• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Expelled - Why does Ben Stein hate America?

JEROME DA GNOME said:
Science has not devolved enough data to answer that question.
Click to expand...

Jerome, I'd like to probe your understanding of the scientific process with a hypothetical question.

Given all historical records, there is no mention of the Declaration of Independence from 1775 on back in the historical record. There is mention of the Declaration of Independence from 1777 on until now.

From this:
1) Can we conclude that the Declaration of Independence had a beginning?
2) If so, can we approximate when that beginning was, even if we can not exactly pin point when or how?

Take your time.
 
pgwenthold said:
Who are you talking about here? Ben Stein? Or Norman Finkelstein?
Click to expand...

I was talking of Stein. I don't know why Finklestein is in this discussion and I don't know much about him, but he had problems for being politically/racially offensive instead of being an educator, kind of like that Churchill jerk. Where does that relate to being competent in scientific thinking?
 
Elind said:
I was talking of Stein. I don't know why Finklestein is in this discussion and I don't know much about him, but he had problems for being politically/racially offensive instead of being an educator,
Click to expand...

According to DePaul University, he was in fact an excellent teacher and scholar. I don't disagree that he was politically offensive to a lot of people, but it's not fair to say that it was "instead of being an educator." All indications are that he was both.

kind of like that Churchill jerk. Where does that relate to being competent in scientific thinking?
Click to expand...

Finkelstein never claimed to be a scientist.

I am just pointing out that he was dismissed very obviously because he held an "offensive viewpoint." If Ben Stein is only opposed to "viewpoint discrimination" then he should be up for defending Finkelstein, right?
 
Upchurch said:
Jerome, I'd like to probe your understanding of the scientific process with a hypothetical question.
Click to expand...

I welcome your inquiry.

Given all historical records, there is no mention of the Declaration of Independence from 1775 on back in the historical record. There is mention of the Declaration of Independence from 1777 on until now.
Click to expand...

Are these facts? I think not. Are we postulating that these are facts for our experiment?

If so...

From this:
1) Can we conclude that the Declaration of Independence had a beginning?
2) If so, can we approximate when that beginning was, even if we can not exactly pin point when or how?

Take your time.
Click to expand...

1. No, outside of "now". The validity of a vitally important document purported to be over 200 years old with zero evidence of its existence until "now" is incredibly suspect.
 
pgwenthold said:
If Ben Stein is only opposed to "viewpoint discrimination" then he should be up for defending Finkelstein, right?
Click to expand...

Methinks somebody needs to ask Mr. Stein, the America-hater, why that doesn't seem to be the case.
 
pgwenthold said:
According to DePaul University, he was in fact an excellent teacher and scholar. I don't disagree that he was politically offensive to a lot of people, but it's not fair to say that it was "instead of being an educator." All indications are that he was both.



Finkelstein never claimed to be a scientist.

I am just pointing out that he was dismissed very obviously because he held an "offensive viewpoint." If Ben Stein is only opposed to "viewpoint discrimination" then he should be up for defending Finkelstein, right?
Click to expand...

I haven't researched it, but I can hold offensive viewpoints and not offend people at work (as opposed to here) simply by keeping my mouth shut. Want to bet you can be legally fired in any private or public job for being an offensive SOB? Why not in Universities?
 
pgwenthold said:
Yeah, but don't expect me to get anywhere near that stupid expelled website.
Click to expand...

Only if they can be forced to play fair, rather than edit articles, etc, in their favor, which we know the Wedgies would never do, eh?
 
jj said:
Methinks you need to read Paine's work a bit more carefully, then. Bear in mind the guy was a touch sarcastic, and has written himself that he was writing for the effect. Other things he's written do seem to suggest that he, himself, was not a believer. Common Sense, for instance, would seem to be revealing.
Click to expand...
Paine was unquestionably hostile towards existing religions, but was also a deist, and he explains why in The Age of Reason. You have to remember that he was writing half a century before Darwin, and so arguments similar to Paley's watchmaker carried much more weight. IIRC, it is with a similar argument that he justifies his belief, and he might have abandoned it if he had been introduced to the ideas of evolution.
Then again, he might not have :con2:.
 
Elind said:
I haven't researched it, but I can hold offensive viewpoints and not offend people at work (as opposed to here) simply by keeping my mouth shut. Want to bet you can be legally fired in any private or public job for being an offensive SOB? Why not in Universities?
Click to expand...


I don't know, why not ask the people who are complaining about it?

I said it above, but since you don't read well, apparently, I will repeat it: I'm not the one complaining about people being fired for their "viewpoint". Ben Stein is.
 
thiscrazyworld005.jpg


I think this cartoon pretty much says it all.
 
pgwenthold said:
I don't know, why not ask the people who are complaining about it?

I said it above, but since you don't read well, apparently, I will repeat it: I'm not the one complaining about people being fired for their "viewpoint". Ben Stein is.
Click to expand...

I read well; you read into too much.

I wasn't correcting YOU, just those who do get indignant, like Stein.
 
Did anyone watch Bill Stein on Glenn Beck?

Honestly, I was flaberghasted. Beck sounded like he had never even considered issues like evolution before. He "learned" a lot from Expelled.

Stein accused the Germans, today, of giving a "super pill" to old people so they could kill themselves, and this was entirely accepted by Beck. Not a glimmer that he had never heard of this before this moment with Stein. No questions asked.

Dawkins was quoted out of context, of course (and in dark sinister lighting in Expelled).

All educated young people today (except from Christian schools) have no respect for human life.

It was incredibly sad to see how this garbage can be presented without thought, all the while complaining that faith based science doesn't get equal time.

Actually it was sickening. Genn Beck goes into the same dumpster as Larry King. Even O'Reilly wouldn't be that stupid.
 
I kid you not.

See if it's on video somewhere. This was as a "logical" conclusion from belief in Eugenics which follows from Evolution, which is natural to Nazis, who were German, by the way, and they now give their old people pills so they die and get out of the way faster, and it's "some kind" of super barbiturate.

Glenn Beck says "really? that's terrible".

I kid you not. This stuff is worse than Rev. Wright who is just a whacked preacher after all. Stein of course is just a whacked jew that we expect better of, and Glenn Beck is just a whacked alcohloic that we expect nothing of.

Next we can talk about Larry King and CNN.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom