Can Atheists Be Good Citizens?

I didn't read that whole very long article. My concept of an atheist is that we don't believe in dietys the supernatural or life after death. I personally obey the law of the land, vote, pay my taxes, give to charity and overall try to be helpful to my fellow man. Thats about as good a citizen as I can be.
 
Stone Island said:
Maybe I'm misreading you, but you seem to use "sense of justice" as if it was a universal. I wonder if appealing to their pity is more of what you meant.
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Well there is quite a lot of research that supports the idea that humans share the behaviour we label "a sense of justice". (Indeed you only need to be with young kids for a little while and you realize this - but it's always good to have the research to back up these "common sense" ideas.)
 
What if we changed our minds, as a society, and the majority decided that atheists should be hung from trees until dead. What then? To what would you appeal?
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What if somebody subjectively said it was "universal justice" that theists be hung until dead from trees, just like you subjectively say it isn't? What then? To what would you appeal?

If you said, "Well, that's what our forefathers agreed was universal morality, that no one should be hung from a tree for believing in God."

They might reply, "Well, people in the past were stupid, they didn't know all the things that we know now. We know now that it's much better and more just to hang theists from trees until they're dead."

Then what, Stone?
 
Its so good to know that the basis of all society is deep-seated, irrational fear.
 
bignickel said:
Stone Island, can atheists be good citizens?
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One might reasonably surmise that as he posted the article and seems quite keen on it that his answer will be no. Quite why he is so coy about it though is anyone's guess.
 
Stone Island,

Can an atheist be a good citizen?

(OMG guys stop stealing my thunder...I expect royalties. As the inventor of the question I would like to suggest the following addendum.)

Stone Island,

Why do you feel the need to make all of your controversial statements via a proxy?
 
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Shalamar said:
In some vague form, yes. (Part of my upbringing.)

But at the same time, I'm gaining a large distrust of organized religion.

I have an.. erm.. odd view on things.
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You are a theist. Theism isn't about religion. Atheists can be religionists; theists can be areligionists. You believe in God, which is sufficient for you to be a theist.
 
1. The Declaration of Independence is not a founding document, and is without legal weight. It is a piece of propaganda. This is not an insult, but a description.

2. If a society decided to hang atheists and not hang theists, that would not be legitimate, it would not be fair. A society can make illegitimate choices. I don't think you want to go down the road of calling every choice a society has made legitimate simply because a society made it.

3. If we accept theism as part of the definition of "good citizen," then obviously atheists can't be good citizens. Likewise, if we accept atheism as part of the definition of "good citizen," then obviously theists can't be good citizens. If we accept right-handed as part of the definition of "good citizen," then obviously lefties can't be good citizens. All three are absurd. The better course is to stick to an honest definition of "good citizen."

4. Even assuming for the sake of argument that Neuhaus' requirements of good citizens are reasonable, he doesn't require, at least by definition, that good citizens be theists. He requires that good citizens acknowledge a source for political authority that is higher than the self, and external to the self. There's no reason an atheist can't do that. Atheists don't have to be nihilists or egoists.

5. Stone Island,

Can atheists be good citizens?
 
KingMerv00 said:
Why do you feel the need to make all of your controversial statements via a proxy?
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In his How Many Nonbelievers? thread he explained it thus:

See, what happens is, that people aren't willing to say openly that they hate another group of people, not even to a anonymous pollster on the phone. The social taboo is just too strong.

Of course, the truth of the matter is that people hate all sorts of other people for all sorts of reasons. Evangelicals weren't willing to say that they wouldn't vote for a Mormon come hell or high water, but as my professors study showed, they weren't willing to vote for a Mormon, and the evidence is fairly clear that it's straight religious bias. You just have to work around what they are willing to openly say and try and get to what they really mean. That's fairly standard political science/public opinion research.
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I guess, like those interviewed in his professor's 'phone survey, he's just too cowardly to come out and state his position openly.
 
Polaris said:
The guy gave his life for his country. I can't imagine a better display of good citizenship than that. And he was an atheist.
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That good man risked his life for his country, he did not willingly martyr himself. He died in a tragic case of fratricide (aka friendly fire) while doing what he did well: leading his team, in this case his fire team of Rangers, in a close combat situation.

As to his display of good citizenship, yes, he sacrificed fame, money, hearth and home for his country. What is love but sacrifice?

Yeah, Pat Tillman loved his country, and showed it by both his actions and humility.

DR
 
godless dave said:
And throughout history many theists have. The kings of Europe, including the one the US declared independence from, derived their authority over others from the Christian God.
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And the sword. Please don't leave out that crucial detail. Power, and the acquiring of it, is often tied to brute force. The justification or excuses given for that exercise varies, but the mechanics of it rarely do.

DR
 
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