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Lord Language Resurrection.

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Nationalcosmopolitan said:
But all depend from God!
HE oppose the dream of Judaism elite to make the language of Talmud the language of Jewish people had resurrected for them the Holy Language and not only for them, but for all monotheistic religious God believers from all nationals.
National – Hebrew Resurrected Holy languages bilingual Global World will very soon exist !
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Wow, that almost comes close to competing with these:

http://www.movietome.com/users/GabuEx/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=m-100-25286976
 
NC, what's your national language? (I'm just curious)

For what it's worth, I may be misunderstanding you because I don't understand your English. If I'm understanding you, though, you're making a lot of assumptions or statements that, well...as others have pointed out, this is a skeptics' forum, and the people here (for the most parts) are not going to accept your assumptions.

It seems to me that you are asserting that:

1) There is a God. (Note: many people on this forum reject this very idea.)
2) That there is ONE God, as revealed in the three books of Abrahamic-type monotheism (that is, the Bible, the Qu'ran, and the Torah)
3) That those three books were, in fact, revealed by God (as opposed to, say, edited collections of writings selected by human beings for specific religious and political reasons)

It's important that you understand that most of the people on this Forum don't accept these assertions as true.

You also make some statements that even members of those religions might question: such as, that Jesus hated anything (much less a language).

If I'm not misunderstanding you (again, I don't understand your English), I think that what you're trying to say is that God wants believers in the followers of those three books (Judaism, Islam, and Christianity, which I will from now on refer to as "JIC" for simplicity's sake*) to have a "hip pocket" auxiliary language, a shared language that would not replace national languages such as English, Arabic, French, etc, but that would be used for cross-cultural commerce and interchange. And I think you are saying that God wants this language to be Hebrew.

I do not understand your reasoning for why you think that God wants this. You've mentioned some stuff, and it makes absolutely no sense to me. I suspect that you are "data mining" (that is, I think that you are going through what you think is history and are picking and choosing those events and things that support your hypothesis, rather than coming to a conclusion based on the historical information itself. As has been pointed out, your knowledge of history is not very complete, which -- I think -- supports my data-mining hypothesis regarding your hypothesis).

If I'm correct in understanding what you're stating, though (that God wants Hebrew to be the JIC universal auxiliary language), I'm telling you (and God, I guess) right now that it's not going to work.

Islamic people, for one, believe very profoundly that the Qu'ran was revealed to Mohammed by the Archangel Gabriel in Arabic and that the only true way to understand the Qu'ran (and, thus, to understand God's will) is to learn and read the Qu'ran in Arabic. Given that, and the general Middle Eastern hatred towards Israel and the Jews, I think that the likelihood that Islamic people are going to accept that God wants them to learn Hebrew as the universal JIC auxiliary language, is about the same as the likelihood that I might place an ice cube on my extremely hot grill and have the grill freeze solid.^ Sure, it's theoretically possible, but you'll win all 50 United States' state lotteries 10 times in a row, each, before it happens.

As I stated before, that's the problem with trying to espouse any national language as the universal auxiliary language: every single one of them comes with cultural, ideological, and historical baggage that will be a problem for other people. This is true even in the case of a language that's not intended to be a global language, but rather a universal auxiliary language for JICs (which I think is what you're saying).

Now, having said all that, I do want to say that I agree with something that you stated: you postulated that if every JIC learned Hebrew as a universal language and started using it for commerce, then atheists and other non-JICs would end up learning it (because they'd have to, if they wanted to engage in commerce with JICs). That's absolutely true. That's why (bad) English is the "universal" language now -- because it is the primary language of the Internet (though that will probably change as the technology catches up with the ability to use & parse other languages) and the primary language of Really Big Worldwide Business. But the problem is that the world's JICs are simply not going to just start learning Hebrew because you think that God wants them to. Sorry to rain on your parade, but your average JIC is not going to accept your argument, in part because it's very hard to understand and in larger part because you've data-mined your "proof" to support your hypothesis (and they'll just data-mine their understanding of history and God's will to support whatever it is they believe is the right thing to do).

-- Jackalgirl

*and because I am in the USN.**

**United States Navy. WWWDWA?***

***What Would We Do Without Acronyms?

^ The first step, of course, would be to get any of those Big Three (bearing in mind that all three of them have fractured into sub-sects that are often in passionate conflict with one another about their interpretation of their religion) to actually BELIEVE that either of the other two actually constitutes a valid relationship with God in the first place. (When you start, you might as well start with the Pope, who has stated that Catholicism is the one and only True Church.)
 
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six7s said:
Most influent (anthropocentric) world events:
  1. Evolution of opposable thumbs and binocular vision (hunting)
  2. Harnessing of fire (cooking)
  3. Domestication of the horse (transport)
  4. Harvesting hay (settlement of colder climates)
  5. Fermentation (increased fertility in ugly people)
  6. The printing press (dissemination of cocktail recipes)
  7. Licensed Restaurants (a blend of the above)
  8. Teh Interwebs (a refuge for those barred from the above)

Maybe that list is a bit skewed... but it makes a hell of a lot more sense than a "trivial God imperative message to HIS PEOPLE"
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six7s do you perchance feel the influence of DNA in your writing? ;-)

Douglas Noël Adams
 
1) There is a God. (Note: many people on this forum reject this very idea.)
2) That there is ONE God, as revealed in the three books of Abrahamic-type monotheism (that is, the Bible, the Qu'ran, and the Torah)
3) That those three books were, in fact, revealed by God (as opposed to, say, edited collections of writings selected by human beings for specific religious and political reasons)

It's important that you understand that most of the people on this Forum don't accept these assertions as true.
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But ½ or even 2/3 of world population does accept these assertions as true.

You also make some statements that even members of those religions might question: such as, that Jesus hated anything (much less a language).
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I hope that you really had read the New Testament.

If I'm not misunderstanding you (again, I don't understand your English), I think that what you're trying to say is that God wants believers in the followers of those three books (Judaism, Islam, and Christianity, which I will from now on refer to as "JIC" for simplicity's sake*) to have a "hip pocket" auxiliary language, a shared language that would not replace national languages such as English, Arabic, French, etc, but that would be used for cross-cultural commerce and interchange. And I think you are saying that God wants this language to be Hebrew.
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It is the matter of fact that Torah is a Holy book for Jews, Christians and Muslims.
One can read New Testament and Koran to become absolutely sure about this.
So the Holy Resurrected Language of Holy Book for all three world religious believers is there Holy Language actually for today.
I do not understand your reasoning for why you think that God wants this. You've mentioned some stuff, and it makes absolutely no sense to me. I suspect that you are "data mining" (that is, I think that you are going through what you think is history and are picking and choosing those events and things that support your hypothesis, rather than coming to a conclusion based on the historical information itself. As has been pointed out, your knowledge of history is not very complete, which -- I think -- supports my data-mining hypothesis regarding your hypothesis).
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There is no one person in the word who knows history completely and not subjectively.

If I'm correct in understanding what you're stating, though (that God wants Hebrew to be the JIC universal auxiliary language), I'm telling you (and God, I guess) right now that it's not going to work.
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Not because it is the language of Jewish People in today’s Israel, but because it is Resurrected Holy Language according there religious Holy Books.

Islamic people, for one, believe very profoundly that the Qu'ran was revealed to Mohammed by the Archangel Gabriel in Arabic and that the only true way to understand the Qu'ran (and, thus, to understand God's will) is to learn and read the Qu'ran in Arabic.
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Not because it is the language of Jewish People in today’s Israel, but because it is Resurrected Holy Language according there religious Holy Books.
Read Koran please and it will be absolutely clear to you, that Old Testament and New Testament for Muslims are Holy Books the same level as Koran.
But practically today is forbidden to Muslims to read Torah and New Testament.

Now, having said all that, I do want to say that I agree with something that you stated: you postulated that if every JIC learned Hebrew as a universal language and started using it for commerce, then atheists and other non-JICs would end up learning it (because they'd have to, if they wanted to engage in commerce with JICs). That's absolutely true. That's why (bad) English is the "universal" language now -- because it is the primary language of the Internet (though that will probably change as the technology catches up with the ability to use & parse other languages) and the primary language of Really Big Worldwide Business. But the problem is that the world's JICs are simply not going to just start learning Hebrew because you think that God wants them to. Sorry to rain on your parade, but your average JIC is not going to accept your argument, in part because it's very hard to understand and in larger part because you've data-mined your "proof" to support your hypothesis (and they'll just data-mine their understanding of history and God's will to support whatever it is they believe is the right thing to do).
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We are evidence of two successful models of globalization.
One is USA and other is UE.
USA – the Global State, were different nationals become in a second generation English natively speaking monolinguals, that had forgotten their national language and culture.
Canada and Australia just the same once.
UE – the first bilingual and even three lingual global state were every UE citizens knows English, the language of one of 25 EU states and the language of his current residency.
It is much more advance model that the first one.
My model is the third one really global model, because it use the Holy Resurrected Language as common, that makes all other national languages in a really equal status.
To every man his national language will be absolutely equal and symmetrically used as his Holy Resurrected Language.
 
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Originally Posted by Nationalcosmopolitan
But all depend from God!
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HE oppose the dream of Judaism elite...
@ Nationalcosmopolitan: Please Note

This is not www.forums.woo.com

This forum is a "place to discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly and lively way"
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Excuse me if I had outraged you with something.
May be you are right.
May be six millions Jews that use Hebrew restored by Ben Yehuda are in wrong whey.
If the state language of today’s Israel is not the Holy Resurrected Language of Torah, as why we had killed our Yiddish, Ladino and many other brilliant Jew’s dialects?
May be Aramaic language of Jesus and Talmud much more Jew’s language than today’s Hebrew Resurrected of Israel State?
 
Nationalcosmopolitan said:
But ½ or even 2/3 of world population does accept these assertions as true.
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Appeal to popularity.

An assertion is either true or not true, regardless of how many people believe it.

I hope that you really had read the New Testament.
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And where does it say that Jesus hated languages other than Hebrew?


It is the matter of fact that Torah is a Holy book for Jews, Christians and Muslims.
One can read New Testament and Koran to become absolutely sure about this.
So the Holy Resurrected Language of Holy Book for all three world religious believers is there Holy Language actually for today.
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Except that the Torah wasn't written in Hebrew.

There is no one person in the word who knows history completely and not subjectively.
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But it's entirely possible to only look at the data that supports one's own preferred interpretation. A good historian will look at all relevant documents and balance their relative merits before coming to any conclusion.

We are evidence of two successful models of globalization.
One is USA and other is UE.
USA – the Global State, were different nationals become in a second generation English natively speaking monolinguals, that had forgotten their national language and culture.
Click to expand...
Except that there are 5th and 6th generation people that still speak their native tongues, and celebrate their native cultures.

Canada and Australia just the same once.
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No idea what that means.

UE – the first bilingual and even three lingual global state were every UE citizens knows English, the language of one of 25 EU states and the language of his current residency.
Click to expand...
Wow, everyone in the EU knows English?? I suppose you have evidence to support this assertion.

My model is the third one really global model, because it use the Holy Resurrected Language as common, that makes all other national languages in a really equal status.
To every man his national language will be absolutely equal and symmetrically used as his Holy Resurrected Language.
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Ummmm. No.
 
Six7s!
Thanks for online vocabulary.

Let us drink for fast coming the time when people of different national languages can speak with each other on internet Forums with out problems.
But even in that times the Holy Resurrected Language will be natively known by every God believer bilingual with his national one.
 
There is not one person in the world who knows the mind of god completely and subjectively. How do you know god wants the world to learn Hebrew?
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High-educated clergy of all national Abram religious confessions know Hebrew and read Torah on Holy Language.
They have a big spirit experience in such cases.
I am absolutely sure that pastor who read Holy Book on Holy Language wants very much that all his flock has the same ability.
And after Hebrew had become the native language of 6 millions Israel Jews it is practically really possible to give it to know natively to every child of every monotheistic believer.
 
My initial reading of the OP was confusing enough....

But, now that I have looked elsewhere, I'm at a loss to understand any of it...

I mean, was it dead, dormant, or just having a Nanna Nap after lunch?


History of the Ancient and Modern Hebrew Language
By David Steinberg

2.6 Modern (Israeli) Hebrew

Modern Israeli Hebrew (see Berman), generally called either Modern Hebrew or Israeli Hebrew, started life, in the late 19th century, in the same way as all forms of Hebrew since the mid-first century CE i.e. a combination of Biblical Hebrew, Mishnaic Hebrew, the influence of the native languages of the speakers and, for the written form, their literary models.

This last element was of the least importance in fashioning the language. In the case of Israeli Hebrew, “the influence of the native languages of the speakers” translated into a profound impact on Modern Hebrew (see below), of the sentence structure and semantics of Yiddish, Russian and German in that order of importance.

We can tackle our discussion of Israeli Hebrew under three heads:
  • Grammar;
  • Phonology i.e. sound system
  • Semantics i.e. the range of meanings and associations of words
The relative importance of Biblical Hebrew, Mishnaic Hebrew, the influence of the native languages of the speakers differs in each of these issues.

The process of linguistic development is technically called pidginization followed by creolization (see Izre'el). Arabic went through a similar process in the 7th-8th centuries resulting in the formation of modern spoken Arabic dialects (see Pidginization and Creolization: The Case of Arabic (Amsterdam Studies in the Theory and History of Linguistic Science, Series IV: Current Issues in Linguistic Theory) by Kees Versteegh 1985). The similarity of their Semitic backgrounds, and their pidginization-creolization developmental process accounts for the very similar lines of development of Israeli Hebrew and spoken Arabic.
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http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Grammar/Introduction/Why_Hebrew_/why_hebrew_.html
The reason for Christians and Muslims to study Biblical Hebrew.

Ben Judah – the restorer of Hebrew had taught their children only Biblical Hebrew.
So his children had become the first natively speaking ONLY BIBLICAL HEBREW MONOLINGUALS.
They simply did not know any other language.
Zionists took this restored by one man and his children language as the basic of Modern Hebrew.
Every Israel citizen who knows Modern Hebrew natively can read and understand Torah written on Biblical Hebrew.
Oppose for example natively Russian speaking people can’t read Bible on Church Slavonic language.

All kinds of mutation of Modern Hebrew are possible, but it is impossible to reach the situation when natively Hebrew speaking person can’t read Torah on Holy Resurrected Language.
 
Wollery beat me to it.

You mix some fairly decent statements in with your own assertions (which you stated as if they were fact). That you are making assertions without producing evidence has been pointed out by brighter minds than me, and you simply keep doing it. So I don't think there's much point to me continuing that particular argument.

I have not, in fact, read the New Testament, or even the Old Testament, from start to finish, though I did grow up (partially) Catholic*. However, /you/ are the one who has made the claim that Jesus hated a particular language. Would you please be so kind as to cite chapter and verse, and perhaps include a quote? New Testament or Old, I don't mind. I'm certainly willing to admit that I'm totally wrong on this point, particularly because I don't have the Bible (or Torah, or Qu'ran**) memorized (I'm not a JIC), but I will require a quotation that I can verify.

You're quite right that no one can know history completely and objectively (especially since the recording of it is usually fairly subjective). However, one can at least know SOMETHING solid about what one is talking about -- such as, for example, the history and drift and development of the various forms of language that make up Hebrew or -- perhaps even more critically -- having a basic understanding of linguistics when talking about language. Linguistics is a branch of Cultural Anthropology and is, in fact, a very well-studied subject.

One last question -- and it's been asked before, but you haven't really answered it: you DO know that you're in a skeptics' forum, right? What response did you expect from the people here?

*In Catholic school, we were taught that the essence of Jesus' message was twofold: "Love God with your whole heart, mind and soul" and "Love your neighbor as yourself". As the main thrust of both points was love, there was not much room for hate (beyond the "hate the sin, not the sinner" variety of cliche).

** I bought a mainstream copy of the Qu'ran in a Bookstar at an extremely mainstream mall in Dubai. I started to read it, and didn't get very far. For one thing, I don't read Arabic. For another, a lot of what I was reading (the English translation, mind you) appeared to be extremely metaphorical in nature and I don't have the cultural background to get all of the references. Lastly, the footnotes weren't helpful. In two cases, a word was footnoted as meaning, essentially, something like "signs, portents, proofs, etc that this is the word of God". In the third instance, the very same word was footnoted (in a copy of the Qu'ran bought in a MAINSTREAM BOOKSTORE) as meaning "proof of the Jews' nefarious plot". I'm paraphrasing, but that is essentially what it said. I gave up at that point. So I am still QUITE sure that Muslims will not be too keen to embrace Hebrew as an auxiliary language.
 
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This does have a peculiar resonance with the Corn Gods thread.

Isn't there a Hebrew brand of hot dog that could be used for corn dogs?
 
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