Merged Fireballs and Backdraft in WTC1 Basement and Lobby

[beachnut]

Fireball, occurring during a kinetic energy event of 2093 pounds of TNT! Do you think an event of kinetic energy equal to a 2000 pound bomb is like an explosion? The fireball of fuel had part of the heat energy of 315 TONS of TNT (the energy of heat in 10,000 gallons of jet fuel that the terrorist flew into the buildings at 590 mph).

More than enough energy to account for all the stupid questions about 9/11 that 9/11 truth has but ignores! Why is 9/11 truth so challenged?

 

[Jonnyclueless]

How is this possible?

How is it possible for exploding gasses to blow open ONLY the outer doors of an elevator without having to blast through an elevator car as well? Hmmm, let's dwell on that for a few minutes more.

Again, premiss is, 'how is it possible for an explosion to penetrate half the material being suggested'.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

I don't know why I am adderssing this, because it shows the utmost lack of any logical thinking what so ever:

a) Sound of explosion
(b) Smoke
(c) Glass blown out
(d) Building shaking
(e) Elevador door blown up
(f) Walls blown rubble
(g) 3+ consecutive walls blown down
(h) 300pound steel fire door crumbled up
(i) Steel beams blown apart
(j) Clothes blown off
(k) People running and screaming
(l) People thrown to the floor
(m) Skin burnt off
Body parts blown off
(o) Pile of dead bodies

These are all traits of planes crashing into a building, fires, and a collapsing building.

You claim that some of them are evidence of explosives. So we have two possibilities. Explosives or something actually possible. One has ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE, and the other has enough evidence for an open/shut case. Yet soul here thinks that the scenario with no evidence is more plausible than the scenario WITH evidence.

This is an issue of medication levels.

Oh and I almost forgot:

"Needless to say that ALL (a) to (o) can be causally explained by a bomb"

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

 

[Jonnyclueless]

Oh and while we're at it, maybe someone cal list the types of explosives that leave absolutely no traces of themselves behind and create fireballs, and leave no tell-tale damage. Were these magical bombs that served no purpose what so ever in the collapse of the towers and only help to incriminate the diabolical villians?

 

[bio]

Let's make some calculations
"Note first that the calculations are not exact (for example the space used by the columns is not a factor in the core space calculation), but are overestimated in favour of the official version. NIST gives the number of 66,100 lb as weight of jet-fuel, and 6.700 lb of it were placed outside the tower, and therefore have to be subtracted. So let's round up and we have a total of 60.000 lb penetrating and remaining inside the tower. This equals about 33,800 litres of jet-fuel (jet-fuel density 0,775-0,84 kg/l).

A floor has about 42,849 square-feet (207x207ft). 33,800 litres equals 1200 cubic-feet. Compared to the size of one floor, evenly distributed this would result in a height of 0,028 ft of jet-fuel covering the floor. This equals 0,34 inch.

Now let's asume that 80 percent of the fuel was in the core, which is a overestimation if we look at the NIST figures. This would be 27040 liter, or 955 cubic-feet.

The core had 11,919 square-feet (87x137ft) . So that would - evenly distributed - result in jet-fuel covering the core in a film of 0,08 ft height, or 0,96 inch. That this an overestimation not only due to the factor of 80 percent fuel inside the core, but also to the fact that the fuel was not evenly distributed, becomes apparant when looking at these NIST-figures. The right side of the red line, where the shafts of 6 and 7 were located, has an underaverage amount of jet-fuel."

From "Loose_Change_Forum" Topic 18745

 

[bio]

How is it possible for exploding gasses to blow open ONLY the outer doors of an elevator without having to blast through an elevator car as well? Hmmm, let's dwell on that for a few minutes more.

Again, premiss is, 'how is it possible for an explosion to penetrate half the material being suggested'.

I asked you, how is this possible:

Just because the elevator doors were blown out does not mean the elevator car was there.

Where were the elevator cars 5,6 parked?

 

[Jonnyclueless]

I asked you, how is this possible:

I asked why you have no problem with a blast getting through both an elevator door AND an elevator car, but question how it's possible for it to penetrate ONLY the elevator doors.

You see rapidly expanding gasses create pressure against objects. If the strength of that object, such as the elevator doors is less than the pressure being exerted from the expanding gasses, then it will give way. So basically the elevator doors were not strong enough to withstand the force of the explosions. It's pretty simple really.

Where were the elevator cars 5,6 parked?

That's the whole point that some of you are missing. It can't be said for sure. Soul is the one who is trying to make an exact claim as to where they are. In fact he is trying to make a lot of exact claims as to how a lot of things were. But the problem is that they are based on broad assumptions, hence it not being proof.

Perhaps one of you can tell us exactly where they were? So far all that has been shown is that the elevator doors were blown off in those areas, not where the elevator cars were.

 

[funk de fino]

Let's make some calculations
"Note first that the calculations are not exact (for example the space used by the columns is not a factor in the core space calculation), but are overestimated in favour of the official version. NIST gives the number of 66,100 lb as weight of jet-fuel, and 6.700 lb of it were placed outside the tower, and therefore have to be subtracted. So let's round up and we have a total of 60.000 lb penetrating and remaining inside the tower. This equals about 33,800 litres of jet-fuel (jet-fuel density 0,775-0,84 kg/l).

A floor has about 42,849 square-feet (207x207ft). 33,800 litres equals 1200 cubic-feet. Compared to the size of one floor, evenly distributed this would result in a height of 0,028 ft of jet-fuel covering the floor. This equals 0,34 inch.

Now let's asume that 80 percent of the fuel was in the core, which is a overestimation if we look at the NIST figures. This would be 27040 liter, or 955 cubic-feet.

The core had 11,919 square-feet (87x137ft) . So that would - evenly distributed - result in jet-fuel covering the core in a film of 0,08 ft height, or 0,96 inch. That this an overestimation not only due to the factor of 80 percent fuel inside the core, but also to the fact that the fuel was not evenly distributed, becomes apparant when looking at these NIST-figures. The right side of the red line, where the shafts of 6 and 7 were located, has an underaverage amount of jet-fuel."

From "Loose_Change_Forum" Topic 18745

That is possibly the stupidest post I have seen this year.

One word - Aerosol

 

[Jonnyclueless]

Let's make some calculations
"Note first that the calculations are not exact (for example the space used by the columns is not a factor in the core space calculation), but are overestimated in favour of the official version. NIST gives the number of 66,100 lb as weight of jet-fuel, and 6.700 lb of it were placed outside the tower, and therefore have to be subtracted. So let's round up and we have a total of 60.000 lb penetrating and remaining inside the tower. This equals about 33,800 litres of jet-fuel (jet-fuel density 0,775-0,84 kg/l).

A floor has about 42,849 square-feet (207x207ft). 33,800 litres equals 1200 cubic-feet. Compared to the size of one floor, evenly distributed this would result in a height of 0,028 ft of jet-fuel covering the floor. This equals 0,34 inch.

Now let's asume that 80 percent of the fuel was in the core, which is a overestimation if we look at the NIST figures. This would be 27040 liter, or 955 cubic-feet.

The core had 11,919 square-feet (87x137ft) . So that would - evenly distributed - result in jet-fuel covering the core in a film of 0,08 ft height, or 0,96 inch. That this an overestimation not only due to the factor of 80 percent fuel inside the core, but also to the fact that the fuel was not evenly distributed, becomes apparant when looking at these NIST-figures. The right side of the red line, where the shafts of 6 and 7 were located, has an underaverage amount of jet-fuel."

From "Loose_Change_Forum" Topic 18745

I'm sure the poster wrote that with a straight face. Is this stundie material anyone?

 

[beachnut]

From "Loose_Change_Forum" Topic 18745

That is funny.

 

[LashL]

lashl the condition of the 6 7 elevators and their location in the lobby is confirmed by the testimony of Dave Bobbitt
http://911stories.googlepages.com/insidethenorthtower:witnessaccounts,lobb

Mr. Bobbitt's account does not support your prior assertions at all. You might want to read your allegations again and then come on back once you understand why you are wrong in claiming that Mr. Bobbitt's account confirms them, since it does no such thing.

I find it difficult to believe that anyone can be as reading comprehension challenged as your posts in this thread demonstrate you to be. Frankly, it appears to me as though you are just playing silly buggers for kicks.

so stop talking rubbish

Unlike yourself, I am not talking rubbish at all, despite your silly, unfounded, unsubstantiated, and ridiculous allegation. It is not my fault that you are apparently unable to read for comprehension, unable to understand the meanings of words, and so uneducated or so blinded to reality that you do not even recognize when you contradict yourself.

I do, however, wish that you would stop making unfounded, unsupported, and unsubstantiated claims for which you provide not a scintilla of evidence and I do wish, for your sake, that one day, you will realize that a little bit of rational and critical thinking goes a long way. I suggest that you read your own posts and sources again, and it should be apparent to you - as it is to any rational person reading - where and how you've gone wrong.

P.S. If I thought that you were even remotely genuinely interested in truth, reality, or rational and critical thinking, I would gently point out your errors and gently explain why and how you went wrong, but I am of the opinion that you are merely trolling for kicks, and I prefer not to play silly games with trolls, particularly when they are so obvious.

 

[LashL]

How is this possible?

You seem not to understand how elevators work, the interconnection between elevator hoistways, elevator shafts, elevator cars, or the difference between interior doors and (exterior) landing doors.

Every elevator car has its own interior doors, and every floor that is served by any elevator has (exterior) landing doors.

 

[theauthor]

You seem not to understand how elevators work, the interconnection between elevator hoistways, elevator shafts, elevator cars, or the difference between interior doors and (exterior) landing doors.

Every elevator car has its own interior doors, and every floor that is served by any elevator has (exterior) landing doors.

Source?

 

[LashL]

Source?

Are you serious? Have you never been in an elevator or in a building with an elevator in your life?

Do you seriously not realize that the interior elevator doors - those that you stare at while you're inside an elevator car as it moves up or down in the hoistway - are not the same doors as the (exterior) landing doors that are present on every floor that any given elevator car serves?

Do you really need me to explain this to you?

Seriously?

Seriously?

 

[beachnut]

Are you serious? Have you never been in an elevator or in a building with an elevator in your life?
Seriously?

Maybe his elevator has walls passing by. That is a strange post.

 

[LashL]

Maybe his elevator has walls passing by. That is a strange post.

His post indicates that his mental elevator doesn't go all the way to the top. How incredibly stupid one has to be to post such a thing is quite beyond me.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

Source?

Perhaps there should be another thread on the conspiracies behind elevators and the false flag claims about how they work using two sets of doors (one in the car, one on each floor). OH yes the great elevator inside job that goes all the way back to JFK and some say JFK was killed because he was about to go public about how elevators really work.

 

[bio]

Perhaps one of you can tell us exactly where they were? So far all that has been shown is that the elevator doors were blown off in those areas, not where the elevator cars were.

how do you interpret the second part?

"The doors were blown off by the fireball that came down the elevator shaft and the elevators cars were burned. (Basement level of WTC 1)." (NIST NCSTAR 1-8, p.43)

The cars were still there and parked but burned out.

How realistic is your interpretation:

I asked why you have no problem with a blast getting through both an elevator door AND an elevator car, but question how it's possible for it to penetrate ONLY the elevator doors.

Why didn´t destroy your blast the complete car, if it, the blast was so strong, getting through the car?

 

[Jonnyclueless]

how do you interpret the second part?

"The doors were blown off by the fireball that came down the elevator shaft and the elevators cars were burned. (Basement level of WTC 1)." (NIST NCSTAR 1-8, p.43)

The cars were still there and parked but burned out.

Oh isn't tht funny. A second ago they were in the lobby. Now they are in the basement. Isn't that interesting how that works? One might be lead to believe that the WTC tower had more than 2 elevators huh? So if you just used a quote of someone saying that the elevator doors in the lobby were blasted out, and now you say that the elevator cars are parked in the basement, wouldn't that kind of suggest that the elevators parked in the basement are ******NOT****** parked in the lobby?

Are these magical elevators parked both in the lobby AND the basement at the same time? Perhaps some kind of quantum physics issue? Please go ahead and explain this one.

Why didn´t destroy your blast the complete car, if it, the blast was so strong, getting through the car?

Can someone please interpret this? I am not sure what language this is in.

 

[bio]

I asked why you have no problem with a blast getting through both an elevator door AND an elevator car, but question how it's possible for it to penetrate ONLY the elevator doors.

I read from your post:

1. The car was parked
2. A blast getting through the elevator door and the car.

But the car was not destroyed. It was still there only burned. After your scenario (point 1,2) the blast had to destroy the car completely.

my reference:
"The doors were blown off by the fireball that came down the elevator shaft and the elevators cars were burned. (Basement level of WTC 1)." (NIST NCSTAR 1-8, p.43)