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Will Obama's Association with Bill Ayers Scuttle his Candidacy?

Brainster

Penultimate Amazing
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
22,306
This came up during the presidential debate the other day:

STEPHANOPOULOS: And, Senator, if you get the nomination, you'll have...

(APPLAUSE)

... to beat back these distractions.

And I want to give Senator Clinton a chance to respond, but first a follow-up on this issue, general theme of patriotism, in your relationships. A gentleman named William Ayers. He was part of the Weather Underground in the 1970s. They bombed the Pentagon, the Capitol, and other buildings. He's never apologized for that.

And, in fact, on 9/11, he was quoted in the New York Times saying, "I don't regret setting bombs. I feel we didn't do enough." An early organizing meeting for your State Senate campaign was held at his house and your campaign has said you are "friendly."

Can you explain that relationship for the voters and explain to Democrats why it won't be a problem?

A bit of background here. The Weather Underground was a group of extremist radicals who splintered from the New Left-oriented Students for a Democratic Society. As Stephanopoulos noted, they engaged in bombings. Although they never killed anybody intentionally, three of their members were blown up when a pipe bomb they were manufacturing for a soldiers' dance at Fort Dix detonated accidentally. Among those killed was Ayers' girlfriend at the time. The group became fugitives. Ayers and his eventual wife, Bernardine Dohrn lived on the run for a decade, finally surrendering to authorities in 1980. Because of governmental misconduct, they were never tried, and eventually both became professors (at prestigious schools: the University of Chicago and Northwestern University). They remain radical Marxists and as noted do not repent their actions.

During Obama's initial run for the Illinois State Senate, he held his very first campaign fundraiser at the home of Ayers and Dohrn. Second, he sat on the nine-person board of a charitable foundation with Ayers for three years, even after Ayers made his extremely controversial remarks (in fairness to Ayers, although they were published on 9-11-01, they were from an interview he gave before the terrorist attacks). Ayers made a small donation to Obama's campaign in 2001. And Obama gave a speech in 2005 at an event where Ayers was also a speaker.

Obama's defense thus far is three-pronged. As he stated at the debate:

OBAMA: George, but this is an example of what I'm talking about. This is a guy who lives in my neighborhood, who's a professor of English [actually Education] in Chicago who I know and who I have not received some official endorsement from. He's not somebody who I exchange ideas from on a regular basis.

But as noted above, this is not just some guy who lives in his neighborhood; this is somebody who held a fundraiser at his house for Obama's first campaign.

Obama went on to use the tu quoque defense:

OBAMA: Look, I'm going to have to respond to this just really quickly, but by Senator Clinton's own vetting standards, I don't think she would make it, since President Clinton pardoned or commuted the sentences of two members of the Weather Underground, which I think is a slightly more significant act...

This is a valid criticism of Bill Clinton. The women pardoned (Susan Rosenberg and Linda Evans), had not repented their actions.

But Obama won't be able to slough this off in the general election campaign by pointing to John McCain's ties to the Weather Underground.

The third defense (offered by Obama's defenders) is that he can't be held responsible for what Bill Ayers did when Barack was 8 years old. This of course is a strawman; nobody's saying he should be responsible for what Ayers did. He's responsible for associating with Ayers, despite knowing the man's background and unrepentant posture. Ayers' comments published on 9-11 caused a firestorm of controversy because of the timing; there's no way Obama could have missed hearing about it.

How bad does this look? This video is getting a lot of attention:



That's very hard-hitting and unfair at least on one point (the image of the North Tower of the WTC after the crash of Flight 11). But effective? Hoo-boy!
 
See also here for a post about how some of Hillary's supporters are using this information:

The FBI material supplied by Sloan includes the first Weather Underground "statement" issued May 21, 1970, delivered by Dohrn and titled "A Declaration of a State of War." Dohrn's reading of the declaration opened as follows:

"All over the world, people fighting Amerikan imperialism look to Amerika's youth to use our strategic position behind enemy lines to join forces in the destruction of the empire. Black people have been fighting almost alone for years. We've known that our job is to lead white kids into armed revolution....Kids know the lines are drawn; revolution is touching all of our lives. Tens of thousands have learned that protest and marches don't do it. Revolutionary violence is the only way."
 
People didn't care that Obama was a student and sheep of Rev. Wright for 20 years. Why would they care about this?
 
People didn't care that Obama was a student and sheep of Rev. Wright for 20 years. Why would they care about this?

why such a put down? Why do you call Obama a "sheep" of Rev. Wright? Are you insinuating he followed Wright and all of his teachings? Are you saying he is merely a drone that follows Wright no matter what he says?

or were you just being humorous?

TAM:)
 
It's Fair Weather Underground sailing for Obama now that he is going to get the anarchists vote.
 
Excuse me for wondering, but is it supposed to be shocking that Obama is friendly with these people? A couple of university professors?

It seems that they have never been convicted of any crimes, so he's not associating with criminals.

Is there no depths people will go to to try to smear him? Jesus, I'd want a candidate who was friends with the radical and non-radical, christian and non-christian and warmonger and pacifist on level terms. It's not like Obama is some jumped-up, dried-out-alkie who's being puppeteered into the presidency.

Obama sat on a board with Ayers! OMFG! What should Obama have done? Resigned because someone else on the board may have been a criminal?
 
:rolleyes:

I hardly think that something so obscure and stretched will end his candidacy.

And if I may be a jerk:

Although they never killed anybody intentionally, three of their members were blown up when a pipe bomb they were manufacturing for a soldiers' dance at Fort Dix detonated accidentally.

Good riddance.
 
why such a put down? Why do you call Obama a "sheep" of Rev. Wright? Are you insinuating he followed Wright and all of his teachings? Are you saying he is merely a drone that follows Wright no matter what he says?

or were you just being humorous?

TAM:)

I wasn't being humorous at all. Unlike jews and catholics who for the most part have their religion picked for them by their culture, Obama picked this particular protestant church. A pastor in a church, has a flock and the shepherd/sheep analogy is used often.

Not only did he picked the church, but the guy performed his marriage, Obama stayed there 20 years, based a book on a sermon of his, and contributed financially to the church. Are suggesting the Obama went through these motions in protest?
 
Obama sat on a board with Ayers! OMFG! What should Obama have done? Resigned because someone else on the board may have been a criminal?

In a word, yes. Ayers was acquitted on a technicality. Simpson was acquitted because..ah, never figured that one out. But is there any doubt that either is a criminal?
 
It seems that they have never been convicted of any crimes, so he's not associating with criminals.
The only reason is that they were pardoned. So was Nixon...

And hey, OJ was never convicted! Maybe Obama can start hobnobbing with him also? It's not like he's a criminal!
 
Ayers and his eventual wife, Bernardine Dohrn lived on the run for a decade, finally surrendering to authorities in 1980. Because of governmental misconduct, they were never tried, and eventually both became professors (at prestigious schools: the University of Chicago and Northwestern University).
Not the University of Chicago, but the University of Illinois at Chicago. Different schools, one private and one public.

/pedant
 
I wasn't being humorous at all. Unlike jews and catholics who for the most part have their religion picked for them by their culture, Obama picked this particular protestant church. A pastor in a church, has a flock and the shepherd/sheep analogy is used often.

Not only did he picked the church, but the guy performed his marriage, Obama stayed there 20 years, based a book on a sermon of his, and contributed financially to the church. Are suggesting the Obama went through these motions in protest?

I guess, coming from the CT forum here, where the truthers etc... use the term sheep, or sheeple, to mean a follower who does so with out thought or contemplation, wondered if that was your intent.

TAM:)
 
Keep grasping, guys. Maybe you'll find something.

Anything to avoid talking about the issues. Anything at all.
 
Keep grasping, guys. Maybe you'll find something.

Anything to avoid talking about the issues. Anything at all.

The issue is the chances of this taking critical percentage points away from the dem side in the general election. The answer is, yes, both candidates, Obama in particular, have enough handicaps and exceptional (historically speaking) vulnerabilities to take away at least a few percentage points from them in November. Like most past elections recently it will come down to a very slim majority so the dems lose again, which is the issue, despite many politically incompetent dems' depravedly heady, stubborn, practically teenage-like enthusiasm and desperation.

The bigger issue is of course that the dems are quickly turning into an eroding road bump for the right wing authoritarian, militaristic, constitution trampling republicans.
 
Anything to avoid talking about the issues. Anything at all.

I've already been through the issues. No candidate is going to going to get nuclear power plants built. No candidate is going to open ANWR for drilling. No candidate is going to get us more offshore drilling platforms built.

The candidates won't address the issues. Instead, they offer sweeping plans that only congress can be responsible for.
 
yes damn that there enthusiasm...stupid enthusiasm. ridiculous hope....get back to same old same old...darn dems!

TAM;)
 
Keep grasping, guys. Maybe you'll find something.

Anything to avoid talking about the issues. Anything at all.

Elucidate for us, David. What issues exactly differentiate between Hillary and Obama?
 
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Another non-issue. This is the old politics. The politics of smearing and mudslinging and guilt-by-association. The American people are sick and tired of this cynical, paranoid style of politics.
 

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