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Randi/Brown astrological profile

dglinder

New Blood
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Does anyone have a copy of the generic personality profile that Randi uses to debunk astrology by giving everyone in a group of people the same reading? Derren Brown also did the same thing on his TV show.

There are several groups I think I could educate with this method. It seems to me like an extremely effective way to get people to see the true nature of astrology. You know how it is - you can explain something to people until you're blue in the face, but when it actually happens to them, it sinks in.

A copy of either would be great, copies of both would be amazing. In a post in 1996 someone on this board mentioned that Randi gave them a copy, so hopefully that won't be a problem. I doubt Derren Brown gives his out, but you never know.

Just drop me a private message and I'll send you my email address. Thanks!
 
You would be better off slamming your head against the wall than trying to change a believer. Though, some people have seen the light. I wish you luck on your task :)
 
Here is one from Flim-Flam (p. 61), which Mr. Randi attributed to Sydney Omarr:

"People close to you have been taking advantage of you. Your basic honesty has been getting in your way. Many opportunities that you have had offered to you in the past have had to be surrendered because you refuse to take advantage of others. You like to read books and articles that improve your mind. In fact, if you're not already in some sort of personal service business, you should be. You have an infinite capacity for understanding people's problems and you can sympathize with them. But you are firm when confronted with obstinancy or outright stupidity. Law enforcement would be another field you understand. Your sense of justice is quite strong."
 
I thought from the title that this would be comparing astrological forecasts for James Randi and Sylvia Browne!
 
Here's a good article on cold reading from Michael Shermer containing an example of this sort of "Barnum" or "Forer" reading.

There's also an example on the Skeptic's Dictionary. It's apparently the one Forer used with his students in an experiment conducted in 1948:

You have a need for other people to like and admire you, and yet you tend to be critical of yourself. While you have some personality weaknesses you are generally able to compensate for them. You have considerable unused capacity that you have not turned to your advantage. Disciplined and self-controlled on the outside, you tend to be worrisome and insecure on the inside. At times you have serious doubts as to whether you have made the right decision or done the right thing. You prefer a certain amount of change and variety and become dissatisfied when hemmed in by restrictions and limitations. You also pride yourself as an independent thinker; and do not accept others' statements without satisfactory proof. But you have found it unwise to be too frank in revealing yourself to others. At times you are extroverted, affable, and sociable, while at other times you are introverted, wary, and reserved. Some of your aspirations tend to be rather unrealistic.
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Showmeproof said:
You would be better off slamming your head against the wall than trying to change a believer. Though, some people have seen the light. I wish you luck on your task :)
Click to expand...

Well, with a full-on strong "believer", you're probably right - although I think this method would at least give even them some doubts. But I guess I'm going more for the "soft" believer, the person who kinda-sorta thinks there might be something to it, or who believes that keeping an open mind is the same thing as giving credence to idiocy. I especially think it would be a great way to "inoculate" folks against flimflam of other kinds and make them think twice about stuff.

At the end of the Derren Brown segment where he does this (I can't provide a link because I'm new, but search for "Derren Brown astrology" on Youtube), there is a really heartening segment that shows the participants saying how much it has changed their minds about astrology, and a few even saying things like "Now I know I'll never waste any money on this crap".

Thanks to those people who have provided links and bits of classic profiles. I had been thinking I could probably cobble one together myself if I had to - after all, it's not hard to think of wishy-washy, vaguely positive statements about yourself that everyone believes. But I'd rather have a complete copy of one made by a professional if possible, I'm sure they have done a much better job than I could. My favorite detail is that one of the points Derren Brown seems to have included is some statement about how "you've always wanted to write a novel..." I guess that feeling is a lot more common than I thought.

I guess if I can't get Randi's or Brown's that's what I'll have to do.
 
There are plenty of astrological sites that will do a free profile for you. Just search for "free astrological readings".
 
Derren Brown did a Forer type script based effect on one of his shows which is printed in full in his "Tricks of the Mind" book.
 
Getting a "genuine" reading from an online astrologer would be much better than getting something written by a skeptic. You then can't be accused of using a biased source.
For extra fun, put in the birthdate of somebody notorious, like Peter Sutcliffe or Hitler.
 
sophia8 said:
Getting a "genuine" reading from an online astrologer would be much better than getting something written by a skeptic. You then can't be accused of using a biased source.
For extra fun, put in the birthdate of somebody notorious, like Peter Sutcliffe or Hitler.
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I dunno. I think I'd rather have one written by an expert in the psychology of such things and designed to be as generic as possible than one whipped up by some loser living in their parent's basement. Derren Brown's seemed to really be great - all the people in the groups rated it as around 90% accurate. I don't think it matters if it's written by a skeptic.
 
dglinder said:
I dunno. I think I'd rather have one written by an expert in the psychology of such things and designed to be as generic as possible than one whipped up by some loser living in their parent's basement. Derren Brown's seemed to really be great - all the people in the groups rated it as around 90% accurate. I don't think it matters if it's written by a skeptic.
Click to expand...

Derren Brown's success isn't just due to the reading: the presentation plays an important part. He has natural charm and authority, he adds some mystery to the event (drawing round hands and giving a personal object) and he does a very good job of convincing the participants that he will do his best to write an individual description for each of them.

Remember that any horoscope based solely on birth data will use the same techniques to produce a reading that will please a maximum number of people. Otherwise they wouldn't work! For an astrologer working face-to-face, things are different: here the astrologer will react to the person and use all the resources of cold reading. But a reading done over the internet, where you have sent nothing but your date, time and place of birth, will have to rely on statements which could apply to almost anybody.

So why not give it a try: choose a successful internet astrology site and ask for a reading for any old birth date. As sophia8 suggested, you could put in the details of someone famous. Maybe not Hitler: I'd guess that so many people try that one that some horoscope sites may have a special "Hitler" horoscope for that date! Just use some mass-murderer/child-abuser/whatever. Strip out all references to particular signs or planets, and you'll have a typical "Barnum Reading". It will be designed to be a generic as possible. And it'll be all the more impressive when you tell people that their "individual" horoscope is actually Dr. Crippen's.

Here's a true story: in 1968, Michael Gauquelin offered free horoscopes to readers of “Ici Paris”. He sent out more than 500 horoscopes and asked for comments. 94% of the people who responded said that his reading was very accurate, fitting character and life events. In fact, all the horoscopes were identical: the reading was that of mass murderer Marcel Petiot (executed for having killed 27 people), and it had been drawn up by the leading astrologer André Barbault, using new computer software he had helped to develop.
 
Randi in action:



Since I do not have speakers on my computer at work, I do not know if the profile actually is read aloud.

There is another possibility to get the profile though.
I googled a bit (yes, I´m too lazy to work at the moment) and found the following post from this forum:

Richard said:
The Mystery Investigators do this every time we visit a school. Randi himself sent me the chart. It works very, very well with 13 - 17 year old kids really getting the point.
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So, contact Randi or Richard, and you should get it from one of them.
 
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dglinder said:
I dunno. I think I'd rather have one written by an expert in the psychology of such things and designed to be as generic as possible than one whipped up by some loser living in their parent's basement. Derren Brown's seemed to really be great - all the people in the groups rated it as around 90% accurate. I don't think it matters if it's written by a skeptic.
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Yes it does. When you tell people that "their" spot-on astrological analysis is actually for somebody else, showing that it's a 'proper' astrological report will totally convince them. Whereas, when they learn that it's been made-up for the occasion by somebody out to debunk astrology, they're quite entitled to be deeply unimpressed by the deception.
I would have thought that was pretty obvious.

Actually, I'd be interested to know just why you're so resistant to the idea that a real astrological report won't do for this. It might be inferred that you doubt that astrological readings are entirely generic.
 
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