. That she always acts as if she was certain is wrong of her, but doesn't tell you anything about her alleged abilities one way or the other. (In my above example it is immaterial of how certain I am, too. As long as I accurately remember my dreams and play those numbers it doesn't matter: I can be doubtful or absolutely certain that I'll get it right - it will not influence my actual success rate.)
 
I just realized something.

After having spent a fair amount of time on these forums defending Claus' middle name, I finally know how to pronounce it correctly!

(Ancient forum history...) ;)
 
Well I finally got to read the article (for some reason I couldn't link it this morning) and I want to congratulate all of you on a great job. Too bad it wasn't taped.
And Claus, since when did you pick up an American accent? When youse was in Gnu Yak, youse sounded sorta mid-Atlantic.
 
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Lisa Simpson said:
In American English, 'insure' and 'ensure' mean the same thing.
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Interesting... I always understood insure to be related to "insurance" and involve basically making something happen in case something else happens (i.e. an insurance payout for an injury) while ensure meant to make absolutely certain of something (i.e. ensure that you brought enough money for dinner).

From www.m-w.com

en·sure Listen to the pronunciation of ensure
Pronunciation:
\in-ˈshu̇r\
Function:
transitive verb
Inflected Form(s):
en·sured; en·sur·ing
Etymology:
Middle English, from Anglo-French ensurer, alteration of assurer — more at assure
Date:
1660

: to make sure, certain, or safe : guarantee
synonyms ensure, insure, assure, secure mean to make a thing or person sure. ensure, insure, and assure are interchangeable in many contexts where they indicate the making certain or inevitable of an outcome, but ensure may imply a virtual guarantee <the government has ensured the safety of the refugees>, while insure sometimes stresses the taking of necessary measures beforehand <careful planning should insure the success of the party>, and assure distinctively implies the removal of doubt and suspense from a person's mind <I assure you that no harm will be done>. secure implies action taken to guard against attack or loss <sent reinforcements to secure their position>.
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So... uh, I dunno. I guess either is acceptable, and at least according to m-w their insure example probably fits better.

Funny how you can go ages thinking you know some quirk of the English language only to find out you've been wrong (or at least not particularly right) the whole time.


Anyway, enough diction discussion. Excellent article.
 
cafink said:
This is the first I've heard that. I'd have considered Robert's usage erroneous, as well.
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From The Oxford Collegiate American Dictionary:
USAGE: there is considerable overlap between meaning and usage of insure and ensure. In both British and American English the primary meaning of insure is the commercial sense of providing financial compensation in the event of damage to property; ensure is not used at all in this sense. For the more general senses, ensure is more likely to be used, but insure and ensure are often interchangeable particularly in U.S. English.
 
rjh01 said:
You failed to point out she defrauded some of her own supporters. Some people paid extra to be sure of asking her a question. However they could have saved some money because everyone asked her a question.
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It appears to me that her raffle system for the normal paying customers to ask questions is a complete scam. Everyone probably gets to ask questions at every show (especially in such a small room), but she wants the moolah from the high value customers, so she sells them a "guarenteed" question ticket. Many of them would feel ripped off if she then just had all of the the plebes ask questions too, so she goes through this raffle scam.
 
Very interesting article RSL.

Sylvia now knows that you've got balls as well as brains and that you're not just an armchair cynic.

I really respect you for doing what you did.
 
Awesome read!
Mayhaps Mr. Larsen would care to procure tickets for me to attend an old geezer rock and roll festival where I shall pose the question to the members of REO Speedwagon: "Do you feel you were totally ripped off by Elton John?"
 
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Rasmus said:
No argument there.

But we don't know why the advice she gives is sometimes wrong. It could be that those on the other side err, or that she picks up different signals that she cannot distinguish from the real ones.
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If it were the other side that erred, she would have an even bigger problem: Then, we couldn't trust anything she said, because the spirits (or whatever) would not be trustworthy. But the whole idea of asking the other side is that they are not wrong: They have an insight we don't.

If she couldn't distinguish between the spirits, then we also couldn't trust anything she said, because she would then be a crappy medium.

Since none of these apply, the point I made stands.

Rasmus said:
and again, I fully agree on how she deals with this: If I know I am sometimes wrong (and especially if I cannot tell the difference between being right and wrong at the time) it behoves me to be very modest and careful.

She is most certainly not, and that makes her dangerous and untrustworthy even if she was a psychic with a 80% success rate.
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Yep.

Rasmus said:
No. This doesn't follow.

If I regularly and conveniently dreamt about future lottery numbers on the nights from Thursday to Friday (giving me all of Friday to fill in as many tickets as i feel like) and if those numbers turned out to be the ones actually drawn on the weekend, that would give me a paranormal ability, right?

Now, if the 6 numbers I dream off are only 80% accurate so that most of the time only 4 or 5 of them will show in the actual draw, would that suddenly mean I had no paranormal ability? Even if I had no idea which of the numbers I dreamed of would actually show up during the game and which ones were just dreamt up by me, as it were?

No, I would still have a paranormal ability. If I only played the numbers I'd be dreaming about I would probably hit the jackpot once every two months or so.

So, there is no reason to assume that Sylvia ought to be able to tell a difference between the 80% of her predictions that are certain and the 20% where she is wrong. That she always acts as if she was certain is wrong of her, but doesn't tell you anything about her alleged abilities one way or the other. (In my above example it is immaterial of how certain I am, too. As long as I accurately remember my dreams and play those numbers it doesn't matter: I can be doubtful or absolutely certain that I'll get it right - it will not influence my actual success rate.)
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No, no: You miss the point. The point isn't whether or not she really has paranormal abilities, but whether or not she knows if she is throwing out guesses.

If you knew that you would have to check the numbers afterwards, you also would be having doubts whenever you had had a dream. But Sylvia doesn't do that: She is dead-sure(!) every time. Yet, she has to wait for verification (in those cases where it can be determined).

Jeff Corey said:
And Claus, since when did you pick up an American accent? When youse was in Gnu Yak, youse sounded sorta mid-Atlantic.
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If youse is-a referring to d'English, youse would-a be-a right-a.

Wolrab said:
Mayhaps Mr. Larsen would care to procure tickets for me to attend an old geezer rock and roll festival where I shall pose the question to the members of REO Speedwagon: "Do you feel you were totally ripped off by Elton John?"
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No. :)
 
Great article RSL! All the good stuff everybody else said, plus I imagine that was quite stressful, and even more so knowing that you were planning to make it into an article. You were a perfect gentleman as always, and are making it very difficult for Sylvia fans to go along with the dastardly dark entity image that Sylvia would have them believe of you. How did you manage to come up with such great answers on the spot? Personally I think it's because you are not just "trying" to act like a respectful, logical, thoughtful individual but you in fact ARE one, which shows even when you are under duress!

It's too bad about Montel having another show, though, with Sylvia going to be on it. Rats.

Though maybe we can put as much weight on THAT statement as the one where she claims her voice is only raspy because of the Las Vegas weather. And to have graduated in 1982 with a Master's in English. I'll be interested to see what your research turns up on that one.

And thanks to Claus, too, for providing the opportunity for it to happen.
 
CFLarsen said:
No, no: You miss the point. The point isn't whether or not she really has paranormal abilities, but whether or not she knows if she is throwing out guesses.
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She clearly doesn't seem to be aware of whether she is making accurate or inaccurate statements.

But that has nothing to do with the source of all her statements. At least I am not aware of any claims that the other side would be infallible. I am not aware of any explanation she gave as to why she sometimes get things wrong.

But whatever the explanation, whatever the source of her errors, it wouldn't mean that she doesn't have paranormal abilities.

It *would* mean that those are unreliable to a degree, and that it would be stupid of her or her customers to ignore her 20% error rate! It would make it just as irresponsible of her to give advise the way she does as if she didn't have any powers at all... but it wouldn't mean that she didn't have the power she claims to have.
 
Quick thought.

Claus, are you sure that Flodin was your biological grandfather, and not some guy named Howard? Maybe SB knows something that you don't.

It reminds me of one of my favorite (clean) jokes. A computer scientist unveils a machine that he claims to have the answer to any question. A reporter on the scene asks, "Where is my father?" The computer's reply: "He is fishing in Minnesota". "Wrong!" says the reporter triumphantly, "My father has been dead for several years!" "Let's try rephrasing the question," says the computer scientist. "This man standing here before you, where is his mother's husband?" The computer replies, "His mother's husband has been dead for several years. His father is fishing in Minnesota."
 
Claus,
Think about this.
We worked at TAM 6 together.
I have a very close friend whose last name is Howard.
Spooky Huh?
 
wahrheit said:
What an extremely lame move from Browne to call security for no reason whatsoever. Like some cry-baby that didn't get her candy - a scene caused by you - she switched to provocation. She simply wanted to see you in trouble.



Seconded. As a bonus we now know what the F in CFL means. :)

My favorite:



:newlol Her psychic abilities are really astounding.
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You know though you gotta wonder just how many of those other people saw what she was doing and have some differing opinions about her now.
I would have to say Robert may just have taken a few more away from her by just letting Sylvia be just has stupid has possible.
 
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