Homeopaths and malaria (again)

Mojo

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Mojo
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The BBC has investigated the advice homeopaths give about malaria again.

This time it's Neal's Yard Remedies, a national chain in the UK, that is recommending using 30C homeopathic remedies to prevent malaria. The Society of Homeopaths are potentially involved again: Susan Curtis, Neal's Yard's "Medicines Director" who was interviewed in the story and who has written a book recommending homeopathy for prevention of malaria, is on their register of homeopaths.

See the Quackometer blog for details: Neal's Yard Remedies Offers Lethal Homeopathic Malaria Advice.

The programme can (for the next few days at least) be viewed here. the relevant section is about 12 minutes in.

The BBC have also issued a press release: Homeopathic remedy claims are disputed.
 
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Grrr this makes me so angry...

Why oh why can we not introduce legislation that criminalises this kind of behaviour? If these products worked in any way they should be treated as medicine and be licensed for sale only after successful trials. Pathetic wimpering by woo mongers about how Homeopathic medicines cannot be tested in the same way as normal medicines should be treated with the contempt that it deserves.

Ggrrrr maybe anyone who sells this sh*te as a real medicine should be forced to spend a month in malawi or uganda with only their sugar pills for protection.
 
Does anyone know how i can watch this program outside of the UK?

I've tried using UK proxies but the site still prevents me from watching.
 
Very impressive film clip. The interviewer appears quite knowledgeable, enough for Susan Curtis to see that she wasn't going to get any nonsense accepted and chose the only route available, the exit :D.

It will be interesting to see the response from the MHRA and Trading Standards.
 
Perhaps this is where sceptics should focus their efforts? Rather than trying to get rid of all of homoeopathy at once, concentrate on the really dangerous nonsense.

I think a public victory over this would do irreparable damage to the reputation of homoeopathy and homoeopaths.
 
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Ivor the Engineer said:
Perhaps this is where sceptics should focus their efforts? Rather than trying to get rid of all of homoeopathy at once, concentrate on the really dangerous nonsense.

I think a public victory over this would do irreparable damage to the reputation of homoeopathy and homoeopaths.
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It is important to get rid of the more dangerous woo but won't have much impact on homeopathy in general. They can just point to their 'code' of practice.
Getting media outlets like the BBC on board is working quite well as evidenced from the squeals from the UK homeopaths.
 
Professor Yaffle said:
Can't help with watching it outside the UK, but here is a transcript:

http://thinking-is-dangerous.blogspot.com/2008/04/transript-of-susan-curtis-medicines.html
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Thanks for that. I managed to watch it anyway.

As others have said, I just don't understand why people are allow to sell crap as effective remedies for serious diseases.

Could I bottle water and sell it, in the UK, as protection for malaria? I'm being serious - does anybody, knowledgeable of the law, know? Rolfe?
 
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monoman said:
Could I bottle water and sell it, in the UK, as protection for malaria? I'm being serious - does anybody, knowledgeable of the law, know?
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If you're talking about putting it in a shop and selling it, probably not (even if you were claiming it was homoeopathic). The rules about homoeopathic medicines can be found on the MHRA website. There are two current schemes for introducing new homoeopathic "medicines" to the market.

Under the "simplified scheme" you must "make no therapeutic claims". The "medicine" must also be sufficiently dilute to guarantee that it can have no effects whatsoever is safe. This scheme was introduced in 1994 because, according to a previous version of the MHRA page, between 1971 and 1994 "attempts to acquire marketing authorisations for new homoeopathic medicines were unsuccessful owing to difficulties in proving efficacy". It was, apparently, considered that the fact that they don't work was not a sufficient reason for not allowing "medicines" to be marketed.

Under the new "National Rules Scheme" you can sell remedies with "indications for the relief or treatment of minor symptoms and conditions (those that can ordinarily be relieved or treated without the supervision or intervention of a doctor)." That would exclude malaria. You could say it cures is used to treat colds though, and you wouldn't need to demonstrate that it works.

If you had managed to get your malaria protection on the market before the Medicines Act came into force in 1971, you could have got a "Product Licence of Right" for it and carried on selling it, I think.


On the other hand, anyone can set themselves up to practise as a homoeopath in the UK. There seems to be nothing preventing you from charging someone for a homoeopathic consultation and treatment.
 
Looks like the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) and Trading Standards have stepped in -

BBC

Quackometer

One thing that puzzles me about this homoeopathic malaria business - what is Malaria Officinalis 30c actually made from? (I know 30c means it's way past the point of having any mother tincture left) - if it's the Plasmodium parasite then how does that square with all the 'vital force' guff? I thought that homoeopaths didn't go with the Germ Theory of disease. Shouldn't they be using a diluted-to-death remedy made from cinchona bark? After all, if it was good enough Hahnemann ...
 
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Kuko 4000 said:
Is there any way or place to see this vid if you're not in UK?
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Sorry, not that I know of - it's not even available in the UK now as it's past the seven days they keep stuff on iPlayer.
Unless someone ripped it and it turns up on YouTube - I guess the Beeb wouldn't put up with that for long, though.
 
Dragon said:
Looks like the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) and Trading Standards have stepped in -

BBC

Quackometer
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I emailed the MHRA the other day to ask whether Neal's Yard was to be fined for this obviously criminal activity. So far they have only received a `naughty boy' statement. I got the read receipt for the email but no reply. It presumably went into the `too tricky' tray. I'll have another go - suggest others do too. Write to the press office.

One thing that puzzles me about this homoeopathic malaria business - what is Malaria Officinalis 30c actually made from? (I know 30c means it's way past the point of having any mother tincture left) - if it's the Plasmodium parasite then how does that square with all the 'vital force' guff? I thought that homoeopaths didn't go with the Germ Theory of disease. Shouldn't they be using a diluted-to-death remedy made from cinchona bark? After all, if it was good enough Hahnemann ...
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Ah, here is where the devious mind of the homeopath exposes itself in all its glory. Hahnemann and doctors in general of his era thought that infectious disease was caused by bad air or `miasmas'. So Malaria officinalis was prepared from rotting vegetation from marshy areas, ie where people got malaria. They knew nothing of course about mosquitoes and Plasmodium. But in the late 19th century the parasite was discovered. Oh bu**er thought the homeopaths, what do we do about this? So a new remedy was prepared from the parasite cells, diluted into oblivion of course. I don't know if Neal's Yard ever offered the parasite-based remedy (sorry I have forgotten the name).

I should mention that, in the run up to this BBC item I complained to the ASA about point of sale advertising by Neal's Yard , which was upheld. But there is no adjudication on the ASA website for arcane reasons I can't begin to explain. So I strongly suggest that more of us go into our local Neal's Yard shops and continue the process until they become as ethical as they claim to be.
 
I emailed the MHRA today asking similar questions, and also asked for their position regarding the other outlets that sell this "remedy" (Helios, Ainsworths etc). I suspect they will reply that they cannot stop its sale as it may be given to patients as an adjunct to standard malaria prophylaxis advice, but I can't see any reason why there should be a product of this nature in the first place.

ETA (for Asolepius) The MHRA say they will respond
Simple e-mails will either be answered by the CEP staff within 48 hours, or transferred to the appropriate person or area within the Agency to provide a response within the targets of that area.
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I suppose the email may have been sent on to someone else whose department has a "target" response time of 6 months or something.......
 
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I just got this from David Carter, who signed the MHRA news release:
No further action is planned against Neal's Yard in respect of the homoeopathic malaria product as the product was removed immediately from the market place. The MHRA has no powers to levy fines. The decision on whether or not to pursue a case in the criminal courts would depend on a number of factors including the nature and severity of the offence and the amount of harm the product had caused.
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So I asked him how this stacks up against what he said in the news release:
This product was clearly intended to be viewed as a treatment or preventive for malaria, which is a serious and potentially life-threatening disease. We regard the promotion of an unauthorised, self-medicating product for such a serious condition to be potentially harmful to public health and misleading.
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I then got an out of office autoreply - he'll be back on Tuesday, so I'll chase then.
 
Asolepius said:
Ah, here is where the devious mind of the homeopath exposes itself in all its glory. Hahnemann and doctors in general of his era thought that infectious disease was caused by bad air or `miasmas'. So Malaria officinalis was prepared from rotting vegetation from marshy areas, ie where people got malaria. They knew nothing of course about mosquitoes and Plasmodium. But in the late 19th century the parasite was discovered. Oh bu**er thought the homeopaths, what do we do about this? So a new remedy was prepared from the parasite cells, diluted into oblivion of course. I don't know if Neal's Yard ever offered the parasite-based remedy (sorry I have forgotten the name).
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According to the ARH, the one prepared from the parasite is called "Malaria co nosode" and is available from Helios and Ainsworths. Neal's Yard's one was from Ainsworths, apparently, but they were just calling it "Malaria 30C" on their website so it's not clear from that which one it was.

ETA: According to the Quackometer, who bought some, it was labeled "MALARIA CO 30C".
 
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one thread silier than the other one...know nothing at all!

How silly is that here!

Hahnemann has not found out about curing malaria with "china"- he has seen it and has done what you can not do:
Investigation!

blamed is what you are here all together!

China and other remedies out of homeopathy are used, because they work!
Nobody can stop the selling because it does not matter if some idiots do not like it!
If I do not like Solarenergy, it is the same and it will not be stopped...

haha
Homeopathy rescures lives and people will not forget it then- got it?
So they will always buy it again!
You are against freedom and you act like the Nazis!

Same as it happened to them, it will happen to you too-...
You are Danger for the human race!

Thats why you can buy it - People get cured with using it in emergency cases!

You can buy it not only in our drugstores for high prizes, you can buy it in the countries itself where the malaria-risk is given too- just cheaper!

There is just nothing else better than this- and when you read the package of "Malarone" which you can find suggested mostly in the Internet and by the Tropical institutes in the coutries all over the world, you can see also: "Homeopathic remedy" !!!

shame on you!!!

What do you want to do if you have to expect to have malaria but hesitate to believe in Homeopathy?
Run then in a circle - then turn around and around and jump up and up and down to hope that this Magic will help you!
Good trick or what?
 
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