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Afrocentrism?

Regarding the book in question, it has been many years since I read it, but from what I recall, it was mostly an attempt to redefine the black stereotype. Basically, there are three main ways to fight any negative stereotype: 1 - Act as a living counter-example and try to develop as many of these counter-examples as possible (W.E.B. DuBois, for example), 2 - Redefine and embrace a different stereotype (Karenga), or 3 - Embrace the stereotype, often in a defiant or mocking way (as can be seen in the gangsta culture). Of course, these aren't the only ways to do this, but they are the most common.

This can be done for any group, whether it is women, homosexuals, or yes, even white men. Which response to negative stereotyping is the "best"? Your guess is as good as mine.

I wouldn't go so far as to even say "best", I would say which is more "correct"?

Your post is very insightful, however, and this observation is a good way to explain some of my beef with this...

Karenga's book, and this class, seemed based on the premise that there is something inherent with "Black people" that is not just skin color. That a certain "race" has a certain "worldview" about it, a certain culture to associate to, maybe even a certain way of thinking. That is essentially the premise behind Black Nationalism, as I understand it, and it's pretty bogus.

As I was taught in this class, Black Studies is not just the "study of blacks", but studying blacks through this "African Worldview".

Here is a quote from Azibo's Articulating the Distinction Between Black Studies and the Study of Blacks: The Fundamental Role of Culture and the African-Centered Worldview--hopefully it will also help you understand why I've been unable to clarify things--what the hell is "Memphite Theology"? and so on:
(I removed all the citations for easier reading)
The essence of pedagogy and curriculum of Black Studies must certainly consist of this Afrocentric body of human sciences (sciences broadly defined), not unlike that in the ancient days of the Mystery System. Indeed, on this point, the reader is queried what conceptual system:

a) substantiates the knowledge that made Kemet "The Light of the World?"
b) did Imhotep, Ptahotep, and the authors of the Memphite Theology employ in their work?
c) substantiates the political, military, and cultural aspects of Pharaoh-Queen Hatsepshut? and
d)substantiates authentic Black theology and its scripture?

The African worldview is the answer. When Africans do not embrace it, our wretchedness ensues; when Africans cleave to it, sustentation and great achievement are attained. "That is why, if we are to return to the source culturally, it [the worldview window on Kemetic/classical African civilization knowledge] must be at the foundation of our humanities [and sciences, i.e., our Black Studies]. "We must teach it systematically," opined C. A. Diop.

Later:

What makes Black Studies a singular discipline at the most fundamental level is its African worldview conceptual basis, i.e., its Afrocentricity. What makes White Studies a singular discipline is its European worldview conceptual basis, the artificial boundaries that separate its so-called disciplines (psychology, religion, sociology, etc.) notwithstanding. That Black Studies must avoid the artificial boundary distinction that characterizes White Studies has been pointed out by many writers. Semaj has understood this in articulating the "cultural science" concept: the African worldview base makes our work culturally centered. That is, applying the African patterns for interpreting reality (cultural deep structure, see Table 1) as the conceptual starting point for our work perforce locates what we do in the African worldview and thereby provides the unifying disciplinary basis. This is an actual point of fact, not just a logical derivation. For example, consider the position that there is no distinction between African (Black) psychology and Black religion, because each owes its existence and unfolding to the dictates of the African worldview.

So, according to this paper, and this class, it seems to me that if this is really Black Studies, it seems to be based on the holism hogwash we see elsewhere; furthermore, let me quote exactly what this so-called "African worldview" entails, from yet another handout (the entire time I have been unable of pointing to single examples because it seems this underlying system of premises and the implications is not stated in just one place):
(formated to make it easy to understand)
(NOTE THE BOLDED SECTION)
-Southern Cradle-
family/community structure: matrifocal
environmental characteristics: primarily warm temperature, temperate, numerous water resource and primarily fertile lands, with numerous salt resources
sustenance: primarily sedentary
essence: connection with the cosmos

-Afrikan Worldview-
Cosmology: all things are interconnected and interdependent through spiritual networks within the universe

Ontology [note... I think a portion was cut off in the handout!: (extrasensory fasion) and material (known through the five senses) are one

Epistemology: knowledge comes through what is seen and unseen; self-knowledge; symbolic imagery and rhythm

Axiology (nature of value): Highest value is in interpersonal relationships between persons

Logic (reason): Diunital--emphasizes union of opposites (both/and conclusions); circular

Aesthetics Orientation: Tied to ethics and character

Life-space: Infinite and unlimited (spirit manifesting)

So, what's the European woldview of ours?

-Northern Cradle-
family/community structure: patriarchal
environmental characteristics: primarily cold temperature, arid/low water resources, poor resources and barren land
sustenance: primarily nomadic
essence: disconnection with the cosmos (note: ...what?)

-European Worldview-
Cosmology: independent and separate entities within the universe

Ontology: Material with possible spiritual aspects that are separate and secondary

Epistemology: knowledge comes through counting and measuring

Axiology: Highest value is in objects or the acquisition of objects (note: damn capitalist westerners?)

Logic: Dichotomous -- emphasizes (either/or conclusions); linear

Aesthetics Orientation: External, superficial (note: superficial....?!

Life-space: Finite and limited (beginning with birth and ending with death).

I think this may clarify where I'm coming from.
 
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Dr. Facism:

Given the taxonomies laid out above, is there any course material that takes a normative position vis à vis these taxonomies?

In other words, is part of the argument that follows from these dichotomies something like:

A spiritual ontology is "better" or "preferable" to materialist ontology.
or
An essence that is 'connected to the cosmos' is better or preferable than an essence that is 'disconnected with the cosmos.'
 
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Dr. Facism:

Given the taxonomies laid out above, is there any course material that takes a normative position vis à vis these taxonomies?

In other words, is part of the argument that follows from these dichotomies something like:

A spiritual ontology is "better" or "preferable" to materialist ontology.
or
An essence that is 'connected to the cosmos' is better or preferable than an essence that is 'disconnected with the cosmos.'

No, not outwardly stated. But I felt it was more implied, after all, realize that this is a highly left-wing field already, and then see lumping capitalism with the "European worldview" and it's no stretch at all to see that. Oh yeah, I almost forgot: the "European worldview", remember, is exclusionary--i.e., racist, and I suspect, also meaning "non-Marxist". In this class we are taught that we have the European worldview, and also taught a bit about "white privilege" (not an invalid concept, though.. not necessarily, at least, though I think it was stretched a bit) and the "systematic racism" inherent in our capitalist system, the government, and society.

Again, there's the instructor lumping the "European worldview" with Hillary Clinton; she herself seemed to have some Obama sympathizes. And let's face it, being lumped with Hillary is not the highest compliment one can be paid.

If there were others, I cannot recall them and only the residual disgust is being brought up. Though, I'm pretty sure there were.

And, not all communication is directly verbal, tone of voice and demeanor were also a big part of it.
 
I hope some of you see what I've quoted and see why I've had trouble finding information on this. I can't really find criticisms of that kind of scholarship, but it sure seems shoddy and ridiculous to me.

---

I think it's important to note the following:

If what they say is true about having the "African worldview", and their "epistemology" is looking inward, intuition, etc, I can only wonder what standards of scholarship they hold themselves to.
 
Afrocentrism I can find very little information about. The article on skepdic focuses mainly on the belief that Egyptians were "Black", or something. I'm coming here and hoping someone educated and knowledgeable about this subject can enlighten me over what I may have been told that's pure hogwash--it's really hard to sort fact from fiction in instances such as these.

Pick up and read just about anything written by John McWhorter. Losing the Race deals with this most explicitly.
 
Pick up and read just about anything written by John McWhorter. Losing the Race deals with this most explicitly.
Ah, yes, and then there's that viewpoint. Not something we were well-acquainted with in that class, if you know what I mean.

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll add it to my summer reading.
 
Finally this topic is on track.
Better late than never :)

Interestingly enough, the two "worldviews" (African and European) that you quote here are almost identical to some lists that I've seen before. Except that instead of black and white worldviews, they were female and male worldviews. The correspondences are uncanny.
 
Better late than never :)

Interestingly enough, the two "worldviews" (African and European) that you quote here are almost identical to some lists that I've seen before. Except that instead of black and white worldviews, they were female and male worldviews. The correspondences are uncanny.

Let's be honest, our social structure is not ideal. We have inequity, abuses, suffering, etc, etc. The average person in our society feels rather powerless and the members of traditionally oppressed groups are going to feel even more so. Who's at the top of the structure? Generally white males with a professed trend towards Christianity. They're not all concentrated up there, to be sure, and the upper echelons have been penetrated by members of other groups in the last century or so, but they're the ones who are seen wielding the power.

I'd estimate that around 60% of the populace thinks that if they were in charge, things would be better. Combine this with the romanticization of ancient peoples and the, "affluent savage," hypothesis (hunter-gathers tend to live more comfortably than people in complex societies) and this is what you get.

I maintain that there is a good amount of value in teaching the other side of history and the accomplishments of non-Europeans where relevant. Malcom X has a quote about not being able to do anything if you believe you've never done anything. He makes a good point. However, (and I'd bet in his later years, he'd agree with me) you shouldn't lie about it and this is the problem with Afro-centrism (and Euro-centrism when it lionizes certain historical figures *coughColumbusthehandhackingasswipecough*). As a minority of about two, I'd feel angrier if it turned out I'd been lied to about the accomplishments of my ancestors. Fake pride is no pride.
 
Interestingly enough, the two "worldviews" (African and European) that you quote here are almost identical to some lists that I've seen before. Except that instead of black and white worldviews, they were female and male worldviews. The correspondences are uncanny.

...you're right...!

Certain segments of the racial and feminist movements have some sort of... almost postmodernist, influence (yeah, what's new huh?), along with of course radical left-wing politics (much to the chagrin of many leftists!)

That's a very interesting observation to make.

The constants seem to be a rejection of empirical observation in favor of intuition/internal ways of knowing, anti-individualistic, anti-capitalist and collectivistic politics and view of social, Marxist/conflict theory, and of course the patriarchy is bad since women were oppressed so having women be the head is much better.

I knew there was something very familiar about this all but couldn't think of what. Well, I knew it conformed to a general picture of the ideologies in the humanities (feminism, anti-capitalistim/Marxism, etc) but it's quite interesting that the parallels are so blatant.
 
I think it's a real shame that an intro to Black Studies would be so heavily predicated on Afrocentrist historical revisionism. There are myriad areas of study for an intro course that wouldn't even need to discuss Africa per se like literature (Ellison), social criticism (Douglas, de Bois), science (Carver) how sports and the military effected integration and the end of Jim Crow, military history (54th Mass., Tuskeegee Airmen, The Black Panthers). Hell, you could probably spend half of the course discussing African American Lives I and II.

Afrocentrism isn't as bad IMO as Holocaust denial in the annals of revisionist history, but I'd place it on par with the "femicentrism" based on the writings of Marija Gimbutas.

Capitalism does shape our relationships (DeBeers anyone?)...

Wouldn't that be more like Colonialism or Merchantilism as opposed to free market capitalism?
 
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...

Wouldn't that be more like Colonialism or Merchantilism as opposed to free market capitalism?

Oh, you know, I can't believe I'd forgotten about that level of shitheadery from the diamond companies. I just meant the pushing of diamonds as a show of, "true love," since that influences our relationships. That aspect of diamonds is the result of one heck of a PR push. The Straight Dope had a nice column on it:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/040903.html

...On the marketing side, De Beers hired advertising firms, starting with N.W. Ayer in the late 1930s, to render axiomatic the idea that diamonds = true love. De Beers and Ayer didn't invent diamond engagement rings but did rescue a fading concept--in 1932 worldwide diamond sales had been only $100,000. Ayer's ploys ranged from planting news stories about newly betrothed celebrities flaunting big rocks to positioning diamonds as heirlooms, preventing the market from being flooded with secondhand goods. (The market for used diamonds is dismal, by the way.) The campaign worked--U.S. wholesale diamond sales increased from $23 million in 1939 to $2.1 billion in 1979. The J. Walter Thompson agency performed a similar miracle in Japan in the 1960s, essentially creating a tradition of diamond engagement rings out of thin air...
 
Let's be honest, our social structure is not ideal. We have inequity, abuses, suffering, etc, etc. The average person in our society feels rather powerless and the members of traditionally oppressed groups are going to feel even more so. Who's at the top of the structure? Generally white males with a professed trend towards Christianity. They're not all concentrated up there, to be sure, and the upper echelons have been penetrated by members of other groups in the last century or so, but they're the ones who are seen wielding the power.

I'd estimate that around 60% of the populace thinks that if they were in charge, things would be better. Combine this with the romanticization of ancient peoples and the, "affluent savage," hypothesis (hunter-gathers tend to live more comfortably than people in complex societies) and this is what you get.

I maintain that there is a good amount of value in teaching the other side of history and the accomplishments of non-Europeans where relevant. Malcom X has a quote about not being able to do anything if you believe you've never done anything. He makes a good point. However, (and I'd bet in his later years, he'd agree with me) you shouldn't lie about it and this is the problem with Afro-centrism (and Euro-centrism when it lionizes certain historical figures *coughColumbusthehandhackingasswipecough*). As a minority of about two, I'd feel angrier if it turned out I'd been lied to about the accomplishments of my ancestors. Fake pride is no pride.

Oh, naturally. I feel that everyone in history needs to be taken down a peg--the founding fathers, "great leaders", and many other people. Of course they end up doing the same thing just on their side, proving they're not that different.

My policy is "have no heroes" and this is part of the reason.

HOWEVER, I don't believe in "black pride" or any other sort of pride. Your accomplishments are who you are, you are not what someone who just-so happened to have some genes in common with you did. I am a large portion of a certain ethnicity myself, and I feel no "pride" towards that group of people, because I'm myself and no one else. But I am digressing too much on my individualistic outlook, I think---

---though, the very opposite is the premise of these sorts of Studies, isn't it?

It's also true that we don't learn enough about Eastern and African civilizations in school, although for historical reasons the west "won out" in terms of influence...

Part of why I took a Black Studies was the curiosity--would this class be what I thought it would be (oh, I was more right than I expected!) or would it be a more fair and critical assessment of all sides with a focus on "Blacks" and what's generally been ignored in normal curriculum for reasons resulting from history, like accomplishments of African civilizations, black leaders, and things that history books generally don't mention? Along with the obvious race relation issues (being black in a white society).
 
Oh, you know, I can't believe I'd forgotten about that level of shitheadery from the diamond companies. I just meant the pushing of diamonds as a show of, "true love," since that influences our relationships. That aspect of diamonds is the result of one heck of a PR push. The Straight Dope had a nice column on it:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/040903.html

I have to confess myself that I judge people in my head when they express some sort of preference or love for overpriced hunks of compressed carbon.
 
I think it's a real shame that an intro to Black Studies would be so heavily predicated on Afrocentrist historical revisionism. There are myriad areas of study for an intro course that wouldn't even need to discuss Africa per se like literature (Ellison), social criticism (Douglas, de Bois), science (Carver) how sports and the military effected integration and the end of Jim Crow, military history (54th Mass., Tuskeegee Airmen, The Black Panthers). Hell, you could probably spend half of the course discussing African American Lives I and II.

Afrocentrism isn't as bad IMO as Holocaust denial in the annals of revisionist history, but I'd place it on par with the "femicentrism" based on the writings of Marija Gimbutas.



Wouldn't that be more like Colonialism or Merchantilism as opposed to free market capitalism?

One of my online friends said much the same thing--so much you could learn about African Americans in history and African American contributions, and instead it's just indoctrination (his word as well).
 
I think now would be the time to reveal that this African worldview also views time as nonlinear and all that which I'm sure you've heard before--that's the reason my instructor once gave for occasionally being late.

No joke.
 
Oh, naturally. I feel that everyone in history needs to be taken down a peg--the founding fathers, "great leaders", and many other people. Of course they end up doing the same thing just on their side, proving they're not that different.

My policy is "have no heroes" and this is part of the reason.

HOWEVER, I don't believe in "black pride" or any other sort of pride. Your accomplishments are who you are, you are not what someone who just-so happened to have some genes in common with you did. I am a large portion of a certain ethnicity myself, and I feel no "pride" towards that group of people, because I'm myself and no one else. But I am digressing too much on my individualistic outlook, I think---

---though, the very opposite is the premise of these sorts of Studies, isn't it?

It's also true that we don't learn enough about Eastern and African civilizations in school, although for historical reasons the west "won out" in terms of influence...

Part of why I took a Black Studies was the curiosity--would this class be what I thought it would be (oh, I was more right than I expected!) or would it be a more fair and critical assessment of all sides with a focus on "Blacks" and what's generally been ignored in normal curriculum for reasons resulting from history, like accomplishments of African civilizations, black leaders, and things that history books generally don't mention? Along with the obvious race relation issues (being black in a white society).

I'm with you on the, "pride," thing. I take public transit and they've put in TVs. They advertise this program called, "American Latino," and show segments. One of the ads had a guy saying, "I have brown pride," and I really wanted to know when the Latinos started speaking for the Indians, Middle Easterners, Native Americans, Mediterranean Europeans, North Africans, and mutli-racial folk like me. How can you be proud of an accident of birth anyway?

For me, being mutli-racial and having made your own identity and then coming into an area where identity politics are the norm is a bit weird. You have the opportunity to check out your ethnic groups, but you have to explain to them that, yes, you are one of them. On the other hand, you don't feel attached to a particular group, and pride yourself on being who the individual you made yourself (with outside influences of course).

I do think that there can and should be a real value to these Ethnic Studies. If we don't talk about how we've treated race in this country, I don't think we're going to get any better (did you see Metapedia yet? If so, do it on an empty stomach as you try to read their pages on race. We're still dealing with this). We need that and we need better history classes.

There aren't a lot of heroes, but there are a lot of humans who managed to some impressive things and occasionally, the right thing. Knowing Malcom X was a thug and a separatist at one point is vital to knowing who he was when he died.

I wonder, is there some way you could express what you had wanted from the class to the professor? The department? Do they do course evals regularly?
 
I think now would be the time to reveal that this African worldview also views time as nonlinear and all that which I'm sure you've heard before--that's the reason my instructor once gave for occasionally being late.

No joke.

Ask him if s/he remembers the 2008 United States Presidential Election.

I bet it, "doesn't work that way."

But y'know, I have some math models in my class that I'm not allowed to, "let time run backwards," maybe s/he can help me with that.

Oh and, which African group views time that way?
 
Oh, you know, I can't believe I'd forgotten about that level of shitheadery from the diamond companies. I just meant the pushing of diamonds as a show of, "true love," since that influences our relationships. That aspect of diamonds is the result of one heck of a PR push. The Straight Dope had a nice column on it:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/040903.html

Ah, missed that angle and agree with you completely! I remember seeing a documentary on diamonds where workers in Botswana were crawling along the ground with tin cans picking up diamonds as they went. Rare my patoot.
 
I do think that there can and should be a real value to these Ethnic Studies. If we don't talk about how we've treated race in this country, I don't think we're going to get any better (did you see Metapedia yet? If so, do it on an empty stomach as you try to read their pages on race. We're still dealing with this). We need that and we need better history classes.

Of course.

There aren't a lot of heroes, but there are a lot of humans who managed to some impressive things and occasionally, the right thing. Knowing Malcom X was a thug and a separatist at one point is vital to knowing who he was when he died.

I say "no heroes" because once you idolize someone, it's very hard to admit to their flaws.

I wonder, is there some way you could express what you had wanted from the class to the professor? The department? Do they do course evals regularly?

They don't care what a lowly undergraduate thinks, and they'd probably think I'm a racist for saying. Bleh, they probably have a separate course on "Black History" or something.

I also prefer to keep a low profile, that way I can pretend to have some sympathies to the instructor's biases when I write papers (take a wild guess why I feel the need to do so), and I don't want to get a reputation and have it possibly come back to haunt me.
 
...
I say "no heroes" because once you idolize someone, it's very hard to admit to their flaws.

Very true.

They don't care what a lowly undergraduate thinks, and they'd probably think I'm a racist for saying. Bleh, they probably have a separate course on "Black History" or something.

I also prefer to keep a low profile, that way I can pretend to have some sympathies to the instructor's biases when I write papers (take a wild guess why I feel the need to do so), and I don't want to get a reputation and have it possibly come back to haunt me.

Evals are anonymous (or supposed to be) so unless you really think you can be identified, I'd take that route.

It sucks having to keep your head down.
 

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