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Obama on Gun Control

BPSCG said:
We got into Bush when Cleon dragged the Republicans in by basically answering the OP by saying, "Well, the Repubs are no better."
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Actually, his question was concerning your own double standard.


BPSCG said:
From there it naturally devolved/derailed into a comparison of Obama and Bush. How did Bush and the Repubs get dragged into this? By Cleon's derailing non-answer.
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A comparison of Obama and Bush? You presented a straw man and basically called Cleon a Bush Basher. That's how Bush got dragged into it: you drug him in.


BPSCG said:
The sequence is pretty easy to follow, really.
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Indeed, but you missed it entirely.
 
BPSCG said:
Link

(Note this is from December, 1999, when Obama was an Illinois state senator.)
Bolding mine.

If someone steals your gun out of your house and shoots someone with it, you get charged with a felony.

Today's exercise: Calculate how far you would have to drive in order to get to the closest point where a gun store could legally be located, i.e., more than five miles from the nearest school or park.
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This is about as silly as legislating for the exception of firearms that can't hit the side of a barn...He says.."except for antique weapons." I have an "antique weapon, about 135 years old, that would kill at least 5 people with one shot if properly line up.

This is classic political pandering to the ignorant (equivalent mentally to creationists) idealists who think there are simple legal solutions to the desire of some to kill others. Another good reason not to vote for a wannabe hippie.

Personally, I am not against stricter registration of firearms, so as to make it easier to catch those who misuse them, nor am I against the even stricter regulation of certain types of firearms which are obviously only military in nature; but I've always wanted to fire a chain gun, just once, to blow a thousand bucks in an orgy of wasted lead and target mayhem.:cool:

(And in case anyone thinks I'm an NRA member, I think they, the NRA, are right down there with self serving Scientologists:boxedin:)
 
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Upchurch said:
Actually, his question was concerning your own double standard.
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That too, but my more general point is that I feel the exact same way about those laws whether they're for porn stores or gun dealers. I don't like them, but I also don't consider them to be a significant threat to our civil liberties.

And yes, BPSCG, I do consider Bush to be hostile to our constitutional rights. When I take into account this Administration's defense and use of torture, hostility towards fourth amendment rights, and refusal to take responsibility for its actions, I just can't get worked up about not being able to buy a gun within five miles of a park or school.
 
Elind said:
This is about as silly as legislating for the exception of firearms that can't hit the side of a barn...He says.."except for antique weapons." I have an "antique weapon, about 135 years old, that would kill at least 5 people with one shot if properly line up.
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Ah, you have a pepperbox!

I was armed to the teeth with a pitiful little Smith & Wesson's seven-shooter, which carried a ball like a homoeopathic pill, and it took the whole seven to make a dose for an adult. But I thought it was grand. It appeared to me to be a dangerous weapon. It only had one fault -- you could not hit anything with it. One of our "conductors" practiced awhile on a cow with it, and as long as she stood still and behaved herself she was safe; but as soon as she went to moving about, and he got to shooting at other things, she came to grief. The Secretary had a small-sized Colt's revolver strapped around him for protection against the Indians, and to guard against accidents he carried it uncapped. Mr. George Bemis was dismally formidable. George Bemis was our fellow-traveler. We had never seen him before. He wore in his belt an old original "Allen" revolver, such as irreverent people called a "pepper-box." Simply drawing the trigger back, cocked and fired the pistol. As the trigger came back, the hammer would begin to rise and the barrel to turn over, and presently down would drop the hammer, and away would speed the ball. To aim along the turning barrel and hit the thing aimed at was a feat which was probably never done with an "Allen" in the world. But George's was a reliable weapon, nevertheless, because, as one of the stage-drivers afterward said, "If she didn't get what she went after, she would fetch something else." And so she did. She went after a deuce of spades nailed against a tree, once, and fetched a mule standing about thirty yards to the left of it. Bemis did not want the mule; but the owner came out with a double-barreled shotgun and persuaded him to buy it, anyhow. It was a cheerful weapon -- the "Allen." Sometimes all its six barrels would go off at once, and then there was no safe place in all the region round about, but behind it.
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From Mark Twain's Roughing It
 
You all have chosen to not look one layer deeper on this Obama solution to gun violence. I can see a linkage to civil law tied to this criminal statute. When the gun owner is now by law supposed to be liable for felonious activity, for what someone stealing his gun does, you can bet that the tort opportunities open up big and wide shortly thereafter.

Obama is a lawyer. I don't find it a big surprise that he proposes a rule that would make lawyers rich.

Anyone ever hear of a self licking ice cream cone?

DR
 
Elind said:
Sounds a little too conspiratorial for my liking, but then again we have the knee jerk symptom....
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If you are referring to my post, I offer to you the per capita density of lawyers in the US of A. Making new laws to try cases over, and generate income, is job security for the legal profession.

Try getting a law off the books.

DR
 
Darth Rotor said:
If you are referring to my post, I offer to you the per capita density of lawyers in the US of A. Making new laws to try cases over, and generate income, is job security for the legal profession.

Try getting a law off the books.

DR
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I don't have a problem with this comment on the whole, just that I find it doubtful that Obama, or really most legislators, will come up with laws for the deliberate purpose of creating work for lawyers.
 
Elind said:
I don't have a problem with this comment on the whole, just that I find it doubtful that Obama, or really most legislators, will come up with laws for the deliberate purpose of creating work for lawyers.
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Politicians are above that kind of behavior.

Dammit, where's the sarcasm font when you need it most?
 
BPSCG said:
If someone steals your gun out of your house and shoots someone with it, you get charged with a felony.
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Jaggy Bunnet said:
If, and only if, you had not securely stored your weapon.
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Beeps ... how could you have overlooked/missed this one?

If the gun was stolen, it obviously wasn't secure! :rolleyes:

Cue music: One way, or another, we're gonna getch ya ...
 
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Cleon said:
And yes, BPSCG, I do consider Bush to be hostile to our constitutional rights. When I take into account this Administration's defense and use of torture, hostility towards fourth amendment rights, and refusal to take responsibility for its actions, I just can't get worked up about not being able to buy a gun within five miles of a park or school.
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So to your way of thinking an end-run around the second amendment is okay, but not one around the fourth.

See the map of the St. Louis area I posted on page 1 for Upchurch? I have a similar one of the Atlanta metro area. I can't seem to upload it from work, so it'll have to wait until I get home, but when I post it, I'd like you to reposition the red circle so that it doesn't touch a school or a park. I'm sure you'll find lots of places in metro Atlanta that qualify.

Here's a question. Suppose you do somehow find a spot that qualifies, i.e., is at least five miles from any school and park. How hard do you think it would be for the local town council or county board to take a couple of hundred square feet of public land nearby and declare it a park, and thereby force the gun shop to close down?

Not that anyone would actually do that, I'm sure.
 
I live in a fairly rural area of NY, and I suspect that every gun shop and every gun show venue within 100 miles of me would have to close/move as a result of this.

We have a large Mennonite / Amish population here, with rural schools that are no more than 10 miles apart.

It would certainly prevent them from owning firearms!
 
BPSCG said:
And there are no other schools or parks within a ten-mile radius of that spot you're driving to?
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Another issue would be, once you find a spot, is it zoned properly for a business?
 
Okay, Cleon, here's your mission. Move the red spot so that it doesn't touch any school or park (you can click on the map to enlarge it):

We're counting on you; the second amendment hangs in the balance!

 
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