The Internet is Sooo Yesterday

INRM said:
Yeah, to whoever said it -- I'd have to agree: Let's hope we don't have a Skynet/Terminator scenario on our hands!

But what I worry about is that it could be used to link up loads of cameras (actually we can already do that but it could be easier) with an A.I. program, and facial recognition software (much like DARPA's "Combat Zones that See" concept that will end up used for domestic surveillance) could place whole cities under 24-hr surveillance (and with ground penetrating style radar could even see through the walls in our houses and homes)
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You don't need a new network for that.
 
shadron said:
It matches the computing problems at the Hadron Collider. Once it gets going, it will generate 15 petabytes of data per year constantly, 24/7/365. That's 475 GB / sec.
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Quibble: not 365 days a year. Electricity is too expensive in winter, and it will need maintenance and upgrades. Plus they may also want to accelerate lead ions for ALICE, now and then.
 
SezMe said:
The Grid is the latest thing. It's hard to imagine where such technology could lead. I think it's exciting.
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It is cool, but also mentions:
Although the grid itself is unlikely to be directly available to domestic internet users, many telecoms providers and businesses are already introducing its pioneering technologies.
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So while the common user will not get these speeds, a couple applications would be bandwidth-on-demand (as the article mentions, the ability to pay for more speed per download), and large information cloud movement (which Google and the like might find handy).

But, anyone using this will pay a price for it, so it will likely not rush on the scene and replace our current internet experiences.
 
six7s said:
Not quite... as the simplest (only?) ways to make an individual computer run faster is to modify:
  • the hardware; CPU (multi-threading etc) and memory (RAM, cache, etc) and/or
  • the software it uses
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It'll make comps run faster if there is a move towards cloud computing, that is, the storage isn't local and is accessed via the Grid. This in a long run, and yeah, it would require hardware modification. Nowadays local hard drives are quite a performance bottleneck imo. Maybe these new solid state drives bring a temporary fix.
 
Switching to Quantum computers would really speed things up.

Right about now, the fastest computer might take about 7,000 trillion years to find the two prime numbers that make up a 300-digit prime product. But a quantum computer, now that could do the same sum in a few days. How cool is that?
 
joyrex said:
It'll make comps run faster if there is a move towards cloud computing
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:confused:

Please excuse (and, if possible, alleviate) my ignorance...

I can see how TheGrid and/or 'cloud computing' could facilitate individual people getting more done in less time... but... individual computers??? How????


joyrex said:
Nowadays local hard drives are quite a performance bottleneck imo.
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The way I see things, the bottleneck is processing speeds, which are limited by (in descending order, I think) CPUs on-board cache memory sizes, then RAM and then the hard-drive

joyrex said:
Maybe these new solid state drives bring a temporary fix.
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Which "new solid state drives"?
 
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six7s said:
:confused:

Please excuse (and, if possible, alleviate) my ignorance...

I can see how TheGrid and/or 'cloud computing' could facilitate individual people getting more done in less time... but... individual computers??? How????

The way I see things, the bottleneck is processing speeds, which are limited by (in descending order, I think) CPUs on-board cache memory sizes, then RAM and then the hard-drive
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The bottleneck in most applications is not in processing speeds, but in access speeds. On-board cache is superfast (nanoseconds), but can't hold much information, Hard dives hold a lot, but need time to be accessed (miliseconds), and the internet has huge amounts of information, which can only be accessed with excruciating slowness (plain, old, unmodified seconds).

The grid (which is really just the internet, minus the old legacy hardware) makes the inter-network much more like direct-access memory, speed-wise.

Not to be confused with "Grid Computing", which harnesses multiple, independent computers to increase processing speed. Although, the two are complimentary, and together can really crunch some impressive data.

Which "new solid state drives"?
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Solid state drives like these could cut the access time to microseconds, but currently don't store as much, and cost one arm and one leg (plus tax where applicable).
 
GodMark2 said:
The bottleneck in most applications is not in processing speeds, but in access speeds. On-board cache is superfast...
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I have a hunch that you're splitting a hair that is so super-fine that it's invisible... To do any processing, a CPU needs data... in and out

One analogy that I like is the location of ingredients in a kitchen...

On-board cache is like one of those tiny herb and spice racks... within easy (pretty much instantaneous) reach of the chef. Because it's so very, very small, a galley slave needs to be both very clever and super diligent when accommodating/anticipating the demands of the chef

RAM is much, much bigger... but also much, MUCH further away... sorta like a pantry/larder that is (ideally) stocked with big boxes full of the sort of ingredients that have been used lately... the sorta stuff that will probably be used again soon... But... it's down in the hold, so going to-and-fro is a bit of a drag for the galley slave, who has a limp

The hard drive is immense, like a warehouse full of every ingredient ever used but... it's 20,000 leagues across the sea... and the Nautilus is in dry-dock... so the galley-slave has to swim for it

GodMark2 said:
The grid (which is really just the internet, minus the old legacy hardware) makes the inter-network much more like direct-access memory, speed-wise
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I very much doubt it (unless your definition of "much more like" is as vague as a very vague thing :p), simply because - no matter how quickly the data comes in to port - there's still only so much room on the kitchen bench

GodMark2 said:
Solid state drives like these could cut the access time to microseconds, but currently don't store as much, and cost one arm and one leg (plus tax where applicable).
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Thanks for the link... but... :boggled:

Although there has been significant progress in terms of capacity, they're not exactly 'new' (hence some of my confusion)... and, although data-transfer rates are much faster than from hard-drives, it occurs to me that this is still data-transfer, to the on-board cache...

So how will SSDs broaden the bottleneck? :confused:
 
Slight derail, but isn't The Grid what Pete Townshend called (a version of) the Internet back in the early '70s on the (aborted) Lifehouse album?

Just goes to show, there's nothing new under the Sun :rolleyes:
 
Excellent call! On the Who's Next version, the Grid was what the Lifesuits plugged into, and had sleeping gas and food and sex and you could live out thousands of lifetimes plugged in to it. I forgot all about that.

You rock.
 
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six7s said:
I have a hunch that you're splitting a hair that is so super-fine that it's invisible... To do any processing, a CPU needs data... in and out

One analogy that I like is the location of ingredients in a kitchen...

On-board cache is like one of those tiny herb and spice racks... within easy (pretty much instantaneous) reach of the chef. Because it's so very, very small, a galley slave needs to be both very clever and super diligent when accommodating/anticipating the demands of the chef

RAM is much, much bigger... but also much, MUCH further away... sorta like a pantry/larder that is (ideally) stocked with big boxes full of the sort of ingredients that have been used lately... the sorta stuff that will probably be used again soon... But... it's down in the hold, so going to-and-fro is a bit of a drag for the galley slave, who has a limp

The hard drive is immense, like a warehouse full of every ingredient ever used but... it's 20,000 leagues across the sea... and the Nautilus is in dry-dock... so the galley-slave has to swim for it

I very much doubt it (unless your definition of "much more like" is as vague as a very vague thing :p), simply because - no matter how quickly the data comes in to port - there's still only so much room on the kitchen bench

Thanks for the link... but... :boggled:

Although there has been significant progress in terms of capacity, they're not exactly 'new' (hence some of my confusion)... and, although data-transfer rates are much faster than from hard-drives, it occurs to me that this is still data-transfer, to the on-board cache...

So how will SSDs broaden the bottleneck? :confused:
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The kitchen analogy is a good one, though I prefer to think of the cache as the counter top in the kitchen, because you can store enough there to make a simple omelet, but not enough for a full holiday dinner.

So imagine you need to cook a meal that's HUGE. It requires even more room for it' raw ingredients than you have in the larder. Old-style hard drives would have your galley slave rowing to shore constantly to get the piece you need next, and taking things back when you're done. No matter how fast the cook was (processing speed) you'd still be waiting on the galley slave to get you what you needed (access speed).

To increase your 'speed at making the meal', you could increase the speed the cook (processor) works at, but that would just have him standing around waiting for that galley boy to get back with new ingredients.

You could increase the size of the kitchen counter (cache), but as the cook's really waiting for the galley slave to get back from shore, that size doesn't matter much.

You could increase the larder's size (RAM). The galley slave could get there and back much faster than shore, but that's a bit expensive, and there'd still be a meal down the road that was still too large to fit.

Or you substitute an SSD for the old hard drive. This is like having a massive cargo ship docked alongside your vessel. That galley slave now can get to all those ingredients almost as fast as he can the larder.

Connecting to The Grid is like pulling your ship into dock, so the galley slave can access anything he's looking for, much faster than having to row to shore, but still not quite as fast as going to the larder.

Currently, the bottleneck *is* the transfer/access speeds to the hard drive. It doesn't matter how much room is on the counter, the cook is having a cigarette because he used it all up long before the slave rows back from shore. Not having to row to shore keeps the counter full more often, the cook gets fewer cigarette brakes, and the meal gets done much faster.
 
Or you could do what people do in real life when they need a huge amount of food prepared all at once.
 
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