• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Most atheists do not know what science says about our origins

Status
Not open for further replies.
Well if you believe in the Big Bang, then there would have to be enough energy in existence "before" the Big Bang to create the 10 billion trillion stars that are estimated to be in our universe. The question then becomes where the heck did that mind boggling amount of energy come from?

Interesting question, and I note the attempted argument from incredulity, but not appropriate for this thread.

Now, would you be so kind as to withdraw your assertion in the OP, and explain exactly why you think anyone (atheist or not) would change their mind about evolution depending on whether there is a single ancestral organism or not?
 
Well if you believe in the Big Bang, then there would have to be enough energy in existence "before" the Big Bang to create the 10 billion trillion stars that are estimated to be in our universe. The question then becomes where the heck did that mind boggling amount of energy come from?

It’s work in progress.

It’s difficult and time consuming, thus it requires honesty and patience.

Most of all, it requires courage to face problems without resorting to intellectual short cuts.


In short: we don't know yet; we are not sure if that's even the most relevant question to ask.
 
Last edited:
dogma: something held as an established opinion
1 a: something held as an established opinion; especially : a definite authoritative tenet

b: a code of such tenets <pedagogical dogma>

c: a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds

2: a doctrine or body of doctrines concerning faith or morals formally stated and authoritatively proclaimed by a church

Now like I said before you have no idea what that word means. We have proofs, not doctrines, not tenets (an established fundamental belief, especially one relating to religion or politics), not authoritative without adequate grounds. We have many proofs, you are the one that is being Dogmatic.

And once again, you have given no alternative, so now I have to assume you are an IDer, nothing else you have said has pointed to anything else.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Last edited:
Damn, that was going to be my response. :D

You and I apparently have a memory for mammaries.

In my case it's more like a memory for quotes of silly movies I love. :)

I've given up responding to the trolls on this thread.

I can't. Not because it's not obvious to me, but because:

This message is hidden because JEROME DA GNOME is on your ignore list.

Not too long ago I bragged about not making use of the ignore feature, but there is only so much you can take. JDG made me change my mind two days ago. After three years of emptiness, my list now features one entry.
 
Now like I said before you have no idea what that word means. We have proofs, not doctrines, not tenets (an established fundamental belief, especially one relating to religion or politics), not authoritative without adequate grounds. We have many proofs, you are the one that is being Dogmatic.

And once again, you have given no alternative, so now I have to assume you are an IDer, nothing else you have said has pointed to anything else.

Paul

:) :) :)


This is incredible! You are choosing for me what definition of a word I used despite my giving the definition of said word, in fact the first dictionary definition of said word!

:boggled:
 
What? Please to explain? What "possible explanation"? God did it ISN'T an explanation as it tells us absolutely nothing. I can say leprachauns did it or fairies did it or the flying spagheti monster did it but that tells us nothing.

It's not an explantion because it DOESN'T explain anything.

Your first option was "Life could have always existed." You are arguing over your second possibility as to the source of the initiation of life.
 
Well if you believe in the Big Bang, then there would have to be enough energy in existence "before" the Big Bang to create the 10 billion trillion stars that are estimated to be in our universe. The question then becomes where the heck did that mind boggling amount of energy come from?

"The Big Bang Didit"

:rolleyes:
 
That's somewhat broader a definition than is normally given.

Webster

I find it fascinating that words are defined by the reader despite the author expressly stating that they are using the first definition in the dictionary.



Being the loyal opposition is all well and good, but endlessly nitpicking details which have already been explained and handwaving away evidence and theoriues that point to one conclusion without providing evidence or even stating an alternative that accounts for the evidence will get you nowhere, and only result in raised blood pressure.

Please tell my what definition of "theory" you are using in the above thought.
 
Well if you believe in the Big Bang, then there would have to be enough energy in existence "before" the Big Bang to create the 10 billion trillion stars that are estimated to be in our universe. The question then becomes where the heck did that mind boggling amount of energy come from?

"The Big Bang Didit"

:rolleyes:
Pay attention boys, I'm going to say this again, slowly this time.

The net mass-energy of the Universe is zero.

No need for any energy "before" the Big Bang.

That isn't to say that there wasn't anything there "before", just that we can't know if there was, and there isn't any need for anything to have been there.
 
I’m leaning towards that interpretation too. One can basically question anything using such a debate tactic, without actually having anything meaningful to say about the subject at hands (like an alternative explanation based on evidence that would fit the data better). :boxedin:


Yet, if the question I ask can not be answered logically than maybe the believers should be questioning their beliefs. Instead many name-call and advertise that they are not reading the questions.
 
Pay attention boys, I'm going to say this again, slowly this time.

The net mass-energy of the Universe is zero.

No need for any energy "before" the Big Bang.

That isn't to say that there wasn't anything there "before", just that we can't know if there was, and there isn't any need for anything to have been there.

So, the Big Bang created matter without having energy from which to create matter?
 
This is incredible! You are choosing for me what definition of a word I used despite my giving the definition of said word, in fact the first dictionary definition of said word!

:boggled:
So what is your so-called guess to how the universe begin with all the evidence shown.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Webster

I find it fascinating that words are defined by the reader despite the author expressly stating that they are using the first definition in the dictionary.


From your source:

1 a: something held as an established opinion; especially : a definite authoritative tenet b: a code of such tenets <pedagogical dogma> c: a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds
2: a doctrine or body of doctrines concerning faith or morals formally stated and authoritatively proclaimed by a church​


The definition you posted (as you said, first one in):

dogma: something held as an established opinion


Like I said, it's a rather broad definition. It still works, but using the broad interpretation allows you to apply "dogma" willy-nilly to whatever established idea you feel like applying it to.
However, in the case of evolution or the big bang, these are not established opinions. The theories are held as valid by scientists not because of any establishment or authoritativeness, but rather because they best explain the observed evidence. Scientists take the facts they observe, ad from that extract their theories. They then test their theories repeatedly, and refine or change when necessary.
This is why people are objecting to your use of the term. "Dogma" has certain implications, among them rigidity and close-mindedness. Science does not fall under this category. Science permits questions and change, provided there is evidence upon which the questions are based. To date, this is what the creationist movement lacks, and why they are reduced to nipping at the fringes and whining.

You sit there and you argue and you question, but you never get around to the important point of explaining how the theories are wrong (and scientists would love to hear about it, if you had a valid point of contention) or providing an alternative that explains everything observed, past tests and makes predictions that can be used in future tests.
Instead, you content yourself with "I don't think so" and wonder why the people here tear into your arguments when you attempt to use that as a basis for challenging well evidenced, well tested, and well studied scientific theories.
You are more than free not to think so, but don't try to berate others because they think so when you have nothing to support your claims, and continually hand-wave away all the evidence that is shown to you which supports the ideas you refuse to accept. It just makes you appear trollish.
I dunno about troll myself, I just picture you as the loyal opposition who sometimes gets carried away.



Please tell my what definition of "theory" you are using in the above thought.


That'd be the scientific one, as we're discussing scientific theories.
 
Last edited:
That isn't to say that there wasn't anything there "before", just that we can't know if there was, and there isn't any need for anything to have been there.

This is such an important point for this conversation (if it could be said that this conversation has important points at all.)


Jerome, and possibly others, seem hung up on whether or not the Big Bang was the beginning of the universe. It seems important to some to worry about the whole idea of beginning.

The fact is that we cannot say whether the Big Bang was the "beginning" of anything in particular. It was, however, the earliest event that we can detect through observation. Whatever existed before, if anything existed, left no evidence.

We know that the Big Bang happened. Well, technically we don't know that, even. We know that the universe as it appears today is completely consistent with the Big Bang, and is not consistent with any other theory that has been presented. What we do not know, and science can never tell us, is whether the universe has a beginning.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom