Mediums protest against consumer protection

I hear echoes of the Philadelphia lawsuit.:rolleyes:

I'm a mature adult and I've chosen to take an interest in Spiritualism and come to the informed conclusion that there is something in it. Whether you agree with my conclusion or not is beside the point. If someone is making life difficult for mediums in any way then I'm afraid it is religious persecution.

If the Skepsters want proof then let the Skepsters look for proof, but they have no right to impose their values on other people. (I'm reminded of Randi's protest that his tax dollars were being used to fund hands-on healing courses for nurses. Well he'd have every right to protest... so long as it is only Skepsters who pay income tax!:D)

I don't think anyone has a right to dicate how I spend money that I myself have earned. When I visit a psychic event I don't send James Randi of Chris French the bill!
 
Porterboy said:
I hear echoes of the Philadelphia lawsuit.:rolleyes:

I'm a mature adult and I've chosen to take an interest in Spiritualism and come to the informed conclusion that there is something in it. Whether you agree with my conclusion or not is beside the point. If someone is making life difficult for mediums in any way then I'm afraid it is religious persecution.

If the Skepsters want proof then let the Skepsters look for proof, but they have no right to impose their values on other people. (I'm reminded of Randi's protest that his tax dollars were being used to fund hands-on healing courses for nurses. Well he'd have every right to protest... so long as it is only Skepsters who pay income tax!:D)

I don't think anyone has a right to dicate how I spend money that I myself have earned. When I visit a psychic event I don't send James Randi of Chris French the bill!
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What makes you think there is "something" in it"? What is that "something"?
 
Skepsters would be the first to protest (rightly) if a faith-based school or university banned books on science. Of course the answer will be: "The difference is that science can prove what it does, Spiritualism can't." Well, I'm afraid that a mature, informed adult choosing to believe in something irrationally, however stupid and repulsive you find it, is a human right. It's a right I intend to stand up for!:cool::cool:
 
CFLarsen said:
What makes you think there is "something" in it"? What is that "something"?
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Why I believe there's something in it is not relevent to the subject in hand (I'll happily go through that with you later on another thread:)). The subject in hand is: Do I have a right to decide there's something in it by my own irrational values? My answer is a resounding "yes".
 
Porterboy said:
Why I believe there's something in it is not relevent to the subject in hand (I'll happily go through that with you later on another thread:)). The subject in hand is: Do I have a right to decide there's something in it by my own irrational values? My answer is a resounding "yes".
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No. The subject is should people really think it's appropriate to protest a law that only exists to ensure they can deliver what they claim.

If these people could do what they claim, then there would be no problem. Many of them admit there are frauds in the new-age business area, and yet will not take appropriate steps to help weed them out. Funny that.
 
Porterboy said:
I hear echoes of the Philadelphia lawsuit.:rolleyes:

I'm a mature adult and I've chosen to take an interest in Spiritualism and come to the informed conclusion that there is something in it. Whether you agree with my conclusion or not is beside the point. If someone is making life difficult for mediums in any way then I'm afraid it is religious persecution.
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and I'm a Jehovah's Burglar, the police persecute me for my religion.

This, as has been repeatedly explained, is about regulating the operation of businesses, a religion is not a business not is business a religion. Spiritualists operating as a religion can claim what they like, psychics selling a product OTOH, are regulated in the same way as double glazing salesmen.

Care to explain why it should be any different?
 
Porterboy said:
Why I believe there's something in it is not relevent to the subject in hand (I'll happily go through that with you later on another thread:)).
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I've opened a new thread for that.

Porterboy said:
The subject in hand is: Do I have a right to decide there's something in it by my own irrational values? My answer is a resounding "yes".
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Wait a second. You just said that you believe there is something to it (whatever that is). And now, you say it is due to your irrational values?

Which is it? Do you oppose this law because you think there is something to spiritualism, or is it a matter of letting people do whatever they want, regardless of how irrational it is?
 
Porterboy said:
I'm a mature adult and I've chosen to take an interest in Spiritualism and come to the informed conclusion that there is something in it.
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Then you are not one who is going to sue a medium because of bad advice.
If someone is making life difficult for mediums in any way then I'm afraid it is religious persecution.
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Mediums sell products (called readings). I don´t think that suing mediums for selling bad products is religious persecution. If the product they are selling is okay they have nothing to fear.
I don't think anyone has a right to dicate how I spend money that I myself have earned.
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Neither do I, but that is not what the new law is about.
 
Hi

I don't mean to tell you how to spend your money, but you should buy and read a book on a technique called, "Cold Reading," before you spend too much on other psychic stuff.

On the other hand - do go buy a few Singing Bowls. They're very cool all on their own, and the psychic community will be impressed. If you're going to buy into this stuff, you might as well come out of it with something really cool.
 
Porterboy, what's important to understand is that this legislation is to protect consumers, regardless of the product or service being sold.

All that means is that everyone now has to prove they can deliver what they're charging for, including spiritualists, or change the way they sell it. Not sure why anyone would object to that. If you want to run a business, you have to be accountable, and that's particularly important if your customers tend to be vulnerable individuals. Every other market sector went through this exact same process and are restricted in what they can and cannot claim.
 
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No, I just love the idea of a free society, that allows everyone and anyone to make any outrageous claim they like for what they are selling. It is only freedom of speech after all. And caveat emptor is the name of the game. How can you prosper if businessmen are constrained by all sorts of petty regulations?
[/sarcasm]

Rolfe.
 
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Do I have a right to decide there's something in it by my own irrational values? My answer is a resounding "yes".
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As I see it (no, I'm not psychic), you'll retain that right. People such as yourself, who truly believe, won't be prosecuting failures. The spiritualists will presumably only face prosecution when they fail to deliver to the extent their client no longer believes. And why shouldn't they be prosecuted if they fail to deliver? At the very least they should be made to give a refund.

You seem to be arguing the case for legally fleecing the gullible. If I claim to believe I can fly a plane, should I be allowed to sell tickets despite the fact I'll never provide a single flight? What should it take to have that belief recognised as a religion such that it would enjoy isolation from law?

What are you doing next weekend - wanna go for a flight? I'm a whiz-bang pilot and if you don't believe me, just ask me and I'll confirm it :)
 
Porterboy said:
....If someone is making life difficult for mediums in any way then I'm afraid it is religious persecution.
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Just as a secularist is not opposed to people practicing religion, this law is not trying to persecute anyone for their beliefs.

My suspicion as to why the mediums are upset is because they have nice little (undeclared) income streams for private readings and services away from the spiritualist religion side of things. It is this that could be challenged, as opposed to the small amount they get for standing in front of a bunch of old women at a spiritualist church.

The spiritualist church is where they do their marketing. The followup priavate services is where they coin it in.
 
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Porterboy said:
Skepsters would be the first to protest (rightly) if a faith-based school or university banned books on science. Of course the answer will be: "The difference is that science can prove what it does, Spiritualism can't." Well, I'm afraid that a mature, informed adult choosing to believe in something irrationally, however stupid and repulsive you find it, is a human right. It's a right I intend to stand up for!:cool::cool:
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People who stand up for things make good targets when the police come by.
Noithing cool in stooging for charlatans and rip-off artists. People are free to believe in them and law should(now is) be free to arrest, try and imprison them for their flummery.
 
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Removed content - browser hadn't opened full page, my point has already been made by others (and much betterer than I could).
 
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If someone's belief system means they buy, for example, a handkerchief that's been individually blessed by a TV pastor for an inflated price, then fine.

But if it later turns out that it wasn't individually blessed, then the people who brought it should be able to demand their money back, at the very least. I don't see how them asking for some kind of consumer protection would be considered religious persecution even though, in this case, they're making things difficult for a preacher.
 
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