Lord Language Resurrection.

[The_Fire]

??? He doesn't promote German as universal second language, does he?

No, but it was meant to predict a couple of not-nice remarks on his part if pressed on the point of why he hates english.

****, this way your remark becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy

Not meant to be. But it depends on what he's going to do next.

FWIW: I wasn't expecting the Godwin from you. Sorry it looked that way. Can I grab the "English is my second language" defense at this point?

 

[ddt]

No, but it was meant to predict a couple of not-nice remarks on his part if pressed on the point of why he hates english.

OK, fair enough. My intention was to probably leave it at the 2 cents .

Not meant to be. But it depends on what he's going to do next.

We'll see. Maybe he ignores it.

FWIW: I wasn't expecting the Godwin from you. Sorry it looked that way. Can I grab the "English is my second language" defense at this point?

Then I grab the "English is my second language" defense for misinterpreting your remark . No, I didn't interpret it as you pointing at anyone in particular for going to Godwinize the thread - I just didn't see where it would come in.

 

[Nationalcosmopolitan]

This would require a global agency tasked with examining every child on the planet, and punishing those parents who fail to meet your standard.

Who fail to make their children trilingual persons with three natively known languages they have chosen for them.

Aside from being a major invasion of personal rights and privacy, and aside from the sheer logistical absurdity, a global agency authorized by a religious body is something I, and many other people, would fight tooth and nail.

Today parents that refuse to send their children to school or refuse to give their children literacy are punished for making damage for their children.
In post monolingual world the same sort damage for their children will make parents that refuse to form from their children trilingual person.
So they have to be punished.

I can tell you more.
In the future world of general high education degree for everybody all people who makes barrier to the young man to achieve high-level education degree in every profession he wants will be punished.

And the same ways we have do with parents all over the world that urge to form from their children monolingual persons in the case when society pays for triligualisation of their children according their free three languages election.

Your posts suggest an ulterior motive for your dislike of English as second language, viz. that your own English is lousy.

The same level of English have today 1400 millions of so called English as second language speaking persons all over the world.

That why I urge to give the languages to children natively or not to give them languages at all.
We have not form billions of lingual disable persons, mostly English disable persons.

Give three languages to the children to know natively chosen freely from all world languages list. And you will solve the problem for 20 years.
World will become trilingual persons world.

but stuffing your crap in their kids' pockets is tantamount to abuse

All languages and cultures will become crap in monolingual totally speaking English world we all trend to go, except may be Hebrew and Arabic for because Torah and Koran.

 

[six7s]

Today parents that refuse to send their children to school or refuse to give their children literacy are punished for making damage for their children.

Yeah? Which regime are you thinking of when you say that?

Oh, and as you (conveniently?) ignored my questions from the other day, I'll simply repost them:

Punished? How? and By whom?

In the future world of general high education degree for everybody

And I thought Nicolas Negroponte was an idealist...

I can see it now:

ODPC​

election.

You keep using this word, and it never makes sense... please, get a better dictionary

All languages and cultures will become crap in monolingual totally speaking English world we all trend to go, except may be Hebrew and Arabic for because Torah and Koran.

Huh? They can't GO crap? Ah, I hear what you saying: "because Torah and Koran" they already are

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

On the one hand, English is becoming the universal language. The French are going to have to give in soon.

On the other hand, it's been said (in some Outer Limits episode if I recall), the smarter person ends up learning the other person's language. It's obvious why.

I do believe native English speakers on the whole are less often multilingual than the native speakers of the other major languages. So it seems to support both hypotheses.

 

[ddt]

Who fail to make their children trilingual persons with three natively known languages they have chosen for them.

You have failed to indicate where you get the third parent to teach the third language. Truly bilingual children have heard two languages from childbirth.

Your posts suggest an ulterior motive for your dislike of English as second language, viz. that your own English is lousy.

The same level of English have today 1400 millions of so called English as second language speaking persons all over the world.

I disagree. Several posters have in this thread commented in one way or another, on your poor command of English. You may notice there are a lot of posters on this board who have English as a second language and don't get such comments. So there are many out there with English as second language who are doing just fine.

That why I urge to give the languages to children natively or not to give them languages at all. We have not form billions of lingual disable persons, mostly English disable persons.

Not giving language to a child is a severe abuse. When children haven't been exposed to language at kindergarten age, they'll never learn it. And "English disabled", no, the world has gotten used to it. Most children nowadays (at least in 1st world countries) are exposed to English from a young age anyway.

All languages and cultures will become crap in monolingual totally speaking English world we all trend to go, except may be Hebrew and Arabic for because Torah and Koran.

The world is doing perfectly fine this way. No cultures are becoming crap because people learn English besides their mother tongue. If that were the case, the Swiss and the Belgians would have had a degenerate culture already for decades.

 

[six7s]

the smarter person ends up learning the other person's language. It's obvious why.

Pardon mon francaise, but bollocks

If it was in any way accurate, then parents would learn to speak dribblese and sheep would learn to speak Australian

I do believe native English speakers on the whole are less often multilingual than the native speakers of the other major languages.

I'd agree if you were simply talking about those affluent enuff to be tourists/business travellers/etc...

<anecdote>

However, I'd be very reluctant to use such a broad brush to paint the hoi-polloi stuck-at-homes that I have encountered in the baker's dozen countries that I've traveled around so far​

</anecdote>

 

[Hokulele]

Today parents that refuse to send their children to school or refuse to give their children literacy are punished for making damage for their children.

Umm, what? Have you been to a third world country recently?

In post monolingual world the same sort damage for their children will make parents that refuse to form from their children trilingual person.
So they have to be punished.

Your obsession with punishment is very troubling.

I can tell you more.

Darn.

In the future world of general high education degree for everybody all people who makes barrier to the young man to achieve high-level education degree in every profession he wants will be punished.

You have absolutely no idea how education and social dynamics work in most of the world, do you?

 

[six7s]

You have absolutely no idea how education and social dynamics work in most of the world, do you?

| No idea
+ | No experience
+ | No influence
= | No problem

_____________________
ETA: I have no idea how I managed to include that red thumbs down icon

 

[jimbob]

It is appropriate though six7s.

I am not worried about monoglots, but several posters seem more like demiglots

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Pardon mon francaise, but bollocks

If it was in any way accurate, then parents would learn to speak dribblese and sheep would learn to speak Australian



I'd agree if you were simply talking about those affluent enuff to be tourists/business travellers/etc...

<anecdote>

However, I'd be very reluctant to use such a broad brush to paint the hoi-polloi stuck-at-homes that I have encountered in the baker's dozen countries that I've traveled around so far​

</anecdote>

Sheep are not people and dribblese is not a language, it is mouth part practice.

The comment was not meant as some universal truth. The reference to Outer Limits was your clue. And there was a winky in there. Sheesh.

On a more serious note, there are multiple factors here. The English language has in modern times, dominated the scientific research, not to say there are no scientists publishing in other languages, there are plenty. But English happens to have the majority.

Colonizers brought their political and economic powers to the countries they colonized so European languages spread around the world by areas conquered.

And English remains a language learned for economic reasons by many cultures still. It isn't the only one. A lot of bilingual countries speak French and the original native tongue.

I think some languages were handicapped with the modern printing industry and now keyboards that use the English alphabet. Chinese probably lost a bit of ground simply owing to the complexity of the characters in the written form.

Bottom line, there are lots of factors which culminate in the universal language of globalization. I don't see how you can make much of a case for that being any language except English, but I don't rule out something in the future shifting that trend before it is finalized. However, the odds are not high it will change. English is already quite a ways along in becoming the global language.

 

[jimbob]

Isn't it simply that those with the greater need or motivation to learn the different language will.

The Welsh learned to speak English becuse they were punished if they didn't. They were also punished if they spoke Welah. This was especially important at primary school.

The language of administration of the BritishRoman Empire was EnglishLatin. Speaking it was useful for advancement, and as a status indicator. Schools in the British Empire would teach English.

After the industrial revolution, the UK and then the US were the largest economies and the most powerful countries. If you wanted to do business in these countries you needed to speak English, if you wanted to learn a single other language, English gave you access to the largest market, especially as you could also do business with people form other countries who also wanted to do business with the US or UK.

 

[Complexity]

NationalCosmopolitan - I'm really going to enjoy watching you writhe in frustration for the rest of your life while you are utterly ignored.

 

[six7s]

dribblese is not a language, it is mouth part practice.

... Sheesh

Sheesh indeed

I assumed it would be obvious that I was being somewhat flippant

However, dribblese is a language, or at least method of communication - one that clever parents are rewarded by efforts to understand

The reference to Outer Limits was your clue

A clue far too cryptic for me I'm afraid... Being a less than avid tv watcher - and even less inlined towards sci-fi (unless the number 42 features prominently ), I was completely unaware of the series

Sheep are not people

Two legs good, four legs baad?

 

[six7s]

NationalCosmopolitan - I'm really going to enjoy watching you writhe in frustration for the rest of your life while you are utterly ignored.

Does that count as a fail on the Turing Test?


______________________
ETA: apparently, he was a homosexual

 

[Complexity]

Does that count as a fail on the Turing Test?


______________________
ETA: apparently, he was a homosexual

Yep. NC is a person - I have far too much respect for machines to mistake him for one.

What a very, very silly thing to waste one's life on.

If only he'd do it silently, in a corner, and out of sight of the childen.

 

[wollery]

Nationalcosmopolitan, as a former teacher, may I just say that your plan is both idiotic, and unworkable.

First, you want to force everyone in the world to adhere to a plan based on your own particular religious convictions, and the vast majority of the world's population will tell you where you can shove that idea.

Second, some people just suck at languages. It's a fact. The same way some people suck at maths, or science, or telling jokes. That's just the way we are. Some people are so bad at languages that they can't even speak their own single mother tongue correctly. And you want these people to learn 2 additional languages. Even if you could get everyone to agree to your plan, it wouldn't work, because there will be huge numbers of kids who just can't cope with learning more than one language.

Third, even if you could get everyone to agree to your plan, AND every kid in the world had the capability, loads of those kids would simply refuse to pay attention in class, and would refuse to do their 3rd language homework. That's just reality. And anyone who's ever taught in a school will confirm it.

Fourthly, as has already been pointed out by others, to be a native bilingual requires that one either have parents with different native languages, or one grows up in a country which has a different native language to your parents.

I actually know 3 kids who are natively trilingual - their father is Australian, their mother is Finnish, and they're growing up in China, so they speak English, Finnish, and Chinese, all like native speakers.

And that really is the only way to work it. Which means that, for your plan to work, everybody in the world world would have to have kids with a partner who speaks a different language from them, AND live in a country which speaks a third language. Of course, if everyone in the world did this, then the country they moved to for the third language would be completely depopulated of native speakers, and full of speakers of all sorts of other languages, and the kids would grow up surrounded by people speaking so many different languages that nobody would be able to talk to anybody else! And then, of course, you'd have the problem of schooling, because all the teachers would speak their own language, and without a common language the kids' educations would suffer. You'd end up with a world in which meaningful communication was pretty much impossible in day to day life, and everyone grew up knowing little bits of dozens of languages.

It would be anarchy.

It's also utterly pointless.

 

[devnull]

He's right about one thing though - parent's are fined (and worse) here for refusing to school their children. Doesn't happen too often these days though (refusing to school that is).

 

[six7s]

...for your plan to work, everybody in the world world would have to have kids with a partner who speaks a different language from them, AND live in a country which speaks a third language. Of course, if everyone in the world did this, then the country they moved to for the third language would be completely depopulated of native speakers, and full of speakers of all sorts of other languages, and the kids would grow up surrounded by people speaking so many different languages that nobody would be able to talk to anybody else! And then, of course, you'd have the problem of schooling, because all the teachers would speak their own language, and without a common language the kids' educations would suffer

Hey, hey, I know a solution!

They could all speak a common language...

If I only I could think of an appropriate one... y'know... one that is already spoken in every corner of the world... in business... international airlines... that sorta language... y'know?

If only there was one...

Ah well...

We can only live in hope...

Or la-la land...

 

[wollery]

He's right about one thing though - parent's are fined (and worse) here for refusing to school their children. Doesn't happen too often these days though (refusing to school that is).

Yes, that's the case in the UK too. Children must be given an education, but you can't force them to learn anything, you can only force them to attend.