Outlawing prostitution

DanishDynamite

Penultimate Amazing
Joined
Aug 10, 2001
Messages
10,752
Within the last few days there has been political talk here about making it illegal for people to visit prostitutes, i.e. to pay for sex.

Apparently the Swedish Parliament has recently made such a law and various woos in the Danish Parliament are having similar feelings.

Your view?
 
Personally I've always thought that prostitution being illegal is one of the most asinine ideas I've ever heard. Not only is it not possible to stop prostitution, as evidenced by the thriving business despite its illegality, why is it anyone's business? After all, if I want to sell my car, I can. If I want to sell my house I can. I can sell virtually anything I legally own. What can I possibly claim a greater ownership over than my own body? If I or anyone else wants to trade sex for money or barter for other goods, in my view--have at it.
 
Interesting.

Didn't it used to be illegal at some time in the past? When was it legalized in the first place?

I'm surprised Sweden is going in that direction. Any outside influences at work?
 
Personally I've always thought that prostitution being illegal is one of the most asinine ideas I've ever heard. Not only is it not possible to stop prostitution, as evidenced by the thriving business despite its illegality, why is it anyone's business? After all, if I want to sell my car, I can. If I want to sell my house I can. I can sell virtually anything I legally own. What can I possibly claim a greater ownership over than my own body? If I or anyone else wants to trade sex for money or barter for other goods, in my view--have at it.
Couldn't agree more. :)
 
Interesting.

Didn't it used to be illegal at some time in the past? When was it legalized in the first place?
Are you thinking of prostitution as such? That has, to the best of my knowledge, never been illegal. And it isn't illegal now or being discussed. What is being discussed is making it illegal for a "John" to pay for sex.
I'm surprised Sweden is going in that direction. Any outside influences at work?
Not that I know of. Just typical Swedish idiocy. :)
 
Are you thinking of prostitution as such? That has, to the best of my knowledge, never been illegal. And it isn't illegal now or being discussed. What is being discussed is making it illegal for a "John" to pay for sex.

Illegal to buy but not to sell? How do they intend to enforce it?

Not that I know of. Just typical Swedish idiocy. :)

:eek:
 
Waiting for a Swede to show up all indignant ...

Is it better sport than ragging on Americans?
BigGrin3.gif
 
Within the last few days there has been political talk here about making it illegal for people to visit prostitutes, i.e. to pay for sex.

Apparently the Swedish Parliament has recently made such a law and various woos in the Danish Parliament are having similar feelings.

Your view?
I live in Sweden and have no problems with the Swedish law, which is several years old. It reflects my personal opinion on how it should be handled, although I'm open to other ideas. I wish you luck with coming to a consensus on the subject in Denmark, whatever conclusion you may reach.

By the way, isn't 'woo' used to refer to people who believe in supernatural things? In what way is this associated to the law? You have religious parties whining?
 
Last edited:
I live in Sweden and have no problems with the Swedish law, which is several years old. It reflects my personal opinion on how it should be handled, although I'm open to other ideas. I wish you luck with coming to a consensus on the subject in Denmark, whatever conclusion you may reach.
Thanks for giving us your opinion. How is it that you don't feel foolish outlawing a human urge? Would you also feel good making it a law that PI = 3?
By the way, isn't 'woo' used to refer to people who believe in supernatural things? In what way is this associated to the law? You have religious parties whining?
Woo is generally used for belief in anything supernatural. Sometimes it is used to refer to any similarly idiotic belief.
 
Thanks for giving us your opinion. How is it that you don't feel foolish outlawing a human urge?
Because I don't. What urge are you talking about?

Would you also feel good making it a law that PI = 3?
Of course I wouldn't - why do you even ask? Do you think my opinion has anything even remotely to do with the Bible? Might as well clarify right away that it has not.

Woo is generally used for belief in anything supernatural. Sometimes it is used to refer to any similarly idiotic belief.
Okay, it's just that most mentions of idiotic beliefs on this forum refer to belief in supernatural phenomena, then. Totally semantics. :p

Waiting for a Swede to show up all indignant ...

Is it better sport than ragging on Americans? [qimg]http://skepticalcommunity.com/phpbb2/images/smiles/BigGrin3.gif[/qimg]
Not as satisfying... we're not very patriotic. Unless you're lucky, you'll just get a smugly superior one on the hook. :D
 
Because I don't. What urge are you talking about?
The urge to ****, obviously.
Of course I wouldn't - why do you even ask? Do you think my opinion has anything even remotely to do with the Bible? Might as well clarify right away that it has not.
On what is your hillarious opinion based, then?
Okay, it's just that most mentions of idiotic beliefs on this forum refer to belief in supernatural phenomena, then. Totally semantics. :p
Whatever.
 
This isn't the government's business.

Prostitution should be legal and should be practiced enthusiastically whether it is legal or not.
 
The urge to ****, obviously.
I never said anything about outlawing ****ing.

On what is your hillarious opinion based, then?
You find it hilarious now? I thought you were worried about the prospect that Denmark might pass the law.

Unlike those who believe in the Bible, however, my opinion is not based on one simple thing, but rather a lot of things. Essentially, I don't see sex as a good to be traded, and I also think such a law somewhat limits how much advantage one may take of an individual in economic need. There are several other factors which makes me think prostitution is probably not a great thing, but those have less to do with why I support the law and more with why I wouldn't be interested in it if it was legal.

Why did you assume I took my morals from the Bible?
 
Last edited:
Essentially, I don't see sex as a good to be traded,

Why?

What tests can I apply to anything to determine if it should be tradable?

and I also think such a law somewhat limits how much advantage one may take of an individual in economic need.

Remind me to walk in to my boss' office and give him a right trashing for taking advantage of my economic situation. He has the nerve to let me do all kinds of stuff in return for money that I rather desperately need.

What he does is no different than what someone does who pays a prostitute or lawyer or cleaning staff or any odd kid flipping burgers.

There are several other factors which makes me think prostitution is probably not a great thing, but those have less to do with why I support the law and more with why I wouldn't be interested in it if it was legal.

You haven't convinced me that those are good reasons. Why should sex not be sold? Why is it worse for a service to be provided to be sex rather than a haircut or walls being painted?
 
Essentially, I don't see sex as a good to be traded

Why?

What tests can I apply to anything to determine if it should be tradable?

Well there could be the "lemons" problem (after George Akerlof), which is inside information assymetry. You won't be able to get top dollar for great sex because buyers won't know in advance if it's great sex. Hence all the sex for sale will be low quality. Not a reason to ban it but a possible reason why the market works as it does.

I don't know how good in bed George Akerlof might be though. :)
 
Last edited:
The basic problem, of course, is that prostitution causes a lot of abuse and trafficking. There is constant discussion about the poor trafficked woman versus the "happy prostitute". For some reason, some people seem to think those are in any way mutually exclusive, which, of course, they aren't; both exist.

The main reason (there are, of course, moralists and puritans of various confessions eagerly jumping the bandwagon) for this debate is the whish to stop trafficking and abuse. I see several problems with outlawing prostitution, however:

It will only further marginalize those we most want to help: The trafficked women who are already often illegal immigrants, drug addicts, etc. Whoever wants to abuse them will have a further weapon: Now their very business is a crime.

We have very bad past experiences with outlawing things that people do to satisfy their urges. Usually organized crime is the only winner.

How exactly will you define prostitution. OK, the hooker in the street is clear enough, but what about the person who sleeps with somebody in return for a carreer advance, a pay raise, or gifts? Where do you put the limit?

Also, If we say that prostitution is selling sex, then what exactly is sex? Intercourse, of course, but what about a blow-job? Certain kinds of massage? Striptease? Posing for porn photos?



Hans
 
Why?

What tests can I apply to anything to determine if it should be tradable?
You're asking that question as if I stated an undisputable fact rather than my opinion. It isn't just a matter of a simple 'test'. There are a lot of things to be taken into account.


Remind me to walk in to my boss' office and give him a right trashing for taking advantage of my economic situation. He has the nerve to let me do all kinds of stuff in return for money that I rather desperately need.

What he does is no different than what someone does who pays a prostitute or lawyer or cleaning staff or any odd kid flipping burgers.
I didn't say no one could take advantage of someone in economic need, I said I want to limit how much advantage one should take. In what way is cleaning or flipping burgers similar to having sex with someone? I would say there's a rather big difference in terms of social and psychological meaning as well as intimacy, wouldn't you?


You haven't convinced me that those are good reasons. Why should sex not be sold? Why is it worse for a service to be provided to be sex rather than a haircut or walls being painted?
In our current society, sex is commonly a display of affection - one of the strongest and most intimate displays of affection. Not necessarily love, but affection. However, sex has a separate history of being used as a tool for or display of dominance, a tradition mostly associated with behaviors we wish to prohibit in our current society, such as rape and child molestation. Prostitution belongs to that tradition rather than to the one of affectionate sex. I admit these categories may intersect and can not be viewed as completely separate, but it is my wish to eliminate as much of the latter one as possible.
 

Back
Top Bottom