Afrocentrism?

[Dr. Fascism]

Which is why your campus probably has an ombudsman. This is what they are for. If you legitimately did the work, even though you disagreed with the political viewpoint and completed the assignments as asked, then you deserve a grade based on your scholarship. If you have done all that and you think your poor grade is the result of politics, then you get your ass down to the ombudsman and the department and you have them serve you an ass.

I'm not the type to place faith in that, too. I just keep my opinions to myself when possible in these situations.

Oh, and I truly am being sincere. I have a story about this, as back when I started taking the class, I was quoting some of the going-ons of it on a message board somewhere else (no longer able to retrieve those posts, and unable to remember much in them, but there was more interesting stuff there...).

Someone spoke up and said that they went to the same university I did some years ago (a surprise given that it's not a big-name university, but they knew the university...), and they (the guy had friends in the class, I guess) constantly voiced disagreement in their Black Studies course, and ended up being failed despite doing the work and such as you said. They went to the dean, and according to him, they got their A's and the professor "mysteriously" disappeared (fired, obviously). That's the gist of it, anyway, as I remember...

Hearing hijinks like that certainly compounds suspicion, don't you think? Also, the instructors I think have a fair amount of leeway over how they can grade essay assignments, and in truth I don't deal well with authority (no, not rebellious--shy).

Forgive me for having a great deal of difficulty trusting subject matter when ideology fuels it. I don't even trust a lot of the arguments I hear that validate my own political beliefs and so on so I'm not just whining over a simple disagreement.

I haven't even brought up the quality of the actual teaching in this class; a lot of my peers have expressed negative things about how she teaches (like getting angry when nobody volunteers to answer one of her questions). But that's not what I'm discussing.

 

[slingblade]

You think there's strife about a class called "Black Studies," try telling people you took a class called "White Identities." My ears are still ringing.

Those who are telling you college is "like that" are right. As a skeptic, the first big favor you can do yourself is realize the whole idea of college is pretty much a farce as far as expectations go. I heard of a professor at my school who would fail you if you disagreed with her, would make your time in her class utter hell if you dared to bring your own brain into the room. If your papers reflected your own opinion or scholarship and not hers...F. If your discussions didn't go along her lines of thinking...F. And yes, she got away with it. I never took her class, so I can't say how, but my classmates said the biggest thing you learned in it was how to kiss her butt and parrot her line.

I did have one prof whose first day of class speech was this:

If you are a man, and you are as smart as me, you'll get a B.
If you are a man, and you are smarter than me, you'll get an A.
And if you are a woman, and work your ass off, you might get a C.

I got a B. I was an object of wonder and amazement that semester, as in 40 years of teaching, the number of B's that man gave to women could be counted on one hand. Oh, and he made us write 144 essays, but graded only about 20 or 25 of them. Since you never knew which essays he would ask for at the end of the chapter, you had to do them all, but you only turned in maybe 4 to 9 of them. The rest, he never saw.

Professors develop favorite texts and have their own pet points of view like anyone else. Sometimes, they are not right, and not even wrong. Yes, you should be checking out what you're told, especially if it sets off your BS meter.

However, getting angry won't help, the others are very right about that. It sets up an immediate wall that your reason will come too late to ever breach. If you haven't done so yet, google your subject and see how it's being taught in other schools. You can often find class syllabi from other colleges online, and can compare and constrast the texts used, the topics to be covered, and even some sample tests or quizzes.

Start looking at some of the footnote sources from your text, and see what the entire article or essay actually said, what commentary was made about it, and what further sources are recommended. Then read those, too. Or at least scan them.

Check out what you're being told, but don't bother getting angry. In a college setting, it can sometimes be like teaching a pig to sing: it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

 

[Dr. Fascism]

Here's another:

Certainly, capitalism, racism, and sexism shape our relationships, but they are systems created by humans and they can be changed and rebuilt by humans.

Ah yes, that capitalism, brother to racism and sister to sexism. Very good form for a college textbook.

 

[LostAngeles]

I'm not the type to place faith in that, too. I just keep my opinions to myself when possible in these situations.

Oh, and I truly am being sincere. I have a story about this, as back when I started taking the class, I was quoting some of the going-ons of it on a message board somewhere else (no longer able to retrieve those posts, and unable to remember much in them, but there was more interesting stuff there...).

Someone spoke up and said that they went to the same university I did some years ago (a surprise given that it's not a big-name university, but they knew the university...), and they (the guy had friends in the class, I guess) constantly voiced disagreement in their Black Studies course, and ended up being failed despite doing the work and such as you said. They went to the dean, and according to him, they got their A's and the professor "mysteriously" disappeared (fired, obviously). That's the gist of it, anyway, as I remember...

Hearing hijinks like that certainly compounds suspicion, don't you think? Also, the instructors I think have a fair amount of leeway over how they can grade essay assignments, and in truth I don't deal well with authority (no, not rebellious--shy).

Forgive me for having a great deal of difficulty trusting subject matter when ideology fuels it. I don't even trust a lot of the arguments I hear that validate my own political beliefs and so on so I'm not just whining over a simple disagreement.

I haven't even brought up the quality of the actual teaching in this class; a lot of my peers have expressed negative things about how she teaches (like getting angry when nobody volunteers to answer one of her questions). But that's not what I'm discussing.

Yes, and the reason they do that is because if they don't, you can get a lawyer and have the school's ass.

Maybe I'm in the wrong department, but all the horror stories of college have not happened to me. My professors are interested in my succeeding. They make themselves very available. Some have promoted the undergraduate research programs. Grading turn-arounds are pretty good. They're firm, but can accommodate as needed. Most of my nightmares are workload and administrative in nature, but the latter works better when I go to my department, generally.

 

[LostAngeles]

Here's another:



Ah yes, that capitalism, brother to racism and sister to sexism. Very good form for a college textbook.

Capitalism does shape our relationships (DeBeers anyone?) but like religion and communism and science, it's a human tool which can be wielded for good or ill. No more, no less.

 

[slingblade]

Here's another:



Ah yes, that capitalism, brother to racism and sister to sexism. Very good form for a college textbook.

Actually, that's not untrue. Class, gender, and race are inextricably intertwined. They are not discreet entities that only bump uglies once in a blue moon.

You're starting to sound, and I don't mean this harshly, like a black-and-white thinker (no pun intended, srsly. ). College will teach you that the world and its human systems are largely grey areas, with few absolutes. This is a very good and handy thing to learn, and makes your mind more flexible, your thoughts broader and deeper.

 

[Dr. Fascism]

slingblade--that's the very assumption my posts are made off of. I'm not stupid.

I just was hoping to hear... other opinions (besides the patronizing) with people that may know something about this, since I can't find any other critical information on this "subject area"...just a few things which confirm and fueled my suspicions here and there. It seems to be one of those things that people avoid criticizing--after all, you disagree with something called "Black Studies"? You must be a racist, right?

But PLEASE read my posts. I said I am finishing up my class. I never said I was angry.. or rather, that I acted angry or such. Maybe both disgusted and amused at the same time. But not really "angry".

If you need to know, I expect to get a "B" in this class.

 

[slingblade]

slingblade--that's the very assumption my posts are made off of. I'm not stupid.

Never said you were, never thought you were. Sorry for trying to help and doing it so poorly.

 

[Dr. Fascism]

Actually, that's not untrue. Class, gender, and race are inextricably intertwined. They are not discreet entities that only bump uglies once in a blue moon.

You're starting to sound, and I don't mean this harshly, like a black-and-white thinker (no pun intended, srsly. ). College will teach you that the world and its human systems are largely grey areas, with few absolutes. This is a very good and handy thing to learn, and makes your mind more flexible, your thoughts broader and deeper.

Oh please. You're starting to sound like a villain out of an Ayn Rand (no, I'm not a fan) novel.

But seriously, yes, class, gender, and race are intertwined, but so are a lot of many other things--intelligence, good looks, health, and so on.

The point of what I was quoting was the obvious implication that capitalism is akin to racism and sexism. Silly Marxist tripe.

And your comment about me thinking in black-and-white terms is completely unsubstantiated, and I think you're really just trying to sell me a pill I don't want to swallow.

Also, I'd appreciate that I not be patronized just because I'm a college undergraduate. I know what college is about. I'm smarter than most of my peers who don't know how to question their damn instructors. I'm thoroughly insulted that I came here asking for real thoughts on the subject and if there's things I should know about it in particular, instead I'm being lectured like a 6 year old being told not to trust strangers that promise candy.

What are my concerns? That the vast majority of things I've seen taught is bogus nonsense fueled by racial and political ideology. Basically, I came in here asking for "more info" on the subject in general and instead it's assumed I'm an idiot, by people who didn't even read the damn first sentence of my initial post. Thanks for the warm reception, guys.

Is looking down on people typical of the "skeptic" movement, or just here? I don't post very often but when I lurk some of the hostility and arrogance here is amazing.

 

[slingblade]

Oh please. You're starting to sound like a villain out of an Ayn Rand (no, I'm not a fan) novel.

Am I? How so? I don't read Rand.

But seriously, yes, class, gender, and race are intertwined, but so are a lot of many other things--intelligence, good looks, health, and so on.

Yes, they are. You'd be amazed at how many people don't even consider that, much less know it.

The point of what I was quoting was the obvious implication that capitalism is akin to racism and sexism. Silly Marxist tripe.

Well, if I had to guess, this is your problem: you read things into text that aren't there. Point out the word "akin" in that sentence:

"Certainly, capitalism, racism, and sexism shape our relationships, but they are systems created by humans and they can be changed and rebuilt by humans."

I don't see it, and neither do you. You assumed it. Closed-mindedly.

Just because one can see problems with capitalism doesn't make him a Marxist or even a Socialist. It means only that he can see this system has flaws.

And your comment about me thinking in black-and-white terms is completely unsubstantiated,

It might be. I'll read more of what and how you write to see if my opinion has any substance.

and I think you're really just trying to sell me a pill I don't want to swallow.

What pill would that be?

Also, I'd appreciate that I not be patronized just because I'm a college undergraduate.

I'm not patronizing you for being something I was just two years ago, thanks. I was trying to help you, but I won't be making that mistake with you again. My Ed, you're pretty rude.

I know what college is about. I'm smarter than most of my peers who don't know how to question their damn instructors. I'm thoroughly insulted that I came here asking for real thoughts on the subject and if there's things I should know about it in particular, instead I'm being lectured like a 6 year old being told not to trust strangers that promise candy.

And not at all full of yourself, either.

What are my concerns? That the vast majority of things I've seen taught is bogus nonsense fueled by racial and political ideology

"Seen" taught? The passivity of construction here is a great indicator that you expect learning to be something that's done to you, not something you have to do yourself.

Basically, I came in here asking for "more info" on the subject in general and instead it's assumed I'm an idiot, by people who didn't even read the damn first sentence of my initial post.

I know what time of year it is. I know it's finals, thanks. What the fark does the fact that you came asking for "more info" after the class is done, have to do with what you were taught? And I NEVER ASSUMED YOU WERE AN IDIOT. I still don't.

Thanks for the warm reception, guys.

Up until your final post to me, I wasn't at all hostile to you. I was empathetic, having just gone through the same thing myself. And you are one very angry person--it's literally written all over your writing. I'd appreciate it if you'd back off me, bud, k?

Is looking down on people typical of the "skeptic" movement, or just here? I don't post very often but when I lurk some of the hostility and arrogance here is amazing.

You found your way in. One assumes you can find your way out if we're so unpleasant.

I can't tell you if what you're being taught is codswallop, largely because I wasn't in the class, didn't get the notes, and haven't read your text. What, you want me to pull answers out of my butt for you on something I haven't read?

You, sir, have already made up your mind that your course was bollocks, and you didn't come here for more info at all, but for agreement. Now you're pissed because you haven't gotten it. But I really resent the way you've portrayed me; you're so wrong it isn't funny.

Ah, well. No good deed goes unpunished.

 

[Dr. Fascism]

Oh, a book that I should check out is here:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0195095715/roberttoddcarrolA/
Something for summer reading.

I know I'm having trouble clarifying what I think; finals are coming up work is due and my mind is a little occupied elsewhere, though I had my mind on it so I decided to make this topic now.

Here's a quote that basically sums up what I feel:

Afrocentrism, however, attributes racial differences to biology, ascribing all virtues to blacks and all vices to whites

The "attributes racial differences to biology" is probably the biggest highlight. It was not really outright stated but taken more of an implicit premise in this class--sad, because most of the students going in probably think that "race doesn't exist" and aren't aware of this fact.

You have to understand that the teaching in this course was so sub-par that I don't have a concrete understanding of anything. Mostly we just read a bunch of politically-charged writings by a few authors the entire, then flew by the last few weeks with student presentations on parts of the book. Terrible format. Not much committed to memory, but a lot of stuff suspect.

Here's an article I found using completely different search terms. Rather interesting:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,164121,00.html

The science essay is a strange, error-filled melange of pseudoscience, the Egyptian religion Ma'at and other fanciful ideas, written by Hunter Adams, a former environmental technician at Argonne National Laboratories in Illinois. Yet despite the essay's bizarre claims, it has been accepted not only by Afrocentric extremists but also by apparently scientifically illiterate school boards.

This is more in-line with what I was talking about!

http://www.skeptics.org.uk/article.php?dir=articles&article=afrocentrism.php

Some of this stuff looks like things I have seen, including by authors such as Diop, particularly the whole Egypt dominated by blacks thing. I remember some of our readings mentioning "mystery religions", and such. But some of the more extreme stuff, I have did not see.

So, I'm uncertain--what is the crap? What isn't? I was hoping someone familiar with Karenga in particular (he was the guy that invented Kwanzaa, after all, hardly an unknown figure) could shed some light on things.

 

[slingblade]

From that Time article you linked:

Basing their beliefs largely on a speculative scientific paper published in 1983 by Dr. Frank Barr, a San Francisco physician, the melanists assert that blacks -- who indeed have more of the skin pigment than other races -- possess superior and supernatural traits that can be ascribed to the magical qualities of neuromelanin, a little-studied substance in the brain.

If this is what you were being taught, I'd have to say that based on that article you were being taught crap. The fact that "supernatural" traits are assigned to "magical" melanin content would have set off every bell, whistle, and BS alarm I have.

 

[Wolfman]

Having just come to this thread, I'm appalled at the responses from some people here.

Dr. Fascist states that he is taking a class in which he believes some/much of the information may be wrong, but he does not personally know how to verify or disprove that information. He asks for peoples' suggestions in this regard -- he does not state anywhere that he is taking a specific stance on this, only that he does not understand it well enough to be able to respond reasonably.

Now, he could have had the same problem in any course. The question of why he is taking it is, as he stated, entirely irrelevant.

Then people seem to go running off making wild assumptions about what he "really means"...that he must have ulterior motives for joining such a class, or that his questions must mean he has some sort of racist agenda. Again, I see nothing in what he said here that justifies such a response.

My god (or lack thereof), people! This forum is supposed to be for education!!! Someone comes here, asking for help, requesting that others who may know more than him on the subject help him better understand what he is studying, and people use it as an opportunity to dump on him!

No, not everyone acted that way, and there are certainly some who made an effort to actually answer his questions, as opposed to the rest of the stupidity here.

Now, for myself, I'd recommend that if Dr. Facism wants to pursue this, and better understand the arguments on both sides of the debate, he might want to get the book "Not Out Of Africa", by Mary Lefkowitz, which addresses many of the false claims made by Afrocentric 'historians', and puts them in their proper historical perspective (for example, the claim that Aristotle stole his ideas from books written by Africans, and contained in the Alexandrian Library. She points out that by even the most liberal historical dating, Aristotle died before the library was even built). Oh, and I should mention here (for those skeptics who may think that this book is racist), that I learned about it when it was recommended by Michael Shermer in his book "Why People Believe Weird Things" -- that's the Michael Shermer who is founder of Skeptic magazine, and a featured speaker at this year's TAM. Having read excepts of it myself, I found it to be a remarkably balanced perspective, relying on verifiable historical texts (multiple texts where possible) to make its arguments.

 

[Hokulele]

Having just come to this thread, I'm appalled at the responses from some people here.

Dr. Fascist states that he is taking a class in which he believes some/much of the information may be wrong, but he does not personally know how to verify or disprove that information. He asks for peoples' suggestions in this regard -- he does not state anywhere that he is taking a specific stance on this, only that he does not understand it well enough to be able to respond reasonably.

Now, he could have had the same problem in any course. The question of why he is taking it is, as he stated, entirely irrelevant.

Then people seem to go running off making wild assumptions about what he "really means"...that he must have ulterior motives for joining such a class, or that his questions must mean he has some sort of racist agenda. Again, I see nothing in what he said here that justifies such a response.

Or, you could go and review Dr. Fascism's posting history before making rash assumptions as you have here.

ETA: Although I often post to threads on racism, there is a specific reason I am avoiding this one.

 

[Dr. Fascism]

Well, if I had to guess, this is your problem: you read things into text that aren't there. Point out the word "akin" in that sentence:

"Certainly, capitalism, racism, and sexism shape our relationships, but they are systems created by humans and they can be changed and rebuilt by humans."

I don't see it, and neither do you. You assumed it. Closed-mindedly.

Just because one can see problems with capitalism doesn't make him a Marxist or even a Socialist. It means only that he can see this system has flaws.

Oh, please. I'm sure he's just pointing out the flaws of capitalism just like he's pointing out that racism and sexism also have flaws. Wait a minute...

"It is important to repeat that any solution that evolves must be a collective and community-affirming solution, one that honors the moral demands of equality, mutual respect, and reciprocity. "

These quotes are coming from the area on "Black men/women" relationships; nonetheless, the whole "African worldview is collective, communitarian!", the references to Marx, and this stuff isn't painting a rosy picture. I think you're the closed-minded one, bub...

I'm not patronizing you for being something I was just two years ago, thanks. I was trying to help you, but I won't be making that mistake with you again. My Ed, you're pretty rude.

And then you patronize me with "oh, I was that way once" crap. Thanks. Gonna give me a pat on the head too?

"Seen" taught? The passivity of construction here is a great indicator that you expect learning to be something that's done to you, not something you have to do yourself.

Oh please.

I know what time of year it is. I know it's finals, thanks. What the fark does the fact that you came asking for "more info" after the class is done, have to do with what you were taught? And I NEVER ASSUMED YOU WERE AN IDIOT. I still don't.

"More info" because I suspect I was being fed crap? If didn't really go over a lot of the stuff until we used the book in the last month.

Up until your final post to me, I wasn't at all hostile to you. I was empathetic, having just gone through the same thing myself. And you are one very angry person--it's literally written all over your writing. I'd appreciate it if you'd back off me, bud, k?

Treating me like I'm an idiot that doesn't know how to think for myself isn't going to get you any points with me. The fact is, though, that I can't actually find many criticisms laid out, only very broad ones.

You found your way in. One assumes you can find your way out if we're so unpleasant.

I'm tempted, but maybe later, doing so now would only be giving you what you want

I can't tell you if what you're being taught is codswallop, largely because I wasn't in the class, didn't get the notes, and haven't read your text. What, you want me to pull answers out of my butt for you on something I haven't read?

How about, if you have no idea about the subject matter... don't respond? I don't need a crash course in not trusting everything a professor says, I'm well aware of how college works, thank you very much. What I wanted was essentially someone familiar with Afrocentric garbage to help me sort out nonsense or point to a resource to compare with material taught in the class

You, sir, have already made up your mind that your course was bollocks, and you didn't come here for more info at all, but for agreement. Now you're pissed because you haven't gotten it. But I really resent the way you've portrayed me; you're so wrong it isn't funny.

Ah, funny how once you get angry you say what you really feel. I wanted more information on the claims of Afrocentrism and criticisms to, y'know, educate myself (this is the James Randi EDUCATIONAL Foundation... right...?) and instead I have people like you clowning around pretending to contribute but instead just insulting my intelligence and telling me I'm wrong when I went through the ****ing class and sat through that garbage. Then, I show a passage lumping capitalism with sexism and racism and you try to find silly, ridiculous ways to justify the statement--and then claiming you have no idea about any of this, because you don't have the text...!

No, no I'm quite right about you...

Do you really think I'm going to appreciate stuff like "You're a black and white thinker! Don't worry, college will fix you right up!" when not only is it presumptuous, but I've heard that a thousand times.

And then telling me about how some professors are egotistical idiots. Again, telling someone rather obvious things, things they've already seen, as if you're imparting some great wisdom isn't going to make you friends. This isn't exactly my first college course, you know. It feels like you're telling me to dress up and brush my teeth for a job interview as if I couldn't possibly have figured that out for myself. Advice can be insulting if it's obvious, especially since I already came here expressing skepticism...

Ah, well. No good deed goes unpunished.

That's a mighty small violin...

 

[Dr. Fascism]

Having just come to this thread, I'm appalled at the responses from some people here.

Dr. Fascist states that he is taking a class in which he believes some/much of the information may be wrong, but he does not personally know how to verify or disprove that information. He asks for peoples' suggestions in this regard -- he does not state anywhere that he is taking a specific stance on this, only that he does not understand it well enough to be able to respond reasonably.

Now, he could have had the same problem in any course. The question of why he is taking it is, as he stated, entirely irrelevant.

Then people seem to go running off making wild assumptions about what he "really means"...that he must have ulterior motives for joining such a class, or that his questions must mean he has some sort of racist agenda. Again, I see nothing in what he said here that justifies such a response.

My god (or lack thereof), people! This forum is supposed to be for education!!! Someone comes here, asking for help, requesting that others who may know more than him on the subject help him better understand what he is studying, and people use it as an opportunity to dump on him!

No, not everyone acted that way, and there are certainly some who made an effort to actually answer his questions, as opposed to the rest of the stupidity here.

Now, for myself, I'd recommend that if Dr. Facism wants to pursue this, and better understand the arguments on both sides of the debate, he might want to get the book "Not Out Of Africa", by Mary Lefkowitz, which addresses many of the false claims made by Afrocentric 'historians', and puts them in their proper historical perspective (for example, the claim that Aristotle stole his ideas from books written by Africans, and contained in the Alexandrian Library. She points out that by even the most liberal historical dating, Aristotle died before the library was even built). Oh, and I should mention here (for those skeptics who may think that this book is racist), that I learned about it when it was recommended by Michael Shermer in his book "Why People Believe Weird Things" -- that's the Michael Shermer who is founder of Skeptic magazine, and a featured speaker at this year's TAM. Having read excepts of it myself, I found it to be a remarkably balanced perspective, relying on verifiable historical texts (multiple texts where possible) to make its arguments.

THANK YOU.

 

[CFLarsen]

Now, for myself, I'd recommend that if Dr. Facism wants to pursue this, and better understand the arguments on both sides of the debate, he might want to get the book "Not Out Of Africa", by Mary Lefkowitz, which addresses many of the false claims made by Afrocentric 'historians', and puts them in their proper historical perspective (for example, the claim that Aristotle stole his ideas from books written by Africans, and contained in the Alexandrian Library. She points out that by even the most liberal historical dating, Aristotle died before the library was even built). Oh, and I should mention here (for those skeptics who may think that this book is racist), that I learned about it when it was recommended by Michael Shermer in his book "Why People Believe Weird Things" -- that's the Michael Shermer who is founder of Skeptic magazine, and a featured speaker at this year's TAM. Having read excepts of it myself, I found it to be a remarkably balanced perspective, relying on verifiable historical texts (multiple texts where possible) to make its arguments.

I strongly recommend Mary Lefkovitz' Not Out of Africa. Well researched, well written.

Afrocentrism is nothing but racist pseudo-history.

 

[Dr. Fascism]

Or, you could go and review Dr. Fascism's posting history before making rash assumptions as you have here.

ETA: Although I often post to threads on racism, there is a specific reason I am avoiding this one.

That thread has almost nothing to do with this one. I've been meaning to make this thread here for a long time; the other one was born out of something completely irrelevant.

Or do you mean I get angry? Obviously I do. Compare Wolfman's post with the rest, if he can get it, why can't the rest? Of course I'm going to be angry if people are suddenly jumping on me the way they have!

Wolfman, thanks once again. Seriously, no sarcasm, you get it perfectly. You're spot-on...

 

[Dr. Fascism]

Oh, another thing to clarify:

they use the term "afrocentrism" throughout the book, but they don't really bring up a lot of this pseudohistory, which is part of my confusion--same term, different meaning? Or do they not spring the insane stuff on you until you get deeper in, like Scientology?

The most I've seen is references to Ma'at, mystery religions, Egypt, etc. My instructor has also adopted a... new name, one of obvious Egyptian influence. Yeah, like Malcolm X, in a sense...

I can't really go through the whole book obviously, but it certainly seems to be strongly Black Nationalist-separatist-influenced nonsense (and no surprise, Karenga wrote it!) with an implicit pseudo-scientific concept of race.

Slingblade and others might think I'm reading too much into some stuff, but I'm taking into account everything I've seen from the classes' intructor, everything I know about the author, Karenga, the whole "African/European Worldviews" stuff (which I suspect is based on nonsense scholarship motivated by certain political, social, and racial ideologies).

You want a sample, here's one... the instructor basically said that Hillary Clinton is the essence of the "European worldview". You can interpret that how you want.

 

[Wolfman]

Or, you could go and review Dr. Fascism's posting history before making rash assumptions as you have here.

ETA: Although I often post to threads on racism, there is a specific reason I am avoiding this one.

I'm aware of Dr. Fascism's history. And do not agree with some of the views he expresses.

However, I disagree fundamentally with attacks that are based more on personal dislike, and on carrying over arguments and prejudices from other discussions. Where he says things that we actually disagree with, then we should express our disagreement, and do so vocally.

So tell me -- where do you disagree with a request to discuss where we can find more accurate information regarding black history, especially as it relates to Afrocentric studies? I provided a response that allows for further, intelligent, reasonable discussion of the question -- all that pretty much everyone else has done is engage in personal attacks that accomplish nothing whatsoever.

May I suggest that, besides Dr. Fascism, there will be others reading this thread who may have similar questions. They may be blacks, who've been taught these things as 'fact'; they may be whites, who are trying to understand it, and to put Afrocentric claims into a more accurate historical context.

People who click on this thread are doing so because, presumably, they are interested in a discussion about Afrocentrism.

What has anyone here done to actually engage in or expand upon an intelligent, reasonable discussion of that issue? Pretty much nothing. Instead, if people click on the thread, they just get another batch of petty bickering and personal attacks between Dr. F, and those who dislike him.

Let me ask -- if people had responded by simply answering the question, and pointing out resources that discuss Afrocentrism in a systematic, scientific manner, what would the harm have been? None. What would the benefit have been? Well, anyone reading the thread would have been informed, and hopefully found new information. And, if after presenting that information, Dr. Fascism used it to promote ideas or beliefs with which we disagreed, we could do so based on the facts of his statements, not based simply on "we don't like you, regardless of what you say."

I believe firmly that those who claim to be 'superior' in terms of their beliefs likewise have a responsibility to be 'superior' in terms of how they treat and respond to others. By that standard, people in this thread have failed miserably. It could have been an interesting, insightful, intelligent, and informative thread about an issue that is an important issue.

There are people in these forums who dislike me. That's fine, I don't come here to coddle people, or try to make everyone like me. But if someone who dislikes me comes into a thread that I've started, and responds based purely on their dislike of me, rather than based on what I've actually said, it pisses me off. And it likewise pisses me off when people do the same thing to others.