The rise of the BNP

[Undesired Walrus]

As mentioned in the thread covering the UK elections, the BNP have now won their most high profile position yet. A seat on the London Assembly.

Is there a real threat posed by the BNP? Do their leaders mean it when they say "This is not about (skin) colour"? Or is it all code for something else? Do they honestly believe they are not racists, just 'telling the truth'?

For the benefit of our foriegn members, the BNP is a 'respectable' version of the National Front with a known Holocaust denier as their leader.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Wait, aren't they white-only party that plans on reducing the minority population to what it was in [somedate] by sending immigrants back to their home countries?

How is that not about race?

My rule of thumb is when someone starts out saying, "I'm not a racist, but..." they really are racists.

 

[gtc]

Are they actually white only, though?

 

[Undesired Walrus]

I seem to remember they would only accept white membership.

 

[gtc]

Can they do that?

 

[Undesired Walrus]

Seems so. Fourth page down.

http://web.archive.org/web/20070629010001/http://www.bnp.org.uk/resources/constitution_8ed.pdf



What's strange is that Griffin said this after he was accused of denying the Holocaust.

"several of the leftists try to sidetrack the debate down the Holocaust road although that does at least allow me to set the record straight and deal with the combination of Wikipedia lies and out-of-context propaganda and to put on record the fact that – while I used to be very angry at (and rude about) the way the left-liberals use the Holocaust as a moral club to silence debate on the key issues of our time – I have never denied the fact that the Nazis murdered huge numbers of Jews in one of the great crimes of a century of terrible inhumanity."

I have little clue what he is talking about, but I doubt he could claim this

as a 'wikipedia lie'.

 

[Big Les]

They are white-only, but if the tabloids (and lefty blogs) are to be believed, they have a thing for black DJs;

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article99134.ece

Wonderful story. Hope it's true. I don't think there's anything to fear from them just yet - minor victories like this serve as a wakeup call that in the right situation, there might just be enough ignorant fools in this country to get them in in some capacity. Or you can see it as practically a protest vote (by ignorant fools).

 

[Finnegan]

What's strange is that Griffin said this after he was accused of denying the Holocaust.

He also referred to the Holocaust as 'the holohoax' in Rune. At his trial, in 1998, he stated that: "I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that 6 million Jews were gassed and cremated and turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also once held that the world is flat... I have reached the conclusion that the 'extermination' tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria."

Now, however, they've adopted such a virulently anti-Islamic slant that they're hoping to win Jewish votes. Even if they win over disaffected citizens, they shouldn't be given a platform.

They are white-only, but if the tabloids (and lefty blogs) are to be believed, they have a thing for black DJs;

"He sounded white on the phone."

 

[Uzzy]

Firstly, I fundamentally disagree with not giving people a platform. The BNP won a seat on the assembly in democratic elections. That has to be recognised. Doesn't mean we have to like it though. I might despise utterly what the BNP have to say, but I'll stand up for their right to say it.

Secondly, I think there was a mix of racists, people seriously worried about immigration and the protest vote who came out and voted for the BNP. Racists you can't do anything about, in electoral terms. They'd always vote for the BNP.

Those worried about immigration and other issues though? Well, we can actually work to look at some of those people's concerns. If, lets say, they think that 'Immigrants get houses before them', then we need to build more houses and explain the new system of awarding council houses. Essentially the concerns of people need to be addressed by mainstream parties, or else the BNP and other fascist groups will find their vote numbers increasing.

Are they a true threat? Not a chance. More like a disgusting stain on society that needs to be cleaned up.

 

[Finnegan]

Firstly, I fundamentally disagree with not giving people a platform. The BNP won a seat on the assembly in democratic elections. That has to be recognised. Doesn't mean we have to like it though. I might despise utterly what the BNP have to say, but I'll stand up for their right to say it.

They have every right to speak in the Assembly, or anywhere in public, indeed, but I would disagree with giving Griffin, Collett et al a platform on private or televised debates. Look, for example, at Herr Griffin's appearence on Newsnight, where he tortuously links Pakistani immigration to drug abuse. How can policies be debated with such a cretin?

The rise of the BNP should force other parties into addressing the very legitimate concerns of working class citizens, without giving undue lenience to the bigots and charlatans of the BNP.

 

[jsiv]

The rise of the BNP should force other parties into addressing the very legitimate concerns of working class citizens, without giving undue lenience to the bigots and charlatans of the BNP.

I'm glad someone said this. I wish all the anti-BNP (and the other equivalents across Europe) people would realize this. It is not enough to just voice your disapproval and call the BNP voters idiots. It doesn't solve anything and just drives them further away. The real parties really do need to take heed and deal with the underlying issues that are driving people into the hands of the BNP and similar groups.

Now, granted, some of them really are just plain nuts, but still.

 

[Uzzy]

The BBC are actually legally obliged to give political parties a platform during elections. Not every party, of course, it gets decided on the number of candidates put forward.

Separate to the legal issue, I think that actually letting these fascists air their views in the political arena is the quickest way to destroy them. Don't let them say 'Mainstream Parties are afraid to talk about these issues!', rather, let them talk, then blow them out of the water with reasoned and logical debate. Show these thugs for what they are.

 

[FireGarden]

Now, however, they've adopted such a virulently anti-Islamic slant that they're hoping to win Jewish votes.

BNP seeks to bury antisemitism and gain Jewish votes in Islamophobic campaign:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/apr/10/thefarright.race

But they're not being believed much:

The move has sparked a furious reaction among Jewish organisations who say the BNP is still antisemitic and racist.

The Board of Deputies, the London Jewish Forum and the Community Security Trust have launched a campaign with other ethnic minority and cultural groups and the Hope Not Hate campaign to combat the BNP threat.

[...] The BNP's drive to abandon its anti-semitism and cash in on what it perceives to be the growth in Islamophobia was outlined in an essay by party leader Nick Griffin, who once said of the Holocaust: "I have reached the conclusion that the 'extermination' tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter-day witch-hysteria." In his essay last year he wrote: "It stands to reason that adopting an 'Islamophobic' position that appeals to large numbers of ordinary people - including un-nudged journalists - is going to produce on average much better media coverage than siding with Iran and banging on about 'Jewish power', which is guaranteed to raise hackles of virtually every single journalist in the western world."

Griffin has been on record too many times -- rewriting history is impossible.

 

[Sefarst]

Their Wikipedia says they want to re-criminalize homosexuality as well. The sound like the English equivalent of the NDP in Germany who won some local elections recently as well, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

BNP seeks to bury antisemitism and gain Jewish votes in Islamophobic campaign:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/apr/10/thefarright.race

Islamophobic campaign? This isn't about an opposition to religous ideology, this is about protecting their utter hatred of 'Pakis' behind the doors of 'Hey, we are only criticising a violent belief system'. You only have to listen to various members talk about blowing up mosques to realise this is similar to the KKK's hatred of Catholicism.

I'm still waiting to find out what an 'Islamophobic' statement is defined as, and if the phrase really has any meaning.

 

[albion]

I'm glad someone said this. I wish all the anti-BNP (and the other equivalents across Europe) people would realize this. It is not enough to just voice your disapproval and call the BNP voters idiots. It doesn't solve anything and just drives them further away. The real parties really do need to take heed and deal with the underlying issues that are driving people into the hands of the BNP and similar groups.

Now, granted, some of them really are just plain nuts, but still.

I thought it might be interesting to see where they have actually done the best in elections.

I found this list (which admittedly only goes up to 2007)

http://www.uaf.org.uk/news.asp?choice=70503

Looking at it, Burnley stands out for me as a place with severe tensions in the last few years and as such quite unsurprising. My knowledge of the north is minimal so anyone with first-hand knowledge of the other northern places mentioned (Stoke, Kirklees etc) could enlighten us on these places.

Now, going on to the south east. Dagenham is the place they have done best. This is an area of high unemployment and some of the highest poverty levels in London.

The odd one for me is Epping Forest. Now, maybe I'm missing something but that corner of Essex is pretty much all white with pretty high levels of wealth. The same for Hainault.

These places are not in the frontline of mass-immigration or desperate poverty which suggests to me there must be something else going on in these areas.

 

[albion]

Their Wikipedia says they want to re-criminalize homosexuality as well. The sound like the English equivalent of the NDP in Germany who won some local elections recently as well, if I'm not mistaken.

They are both Neo-Fascists, yes. The BNP tries to pretend otherwise in polite company but they are.

 

[Sunstealer]

I seem to remember the BNP having an "ethnic minority" candidate in the midlands. Googling finds the name Sharif Abdel Bawad whom is supposedly a Armenian Greek but many party members thought he was a Pakistani Muslim. I've now found a picture of him to see if he is non-white, but it does sound like it

Of course this doesn't excuse the BNP and the cynic in me says that they would use any measure to further their agenda.

I'm all for giving the BNP a platform for speaking simply because given enough rope they'll hang themselves. The question people should ask is why are more and more people voting for them? People only vote for extremist parties in numbers when they feel let down by the mainstream parties or as a protest vote. So what is going wrong?

 

[dudalb]

Waiting for MaGZ to show up,rejoicing...3....2.....1.....
Actually their getting a London Council Seat might be good in the long run. It will show a lot of people who have only vaguely heard of the BNP how truly insane and disgusting they are.

 

[Ixion]

My rule of thumb is when someone starts out saying, "I'm not a racist, but..." they really are racists.

I sometimes play a game where I start a sentence such as that, and end it with something off-topic. I think it is funny, but the receiving person never seems to understand it is an inside joke, and are trying to make something out of nothing while I am giggling.

Some examples might be "I'm not racist, but Colorado is a strange-shaped state. Wouldn't you agree?"

"I'm not gay, but I like beer."

"I'm not homophobic, but triskadekaphobia is a real problem."

The trick is to get it completely out-of-context. Don't mention something like this when the topic of conversation is politically or religiously motivated, because then they think you are trying to add fuel to the fire. You use these when you find the topic of conversation boring, and just want to laugh, like if the topic was "What to do when South leads a bridge hand?"

Maybe my sense of humor is a little warped.