This Guy
Master Poster
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2006
- Messages
- 2,140
I've seen "One very important difference is that the Bible is a book of fulfilled prophecy. But of course that's a completely different subject which would require its own thread with someone willing to delve into the subject in a predominantly atheistically oriented forum." stated here.
Well, I'm willing to delve into it, and I think this forum fits the requirement
I'm sure at least some of these have been discussed before. I don't expect to be breaking any new ground here. I do hope to learn something from this.
First just to get everything out front for those that aren't familiar with my postings, I'm atheist. I do not believe there is a god, let alone that the Bible is it's inspired/infallible word. So you can prolly guess which side of the debate I'll be taking
I intend to post a series of Bible prophecies that I believe have not been fulfilled, or not fulfilled as described in the prophesy. I would like for any/all theist to explain why I am wrong in believing the prophecy was not fulfilled as described in the Bible.
My intention is that this will be a learning experience for me, whether I'm correct or not. I hope it will be a learning experience for others also.
I intend to make this, at least on my part, as pleasant an exchange of ideas as possible. If, at the end of the discussion of a particular prophecy I have not been convinced that I am wrong, and the theist are also not convinced that they are wrong, I will agree to disagree with them. I will not belittle or insult anyone for honest opinions expressed in this thread. I ask that other posters follow my example, but obviously this forum is made up of individuals of various backgrounds and demeanors, and most will do what they want.
I would take it as a personal favor if someone would send a PM to Radrook, making him aware of this thread, and the intent of it. He has me on ignore (I was going to send him as friendly an invite as I could come up with, but have no PM option for him). I know he will be able to see the thread title, and that I started it, and that may be enough to get him to un-ignore me long enough to peek in, but perhaps a PM letting him know that I would like his input on the subject, since it is him I quoted at the beginning, would encourage him a little more. But, with or without his input, the thread will go on
Why do Bible prophecies matter? First, the Bible matters to many people. Many believe that everything written in the Holy Bible is the Divine word of God, and that the writers were inspired by God. They live their lives based on the belief that the Bible tells them how they should live, and what they should and should not do, or support. Many of these people feel that because their Holy Bible says so, they should resist and fight against such things as Gay marriages, abortions, stem cell research, evolution, and probably a host of other things I've forgotten. If the Bible is in fact the inspired word of a Supreme being, then there should be no errors, no contradictions, no unfulfilled prophecies.
I believe there are errors, contradictions, and unfulfilled prophecies in the Bible. I may, if this thread goes well, start other threads on the other two areas of problems within the Bible. Ive said before, I believe the greatest weapon to use against the Bible is the Bible. It is it's own worse enemy. Now, I'm testing that.
My plan is to post one example of what I believe to be an unfulfilled prophecy in this post. I'll allow a day or two for any theist that wants, to reply and correct my understanding. Once that prophecy has been beat to death, I will post another one, and continue until I run out of examples, or the interest in the thread gets too low to bother with it any more.
All Bible quotes are from the Kings James version, unless otherwise noted.
Matthew 7
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits.
Now, the first Prophecy:
Matthew 12:40
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Jonah 1:17
Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.
Mark 15
42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
43 Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.
44 And Pilate marvelled if he were already dead: and calling unto him the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead.
45 And when he knew it of the centurion, he gave the body to Joseph.
46 And he bought fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre.
47 And Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses beheld where he was laid.
The day before the Sabbath would be Friday. The Jewish Sabbath day began at sundown Friday (the 6th day of the week) and lasted until sundown Saturday.
Mark 16
1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?
4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.
5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.
6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.
Very early on the first day of the week would be Sunday morning.
Jesus said he would be buried three days and three nights, or about 72 hours. He died and was laid in the tomb Friday evening. Sunday Morning he was no longer in the tomb. The exact times are not given, but it appears (to me at least) that about sundown Friday until about sunrise Sunday was the time Jesus spent in the tomb. That would be about a day and a half, or about 36 hours. Not three days and three nights.
Where is my mistake?
Well, I'm willing to delve into it, and I think this forum fits the requirement
I'm sure at least some of these have been discussed before. I don't expect to be breaking any new ground here. I do hope to learn something from this.
First just to get everything out front for those that aren't familiar with my postings, I'm atheist. I do not believe there is a god, let alone that the Bible is it's inspired/infallible word. So you can prolly guess which side of the debate I'll be taking
I intend to post a series of Bible prophecies that I believe have not been fulfilled, or not fulfilled as described in the prophesy. I would like for any/all theist to explain why I am wrong in believing the prophecy was not fulfilled as described in the Bible.
My intention is that this will be a learning experience for me, whether I'm correct or not. I hope it will be a learning experience for others also.
I intend to make this, at least on my part, as pleasant an exchange of ideas as possible. If, at the end of the discussion of a particular prophecy I have not been convinced that I am wrong, and the theist are also not convinced that they are wrong, I will agree to disagree with them. I will not belittle or insult anyone for honest opinions expressed in this thread. I ask that other posters follow my example, but obviously this forum is made up of individuals of various backgrounds and demeanors, and most will do what they want.
I would take it as a personal favor if someone would send a PM to Radrook, making him aware of this thread, and the intent of it. He has me on ignore (I was going to send him as friendly an invite as I could come up with, but have no PM option for him). I know he will be able to see the thread title, and that I started it, and that may be enough to get him to un-ignore me long enough to peek in, but perhaps a PM letting him know that I would like his input on the subject, since it is him I quoted at the beginning, would encourage him a little more. But, with or without his input, the thread will go on
Why do Bible prophecies matter? First, the Bible matters to many people. Many believe that everything written in the Holy Bible is the Divine word of God, and that the writers were inspired by God. They live their lives based on the belief that the Bible tells them how they should live, and what they should and should not do, or support. Many of these people feel that because their Holy Bible says so, they should resist and fight against such things as Gay marriages, abortions, stem cell research, evolution, and probably a host of other things I've forgotten. If the Bible is in fact the inspired word of a Supreme being, then there should be no errors, no contradictions, no unfulfilled prophecies.
I believe there are errors, contradictions, and unfulfilled prophecies in the Bible. I may, if this thread goes well, start other threads on the other two areas of problems within the Bible. Ive said before, I believe the greatest weapon to use against the Bible is the Bible. It is it's own worse enemy. Now, I'm testing that.
My plan is to post one example of what I believe to be an unfulfilled prophecy in this post. I'll allow a day or two for any theist that wants, to reply and correct my understanding. Once that prophecy has been beat to death, I will post another one, and continue until I run out of examples, or the interest in the thread gets too low to bother with it any more.
All Bible quotes are from the Kings James version, unless otherwise noted.
Matthew 7
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits.
Now, the first Prophecy:
Matthew 12:40
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Jonah 1:17
Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.
Mark 15
42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
43 Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.
44 And Pilate marvelled if he were already dead: and calling unto him the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead.
45 And when he knew it of the centurion, he gave the body to Joseph.
46 And he bought fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre.
47 And Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses beheld where he was laid.
The day before the Sabbath would be Friday. The Jewish Sabbath day began at sundown Friday (the 6th day of the week) and lasted until sundown Saturday.
Mark 16
1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?
4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.
5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.
6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.
Very early on the first day of the week would be Sunday morning.
Jesus said he would be buried three days and three nights, or about 72 hours. He died and was laid in the tomb Friday evening. Sunday Morning he was no longer in the tomb. The exact times are not given, but it appears (to me at least) that about sundown Friday until about sunrise Sunday was the time Jesus spent in the tomb. That would be about a day and a half, or about 36 hours. Not three days and three nights.
Where is my mistake?
