Some thoughts about the Mohammed Cartoons

Sunni Man said:
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My father-in-law became physically ill when he saw it in the news. And my mother-in-law just heard about the cartoon, and stayed in bed all day from grief....
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Anyone taking this person seriously, get a grip!!!! This is a troll.
 
Please keep the discussion on track and remember to attack the argument. Thank you.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LibraryLady
 
Just a few definitions to help things along.

Wordnet at Princeton defines Wahhabi:


S: (n) Wahhabi, Wahabi (a member of a strictly orthodox Sunni Muslim sect from Saudi Arabia; strives to purify Islamic beliefs and rejects any innovation occurring after the 3rd century of Islam)

Ethnicity online defines Shi’a and Sunni.

Shi'a : approximately 10% of Muslims across the world would call themselves Shi'ite Muslims; that is, they follow the Shi'a tradition. The Muslim community split in a dispute occurring after the death of the Prophet Muhammad, when there was disagreement about Muhammad's successor. There is a slight difference in the way the two groups – Shi'a and Sunni – conduct their lives, and they have some festivals and events exclusive to each group, but otherwise they both follow the Qur'an.


Sunni : most Muslims would call themselves Sunni Muslims, as opposed to Shi'ite Muslims. The Muslim nation split shortly after the death of the Prophet, when a successor could not be agreed on. However, apart from a few differences in holidays and salat times, both groups follow Islam, the Qur'an and Allah in much the same way.
 
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Macoy said:
Do you think that independent thought should be controlled by the religious authorities?
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Not at all.

Islam has a great intellectual history of socratic type of discourse.

But once again, it needs to be within the framework of decency and morality.
 
~enigma~ said:
Read my exchange with him (or her). I mentioned Whabbism and Bin Ladin. The retort was a common woo statement that the US recruited, equipped and funded Bin Ladin and Al-Qaeda to fight the Russians. Why that answer? I mentioned the Whabbi connection in Afghanistan. IOW, I tested the waters and he (she) responded like Pavlov's dog salivated at a bell.

ETA - Al-Qaeda was formed in 1996 NOT during the Russian invasion. He (she) isn't a Muslim.
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http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/RL33038.pdf
From the "CRS Report for Congress: Al Qaeda: Profile and Threat Assessment" Aug 17 2005

.. Azzam is identified by some experts as the intellectual architect of the jihad against the 1979 - 1989 Soviet Occupation of Afghanistan, and ultimately of Al Qaeda itself..
.. In 1984, Azzam and bin Laden structured this assistance by establishing a network of recruiting and fund-raising offices in the Arab world, Europe, and the United States. That network was called the Maktab al Khidamat (Services Office), also known as Al Khifah; many experts consider the Maktab to the the organizational forerunner of Al Qaeda.

.. During this period, most US officials perceived the volunteers as positive contributors to the effort to expel Soviet forces from Afghanistan, and the US officials made no apparent effort to stop the recruitment of the non-Afghan volunteers for the war. US officials have repeatedly denied that the United States directly supported the volunteers. The United States did covertly finance (about $3 billion during 1981-1991) and arm (via Pakistan) the Afghan mujahedin factions, particularly the Islamic fundamentalist Afghan factions, fighting Soviet forces. By almost all accounts, it was the Afghan mujahedin factions, not the Arab volunteer fighters, that were decisive in persuading the Soviet Union to pull out of Afghanistan.
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While this does not state that the US supplied money and training to bin Laden, I can see how someone might read this and think that it is implied.

and
In 1988, toward the end of the Soviet occupation, bin Laden, Azzam, and other associates began contemplating how, and to what end, to utilize the Islamist volunteer network they had organized. US intelligence estimates of the size of that network was about 10,000 - 20,000; however, not all of these necessarily supported or participated in Al Qaeda terrorist activities. Azzam apparently wanted this "Al Qaeda" (Arabic for "the base") organization - as they began terming the organization in 1988 - to become an Islamic "rapid reaction force," available to intervene wherever Muslims were perceived to be threatened.
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and
In 1992, Al Qaeda claimed responsibility for bombing a hotel in Yemen where 100 US military personnel were awaiting deployment to Somalia for Operation Restore Hope.
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and http://www.basicsproject.org/terrorism/terror_organizations/terror_organizations.htm#Al_Qaeda
"Bin Laden formed al-Qaeda in the late 1980s in order to organize the recruitment, funding and organization of these “Afghan Arab” mujahideen. "
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So back to what Enigma was saying..
~enigma~ said:
A Wahabbist would know Al-Qaeda wasn't formed until they merged with Al-Jihad in 1996 so SM isn't a Wahabbist. Also if he was not a troll he would have answered according to what was said not made such a senseless and idiotic statement. But if that is what you choose to believe, by all means go ahead and let the troll lead you like a puppet on a string.
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I don't see why a Wahabbist would "know" Al-Qaeda wasn't formed until 1996, when the sources I looked at say it was formed in the late 1980s. Even wikipedia (I know, not a reliable source) states it was formed in the 1980s. Nor do I see that him believing that the US funded and supported bin Laden's work fighting the Soviets as particularly telling of anything. Many people believe that, not just "truthers".


Perhaps Sunni Man is a fake. Perhaps he is really a fundie islamist. If he returns, sooner or later we will know.

Either way, I think a better way to interact with him, rather than insult him or accuse him of being a fake or a liar, would be to calmly and respectfully discuss why secularists value freedom of speech. And why no group should get preferential treatment in that regard.

This is supposed to be an educational board, isn't it? Let's quit insulting people and start educating them (and ourselves) instead.

My 2 cents.

Meg
 
Sunni Man, I do hope you answer my question I have asked previously, and was somewhat the main point of this thread.

My question is this: Why is your belief system any more invested in your emotions than Communism, Fascism or serving in the United States Army - all things that greatly change almost everything aspect of your life - does?
 
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Thank You Meg!

That was great research you did there.

This morning it occured to me that Enigma may have been thinking about Sayed Qtub.

He is considered the father of the modern Jihad movement. And his book "In the Shade of the Quran" , and other works, are considered the seminal work that inspired Bin Ladin, Al Qaedia, the Muslim Brotherhood, etc.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
My question is this: Why is your belief system any more invested in your emotions than Communism, Fascism or serving in the United States Army - all things that greatly change almost everything aspect of your life - does?
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As stated before. Islam is a 24/7/365 religion.

It guides you in marriage, family life, business, child rearing, personal finances, food choices, etc.

Non of the other organizations you mentioned are that deeply involved in your life.
 
You are welcome, Sunni Man.

I am glad to see you returned while I was writing my previous post.

I am sad to say I have to go to work now, though, so I am unable to discuss more today. I will check back in when I get home tonight.

Meg
 
Sunni Man said:
Non of the other organizations you mentioned are that deeply involved in your life.
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How was National Socialism any less involved, not just your individual life, but in the way your country was transformed? Let's remember this was not simply a change in government, but a complete overhall of almost everything. I'm sure some can help me out here, who have more knowledge than I, but let us not forget that millions of pages of literature were destroyed. If you were a fascist at that time, it is clear you were invested in your cause. The Hitler Youth?

This was surely more deeply involved in your life.

Please understand I am not comparing the policies of Fascism to Islam, but there is no difference in the depth it had on your life.

Do you think the Japanese in WW2 were any less emotionally invested in their leader?
 
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Undesired Walrus said:
How was National Socialism any less involved, not just your individual life, but in the way your country was transformed? Let's remember this was not simply a change in government, but a complete overhall of almost everything. I'm sure some can help me out here, who have more knowledge than I, but let us not forget that millions of pages of literature were destroyed. If you were a fascist at that time, it is clear you were invested in your cause. The Hitler Youth?

This was surely more deeply involved in your life.

Please understand I am not comparing the policies of Fascism to Islam, but there is no difference in the depth it had on your life.

Do you think the Japanese in WW2 were any less emotionally invested in their leader?
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Walrus, I can't speak for all of these other people and organization.

I just know what I believe and live everyday.
 
So do you honestly think there is nothing more invested in a person than religous belief? C'mon guy, that's silly.
 
Hi Sunni Man, easy question: What was the sequence of events that lead you to decide to become a muslim?
 
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