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Flight 93

He is making up his own rules on where 93 was based on sound, and witness testimony in a news source. Very truthy. He better join CIT while he is still qualified.

At least he agree the chance for a shoot down was close to nil. He has given up on Jim Stop. I guess he has moved his goal posts to the sounds of jets, and other stuff. I guess he ignores the FDR. Why?
 
"Also, wouldn't shockwaves felt 2.5 miles away kind of... oh, I don't know,... *level* buildings/houses closest to the impact?"

What absurdity would make you think that? Oh right, because you make the assumption that by shake, it must be to the degree of an earthquake. What you don't consider is things like the shaking not even coming from the explosion and perhaps being from the plane in flight low to the ground. Heck, a plane at super sonic speeds can blow out every window in a city from miles away, so a plane a few miles away shaking a building is very understandable. As is a mild shaking from an impact a couple miles away. But does that mean they had to hold on for dear life and every book fell off every shelf type of shake?

The issue here at hand is that there are a million variables within reason, yet you make extreme assumptions about the weakest forms of evidence so as to try to dismiss all the more reliable forms of evidence.
 
Jonnyclueless said:
You mean like how you just claimed the plane was 10,000 feet in the air when it certainly was not? Or perhaps how you try to ignore that sound travels much slower than electricity? Hmmm...
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Once again, you live up to your name, oh clueless one. If you could read, you'd know it wasn't me who claimed the plane was 10,000 feet in the air:

Originally Posted by Southwind17
Hey Doug - try this:
Go to Google Earth
Fly to the Flight 93 crash site (40°3’3; 78°54’13)
Zoom out to 10,000ft altitude remaining directly over the crash site (India Lake will become clearly visible to the south-east)
Rotate the view so that India Lake repositions to the north (it's just easier to assimilate this way)
Now, imagine somebody positioned close to the lake is looking up at you, and try convincing me they wouldn't typically describe you as being "overhead"!
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You're obviously lacking skills/education in several areas here, so you shouldn't *even* be trying to debate with anyone. Please go back to playing in your sandbox, we'll holler for you if we need any more comic relief.

Thanks
 
Unchained Spirit said:
**Snort**
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Careful. That white stuff can be dangerous.

"All of a sudden the lights flickered and we joked that maybe they were coming for us. Then we heard engines screaming close overhead. The building shook. We ran out, heard the explosion and saw a fireball mushroom,"

Please continue with your "basic physics". Do fireball mushrooms travel slower, too?
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I wasn't aware that the "fireball mushroom" travelled, other than to rise away from the crash site as the plane exploded and the fuel burned. It would be visible as soon as it came into view above any obstacles, however, and the smoke would have traveled with the wind (blowing from the North-West that day).

How long would it take these shockwaves to travel the distance to the marina?
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Without knowing the exact composition, density and temperature of the medium of transmission, it is impossible to say. Air, however is among the worst conductors of sound waves as compared to any liquid or solid medium.
A few examples of the transmission speeds can be found here.

Also, let's keep in mind that the marina was 2.5 miles away, as the crow flies, and on the opposite side of the lake. The distance of 1.5 miles that is touted is to the nearest shore of the lake, on the same side as the impact crater. Also, wouldn't shockwaves felt 2.5 miles away kind of... oh, I don't know,... *level* buildings/houses closest to the impact?
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Not necessarilly. A shock wave can be of sufficient amplitude to be felt while not being strong enough to cause significant damage to structures. A good example would be the extensive blasting that went on in that area in prior years (there was more than one strip mine in the area). The residents could feel the "thumps" miles away, but no significant damage was done....though I don't doubt that a few plates were rattled off of shelves.
 
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Jonnyclueless said:
What absurdity would make you think that? Oh right, because you make the assumption that by shake, it must be to the degree of an earthquake. What you don't consider is things like the shaking not even coming from the explosion and perhaps being from the plane in flight low to the ground.
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Well DUH FREAKIN' HUH! *WHAT* do you think I've been saying all along? You really *are* clueless, aren't you?? My gawd, man! Do you wear a walkman with a looped tape repeating 'breathe in, breathe out', and have TGIF (Toes Go In First) written on the toes of your shoes?

Simply. Freakin'. Amazing.
 
OldTigerCub said:
Careful. That white stuff can be dangerous.
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Oh, how well I know that. I had a 13 year love affair with it. Been clean for almost 16 years now.

OldTigerCub said:
I wasn't aware that the "fireball mushroom" travelled, other than to rise away from the crash site as the plane exploded and the fuel burned. It would be visible as soon as it came into view above any obstacles, however, and the smoke would have traveled with the wind (blowing from the North-West that day).
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Point taken, I should have asked how long it would take to "rise". We see them immediately in the fireball explosions from the twin towers and the pentagon videos.

OldTigerCub said:
Without knowing the exact composition, density and temperature of the medium of transmission, it is impossible to say. Air, however is among the worst conductors of sound waves as compared to any liquid or solid medium.
A few examples of the transmission speeds can be found here.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link, I'll check into it more... from what I've read, the ground at the impact crater was "soft, damp & mucky". I don't know if that's a fact though.


OldTigerCub said:
Not necessarilly. A shock wave can be of sufficient amplitude to be felt while not being strong enough to cause significant damage to structures. A good example would be the extensive blasting that went on in that area in prior years (there was more than one strip mine in the area). The residents could feel the "thumps" miles away, but no significant damage was done....though I don't doubt that a few plates were rattled off of shelves.
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I see your point, and it's very plausible. I was thinking of that other poster's comparison to a 1000lb bomb.

I'm not closed-minded on the subject, I just feel a need in my mind to work out *any* discrepancy in the stories of 9-11. I think we owe it to all who lost their lives that day, and their families, to *know* the 100% absolute truth of what happened. I just feel we haven't been told the truth, the *whole* truth, and nothing *but* the truth.
 
Unchained Spirit said:
I'm not closed-minded on the subject, I just feel a need in my mind to work out *any* discrepancy in the stories of 9-11. I think we owe it to all who lost their lives that day, and their families, to *know* the 100% absolute truth of what happened. I just feel we haven't been told the truth, the *whole* truth, and nothing *but* the truth.
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Just keep in mind that the truth comes from the overall "big picture" that is put together when examining all of the evidence in the proper context, without prejudice or any preconceived conclusion as a goal. The "twoof" comes from fixating on such things as small details that are irrelevent, quotes taken out of context, and invalid statements about evidence from people that lack the training and experience to offer a valid explanation.
 
Unchained Spirit said:
Well DUH FREAKIN' HUH! *WHAT* do you think I've been saying all along? You really *are* clueless, aren't you?? My gawd, man! Do you wear a walkman with a looped tape repeating 'breathe in, breathe out', and have TGIF (Toes Go In First) written on the toes of your shoes?

Simply. Freakin'. Amazing.
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yes the fact that you are even capable of hitting the keys on a keyboard is simply amazing.

"How often do planes that are 2.5 kilometers (1.5 miles) away, & 10,000 feet in the air, make lights flicker and buildings shake, as reported by the marina owner and employees??"

You really do try to make us believe you are the worlds biggest idiot don't you? It's working. Nice try kid, but this isn't a forum meant as a platform for you to make a fool of yourself, this is for discussion. Go read the posts again and come back to us when you can understand them.
 
gumboot said:
How do you know?
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Based on his mindless and absurd interpretation of some eyewitness testimony. Based on his lack of understanding of how sound and shock waves work. Based on his lack of understanding of how witnesses use terms for descriptions.

This guy said "over", Larry said "It". I would love to see some of these Wooer make these arguments in court and see how much patience a judge would have.
 
Jonnyclueless said:
yes the fact that you are even capable of hitting the keys on a keyboard is simply amazing.

"How often do planes that are 2.5 kilometers (1.5 miles) away, & 10,000 feet in the air, make lights flicker and buildings shake, as reported by the marina owner and employees??"

You really do try to make us believe you are the worlds biggest idiot don't you? It's working. Nice try kid, but this isn't a forum meant as a platform for you to make a fool of yourself, this is for discussion. Go read the posts again and come back to us when you can understand them.
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No, you got owned, boy. Pure and simple. You're the one who needs to go back and read through the thread and see who mentioned the 10,000 feet first. However, I don't think you're bright enough to figure it out.

Why did it take you almost 3 hours to come up with such a lame reply? Did the cats bury you again while you were playing in your sandbox?

The overwhelming ignorance in your posts show *exactly* who is the biggest idiot in the world... and the sad part is the fact that you don't even *have* to try. It comes naturally for you, doesn't it?

Take your lame 2nd grade mentality and run it on someone else who it might impress. It's sure not impressing me, or anyone else. You don't even have the ability to comprehend a simple sentence do you, boy?
 
sorry, but when does forum posting time dicate why it took him 3 hours to reply? In that 3 hours he could have:
1) gone the beach
2) gone hunting
3) went to the movies
4) went shopping
5) went to a picnic
6) read a book
7) did some yard work
8) washed his car
9) etc etc etc

Unknowing to you, we do have lives outside of this forum and do not live by your beck and call.

And no, Johnny did not get "owned".


\
 
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Arus808 said:
sorry, but when does forum posting time dicate why it took him 3 hours to reply?
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Eh...unchained spirit seems to think belittling your opponents, is the key to winning a debate.

But he admitted to being a coke head a few pages back. Which, I would bet is a lie.
 
gc051360 said:
Eh...unchained spirit seems to think belittling your opponents, is the key to winning a debate.

But he admitted to being a coke head a few pages back. Which, I would bet is a lie.
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Please explain exactly *why* someone would lie about being a former coke head. I find your comment laughable. I don't have to lie to you, or anyone else about who or what I am. I'm also a former member of the AB, and I dedicate my time now to keeping kids out of that lifestyle. You really shouldn't pop off about things you know nothing about, pal.
 
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