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Chiropractic medicine.

More or less off-topic, but... a friend of mine recently got tinnitus after an unfortunate strike to the head during kendo training. For a few weeks his ears were ringing really loudly and no doctors or physical therapists seemed to help him.
Then someone said, "oh, I had a friend with tinnitus, but he went to a chiro and it disappeared instantly!". I was immediately suspicious and I got very worried when another said he'd contact our friend and recommend a chiro. Even if we assume that the anecdote is true, tinnitus has hundreds of different causes and there's no way to know it'd be remotely beneficial to our friend.... and the last thing he needed was a risky spine or neck manipulation!

Fortunately, he didn't go to a chiro after all... but less fortunately, he went to see an acupuncturist instead. :newlol And, of course, he claims his ringing has decreased dramatically since then. I didn't have the heart to tell him it was just a placebo, he seemed so relieved that he could sleep again... and besides, I figure that if he's going to get a woo placebo treatment, acupuncture is equally worthless, but far less risky than a chiro, no? I just hope that if his tinnitus does subside, that he doesn't continue to spend his money into useless appointments.
 
Morrigan, post #143,

I suspect that the safety of acupuncture is not well-understood, and problems are under-reported. We know that people have been infected from inadequately cleaned (sterilized) equipment. In addition, lungs have been punctured, and hearts have been fatally punctured. Medicine has a record of trying to identify errors in order to prevent them, chiro and acu are actively sweeping problems under the rug. Chiro is bigger than acu, so we know less about the dangers of acu.
 
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True, but I suspect that the odds of having dirty needles at the acupuncturist are rather low, compared to the dangers of neck manipulation?
 
arthwollipot said:
I had my neck manipulated for years with no apparent ill-effects.
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So did Pierrette Parisien.

Quebec Coroner: Patient Death Caused by Chiropractic Adjustment​

A Quebec coroner has concluded that a chiropractic adjustment contributed to the death of a Montreal woman. Coroner Paul G. Dionne said the death of Pierrette Parisien, a 36-year-old mother of two, was accidental*, but that the chiropractic neck adjustment she received "created damages to the blood vessels in her neck, leading to her death."

Parisien had been a regular chiropractic patient for nine years prior to her Feb. 20, 2006 appointment…

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3987/is_20070604/ai_n19287954
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*This was also the ruling of the Coroner in the Lana Dale Lewis case where the use of the word "accidental" meant "not due to natural causes”. The Coroner’s Jury were clearly instructed by the Coroner and other counsel that if they were convinced that the cause of Lana Lewis' stroke was as a result of the neck manipulation, this would be a traumatic origin of the stroke, and their verdict would be 'accident’:
http://www.chirobase.org/15News/lewis.html
 
Morrigan said:
I suspect that the odds of having dirty needles at the acupuncturist are rather low, compared to the dangers of neck manipulation?
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If it's any help, this is what Professor Edzard Ernst and scientist Simon Singh had to say about the safety of acupuncture a couple of weeks ago:
Studies have shown that acupuncture treatments can result in slight pain, bleeding or bruising.

These adverse reactions are only minor and transient, but they occur in roughly 10 per cent of patients so are relatively common.

Slightly more serious side-effects include fainting, dizziness and vomiting, but these are less common and usually associated with anxious patients who may have a fear of needles.

Although most patients may accept such risks as an unsurprising consequence of being pierced with needles, there are two serious adverse effects to consider.

The first is infection. There have been several documented cases of patients contracting diseases such as hepatitis.

The journal Hepatology documented how 35 out of 366 patients contracted hepatitis B from an acupuncture clinic in America.

The infection was caused by re-using needles that have not been properly sterilised, and part of the problem may be due to the Chinese tradition of storing needles in alcohol solutions, which is not sufficient to protect against hepatitis viruses.

The second is that needles might puncture a major nerve or organ.
For example, needling at the base of the skull can lead to brain damage, and there are more than 60 reported cases of punctured lungs.

Most worrying of all, there is a report of an acupuncturist inserting a needle in the chest of an Austrian patient which pierced her heart and killed her.
Normally, needling at this point is entirely safe because the sternum protects the heart, but one in 20 people have a hole in that bone which cannot be felt or seen.

Although acupuncture carries some common and serious risks, it is important to stress that the common risks are not at all serious and the serious risks are not at all common - they need to be seen in the context of the millions of treatments given each year.

Moreover, the serious risks can be minimised by visiting a medically trained acupuncturist who has a full knowledge of anatomy and uses disposable needles.

On the other hand, the evidence for the efficacy of acupuncture ranges from zero for a range of conditions to borderline for some types of pain relief and nausea.

Hence, it's only worth considering for pain relief and nausea - and only then if you feel the supposed benefits outweigh the small risks.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...ain.html?in_article_id=559711&in_page_id=1774
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And here’s what they had to say about chiropractic:
DOES IT WORK? There is no evidence to suggest that spinal manipulation is effective for anything but back pain and even then conventional approaches (such as regular exercise and ibuprofen) are just as likely to be effective and are cheaper.

Neck manipulation has been linked to neurological complications such as strokes - in 1998, a 20-year-old Canadian woman died after neck manipulation caused a blood clot which led to stroke. We would strongly recommend physiotherapy exercises and osteopathy ahead of chiropractic therapy because they are at least effective and much safer.

If you do decide to visit a chiropractor despite our concerns and warnings, we very strongly recommend you confirm your chiropractor won't manipulate your neck. The dangers of chiropractic therapy to children are particularly worrying because a chiropractor would be manipulating an immature spine.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...ain.html?in_article_id=557946&in_page_id=1774
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And, to sum up, this is what they propose (in their book Trick or Treatment? Alternative Medicine on Trial) that all acupuncturists be compelled by law to disclose to their patients about acupuncture…
WARNING: This treatment has shown only very limited evidence that it can treat some types of pain and nausea. If it is effective for these conditions, then its benefits appear to be short-lived and minor. It is more expensive than conventional treatments, and very likely to be less effective. It is likely that its major impact is as a placebo in treating pain and nausea. In the treatment of all other conditions, acupuncture either has no effect other than a placebo effect. It is a largely safe treatment when practised by a trained acupuncturist.
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…and this is what they propose that all chiropractors be compelled by law to disclose to their patients about chiropractic therapy:
“WARNING: This treatment carries the risk of stroke or death if spinal manipulation is applied to the neck. Elsewhere on the spine, chiropractic therapy is relatively safe. It has shown some evidence of benefit in the treatment of back pain, but conventional treatments are usually equally effective and much cheaper. In the treatment of all other conditions, chiropractic therapy is ineffective except that it might act as a placebo.”
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Armed with that information, it all boils down to personal choice.
 
We really should do something about this problem. Every year thousands of people die, millions are crippled. I don't understand how they even stay in business, with the patient roles decreasing like crazy.

And the lawsuits. How do they afford the malpractice insurance? And why hasn't at least one Media outlet done a series on the grieving families of the hundreds of thousands of people killed over the years?

And the cripples, you see them everywhere, dragging there distorted spines around, in terrible pain. Why don't they warn people of the dangers? Why do they keep telling their friends to go? Can't they see the extreme pain and bad posture right in front of them?

Tens of Millions of disabled people on Government checks, draining the economy, all because of quackery. Can't anything be done?
 
Morrigan said:
More or less off-topic, but... a friend of mine recently got tinnitus after an unfortunate strike to the head during kendo training. For a few weeks his ears were ringing really loudly and no doctors or physical therapists seemed to help him.
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Off topic reply: I just read about a new (to me at least) treatment for tinnitus, using a laser to stimulate the cells, causing them to heal up. Don't know much yet, but it is being done by a clinic up the road, real Doctors as far as I can tell. Supposed to work for a certain percentage of people who have the treatments done.
 
robinson said:
We really should do something about this problem. Every year thousands of people die, millions are crippled. I don't understand how they even stay in business, with the patient roles decreasing like crazy.

And the lawsuits. How do they afford the malpractice insurance? And why hasn't at least one Media outlet done a series on the grieving families of the hundreds of thousands of people killed over the years?

And the cripples, you see them everywhere, dragging there distorted spines around, in terrible pain. Why don't they warn people of the dangers? Why do they keep telling their friends to go? Can't they see the extreme pain and bad posture right in front of them?

Tens of Millions of disabled people on Government checks, draining the economy, all because of quackery. Can't anything be done?
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So what’s your point? Are you saying that it’s acceptable for people to die or be severely crippled as a result of chiropractic treatment? Or that it’s OK as long as only a few people are affected? If so, presumably you’d be comfortable repeating your quote above to Diane Rodrigue:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0505/primetime.html

(About 25 min 45 sec in)
 
Blue Wode said:
I think it should also be mentioned here that although one sCAM establishment, The Royal London Homoeopathic Hospital, looks like it could be on its way out, another, ‘The Royal College of Chiropractors’, looks like it could be on its way in…
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It looks like it's happened...

College of Chiropractors granted Royal Charter
Dated: 12 November 2012

At a meeting of the Privy Council on Wednesday, the Queen approved the grant of a Royal Charter to the College of Chiropractors, the first Royal Charter to be granted to a complementary medicine organisation in the UK.

The College is an academic, professional membership body, established along the lines of the Medical Royal Colleges, which over the past 13 years has sought to ensure quality, safety and excellence are at the forefront of chiropractic practice in the public interest.

Chiropractic is regulated by statute and although chiropractors provide their services largely within the private sector, NHS funding for chiropractic treatment is now emerging region by region under the Department of Health’s new commissioning arrangements. Chiropractors specialise in the diagnosis and treatment of problems affecting the joints, muscles and nerves and are probably best known for treating low back pain, a condition which costs the equivalent of between 1% and 2% of the UK GDP and has a significant impact on people’s lives.

Rarely granted, a Royal Charter signals permanence and stability and, in the College of Chiropractors’ case, a clear indication to others of the leadership value and innovative approach the College brings to the development of the chiropractic profession. The Royal Charter essentially formalises the College’s position as a unique, apolitical, consultative body, recognising its role in promoting high practice standards and certifying quality and thus securing public confidence.

Tim Jay, President of the College, said, “The College of Chiropractors’ Royal Charter emphasises to the public and other health bodies that chiropractic is a healthcare profession with parity in the field of musculoskeletal health, providing a viable and recognised option for patients.”
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Link: http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...harter-163-news.aspx&hl=en&prmd=imvns&strip=1


From four years ago:
A body applying for a Royal Charter is normally expected to meet a number of criteria, one of which is that it should comprise members of a unique profession. However, the only unique aspect of chiropractic would appear to be its pseudoscientific underpinnings. It has been said that without their subluxation theory, chiropractors are reduced to manipulative therapists practicing a very limited modality shared by osteopaths, physiatrists, sports trainers, physical therapists and others: That without subluxation theory, chiropractic's claim that it is a unique and comprehensive 'alternative' to standard medicine is lost. Furthermore, a body applying for a Royal Charter is expected to have 5,000 or more members. In the UK, there are currently around 2,300 chiropractors.

http://www.ebm-first.com/chiropract...sues/1183-royal-college-of-chiropractors.html
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Note that the NHS doesn't endorse chiropractic...
http://www.ebm-first.com/chiropract...ctic-care-worth-p45-million-for-veterans.html

...and that many Primary Care Organisations are refusing to fund NICE's recommendation of spinal manipulation for back pain because of the controversy surrounding it:
http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/gps-barred-from-applying-nice-back-pain-guidance/11040042.article

No doubt a fairly large part of the controversy involves the unresolved problem of the chiropractic 'bait and switch'...
http://www.dcscience.net/?p=1516
 
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I dunno guys, but promoting a chiropractor as "one of the good 5% who doesn't promote woo" is akin to saying " I like my alchemist because his healing teas are delicious!" it ignores the fact that the entire principle behind the job description is absolute malarky.
 
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