Should rapists who rape a child be put to death?

[soylent]

It basically comes down to math. If we could set up an equation where the rapist got his "eye for an eye" taking the size difference of him and his victim into account and dishing out the penalty according to that ratio I could live with that.

For instance: Adult male to child = large tree branch to adult male.

*struggles to resist making brown eye for a brown eye joke and fails miserably*

Well... There was this guy in the news a few years ago who reportedly died from busting his colon after letting a stallion have sex with him.

 

[Ian Osborne]

Of course a punishment ends with death, but bringing that death forward is the punishment. And the endless appeals from those on death row seem to imply the prisoners consider it a worse punishment than life without parole.

Why are we splitting hairs like this anyway?

 

[Almo]

I think by the time an adult commits rape or murder, they are far beyond reflecting on the error of their ways.

I doubt that's true in all (or even most) cases.

That would be preferable if prisons were foolproof. They aren't. People sometimes escape and continue to hurt others.

But that is STILL the crook committing a crime. It's better to let the occasional crook recommit crime through accident or failure than to have the state kill the occasional innocent person through accident or failure.

 

[Drudgewire]

Well... There was this guy in the news a few years ago who reportedly died from busting his colon after letting a stallion have sex with him.

Ah, good old Mr. Hands. The movie about him actually won awards at Cannes last year.

For the record, if you want many, many nightmares search his name on ytmnd.com. Some of the tributes actually include the sound of his colon bursting.

 

[CFLarsen]

I'm not personally in favour of the death penalty. I'm just bemused by certain people here who try to argue - with a straight face - that it isn't a punishment.

I haven't seen anyone argue that. Who are you talking about?

Of course a punishment ends with death, but bringing that death forward is the punishment.

But, since you don't think that torture-until-death is an option, what is wrong with chulbert's suggestion of fooling people into believing they are about to be killed?

Apart from the fact that, if it is never followed through with an actual execution, it loses its punishment factor.

Yes, I see your problem: Your idea of punishment by threatening with death is ineffective.

And the endless appeals from those on death row seem to imply the prisoners consider it a worse punishment than life without parole.

Prisoners who serve sentences of life without parole don't appeal?

 

[chulbert]

Of course a punishment ends with death, but bringing that death forward is the punishment. And the endless appeals from those on death row seem to imply the prisoners consider it a worse punishment than life without parole.

I can't really express this any clearer. The act of execution is not punishment because while the prisoner is deprived of life, they are also absolved of their will to live. Up until that point I'm sure the punishment is agonizing. But if the punishment of the death penalty is limited to the time leading up to the execution and not the execution itself, why must the state actually kill the prisoner? Is it simply to create a convincing story for the next inmate on death row?

If there existed a drug that induced the anxiety of imminent death and the state gave it to an inmate for the average amount of time spent on death row, wouldn't that inmates individual experience be identical to one actually executed?

 

[Ian Osborne]

I haven't seen anyone argue that. Who are you talking about?

Read the thread.

Prisoners who serve sentences of life without parole don't appeal?

I haven't seen anyone argue that. Who are you talking about?

 

[Rufo]

I'm a little late into the "is death penalty a punishment and how" debate, but I think the meaning of 'punishment' has been a bit limited here.

It seems the definition of a punishment used (at least by those who argue that death itself is no such thing) is to cause negative experiences to a subject. I disagree. I think it should be included in the definition of a punishment that it may consist of denying someone positive experiences, in addition to giving someone negative experiences. This means that no, since the subject does not necessarily have to know about the positive experiences which they are denied (the only purpose of that would be for them to have the negative experience of grieving over their loss), they do not need be aware they are being punished.

Since death penalty effectively denies a person all the positive experiences of the rest of their life, even the time after death is a punishment, even if they are not aware of it.

Of course, it's all totally semantics. That said, I don't care much for punishments either way.

 

[Ian Osborne]

Agreed, Rufo. A fine is a punishment because you couldn't spend the money on anything else. Does it become no punishment if you hadn't any set plans for it?

You're right about it being semantics too, though some people like to split hairs for the sake of it.

 

[bigred]

Any form of punishment should:

1) Prevent the offender from committing the crime again.
2) Cost the taxpayer as little as possible.

And that's all it should do.

So we can mark you down for a "yes" I take it.

So you'd have no objections to being dead? Judging by the lengthy appeals prisoners on death row go through, few people sentenced to death seem to share your view.

The defining characteristic of punishment is retribution, not rehabilitation. That's not to say rehabilitation is a bad thing - far from it. Merely that the death sentence is very much a punishment, even if (in automotive terms) it's a write-off rather than a repair.

What he said.

 

[Rufo]

So we can mark you down for a "yes" I take it.

That is debatable. There is more than a little debate going on about whether death penalty is cost effective or not. In the US, the legal processes tend to be extremely lengthy, and thus extremely expensive. There are other things to take into account which may nullify this, but it's not a simple matter.

Still, seems to me like a rather minor matter in a morally heavy question like this.

 

[bigred]

Why are we splitting hairs like this anyway?

I can only think of 2 possible reasons: boredom or stupidity. Here's to boredom.

 

[Damien Evans]

No, because I'm morally opposed to the death penalty.

I would not, however be opposed to locking him up for life with a guy named bubba, if you get my drift.

 

[CFLarsen]

Read the thread.

I have. Some have argued that being dead is not punishment. But I haven't seen anyone arguing that the death penalty isn't punishment.

I haven't seen anyone argue that. Who are you talking about?

I am asking you: Do prisoners who serve sentences of life without parole not appeal?

 

[El Greco]

Has any lawyer chimed in yet ? If yes, I suppose he must have explained why maximum sentences for sub-maximum crimes is a bad idea. Since a rape victim is perfectly possible to go on and live a happy life, rape is a submaximal crime.

 

[The Atheist]

Chemical castration.

Or docking rings - if it's good enough for sheep, it's good enough for a rapist.

 

[richardm]

Read the thread.

I haven't seen anyone argue that. Who are you talking about?

Ian, give it up, mate. You've heard that old saw about not mud-wresting with a pig?

 

[Ian Osborne]

Ian, give it up, mate. You've heard that old saw about not mud-wresting with a pig?

Yes, you're right. I'll let him be a butt-hole with someone else.

 

[CFLarsen]

Yes, you're right. I'll let him be a butt-hole with someone else.

I take it you won't answer the question, then.

 

[Ian Osborne]

I take it you won't answer the question, then.

<yawn>

Yes, Claus, prisoners who get life without parole appeal. Almost everyone who gets a stiff sentence appeals, hoping that sentence is reduced. In the case of a condemned criminal, the appeal hopes to get the death sentence reduced - yes, R-E-D-U-C-E-D - to life without parole. Get the picture?

But then you knew all this anyway, didn't you? You're simply being an ass...