Buddhism For Dummies ??????

[Nosaj]

Stout,

Of course, the problem's come with the various ways I can interpret different sentences. Like the idea of freeing ones self from desire. OK, maybe putting a 60 inch plasma that I can ill afford, on my credit card on a whim isn't the brightest ideas, but, if someone were to try and convince me that my desire for a warm coat on a cold day was philosophically wrong...then we'd have an argument.

I guess what I'm saying..is I seem to have figured out the truths/ path for myself. I'm no longer attached to material possessions, that is, I no longer attribute them the same significance that I used to because they're just "things" That motorcycle I bought...it was my passion, it was THE motorcycle that I spent hours and hours polishing...is now just a hunk of metal taking up space in my garage. The passion for it died out over time due to my changing priorities...It took me a while to deal with this idea, i thought maybe there's something wrong with me for loosing interest in what was once the focus of my life, but somehow, i managed to let go of those thoughts on my own....Maybe I was reborn...in a sense.

In regard to what the Buddha said about this, please read these three excerpts from the Pali Canon: the Sigalovada Sutta (DN 31), the Adiya Sutta (AN 5.41), and the Dighajanu Sutta (AN 8.54). Perhaps it should also be mentioned that there are two kinds of desire (chanda), desire as a defilement and desire as a part of the path. The advice that the Buddha gives to us in the Pali Canon is not to attach to these worldly gains, not that we must forsake them altogether. Many people mistake the Buddha's teachings as meaning we must give up everything we own, or refrain from being successful in life. This is not true. While monastics are required to relinquish their possessions, lay-followers are not. They are simply taught specific conducts which are in line with the Dhamma. The truth is, if the accumulation of wealth is used (and accumulated) in the right way, it can actually be beneficial as we can see from the Buddha's advice to the wealthy Anathapindika:

"...There is the case where the disciple of the noble ones — using the wealth earned through his efforts & enterprise, amassed through the strength of his arm, and piled up through the sweat of his brow, righteous wealth righteously gained — provides himself with pleasure & satisfaction, and maintains that pleasure rightly. He provides his mother & father with pleasure & satisfaction, and maintains that pleasure rightly. He provides his children, his wife, his slaves, servants, & assistants with pleasure & satisfaction, and maintains that pleasure rightly. This is the first benefit that can be obtained from wealth.

"Furthermore, the disciple of the noble ones — using the wealth earned through his efforts & enterprise, amassed through the strength of his arm, and piled up through the sweat of his brow, righteous wealth righteously gained — provides his friends & associates with pleasure & satisfaction, and maintains that pleasure rightly. This is the second benefit that can be obtained from wealth.

"Furthermore, the disciple of the noble ones — using the wealth earned through his efforts & enterprise, amassed through the strength of his arm, and piled up through the sweat of his brow, righteous wealth righteously gained — wards off from calamities coming from fire, flood, kings, thieves, or hateful heirs, and keeps himself safe. This is the third benefit that can be obtained from wealth.

"Furthermore, the disciple of the noble ones — using the wealth earned through his efforts & enterprise, amassed through the strength of his arm, and piled up through the sweat of his brow, righteous wealth righteously gained — performs the five oblations: to relatives, guests, the dead, kings, & devas. This is the fourth benefit that can be obtained from wealth.

"Furthermore, the disciple of the noble ones — using the wealth earned through his efforts & enterprise, amassed through the strength of his arm, and piled up through the sweat of his brow, righteous wealth righteously gained — institutes offerings of supreme aim, heavenly, resulting in happiness, leading to heaven, given to priests & contemplatives who abstain from intoxication & heedlessness, who endure all things with patience & humility, each taming himself, each restraining himself, each taking himself to Unbinding. This is the fifth benefit that can be obtained from wealth.

"If it so happens that, when a disciple of the noble ones obtains these five benefits from wealth, his wealth goes to depletion, the thought occurs to him, 'Even though my wealth has gone to depletion, I have obtained the five benefits that can be obtained from wealth,' and he feels no remorse. If it so happens that, when a disciple of the noble ones obtains these five benefits from wealth, his wealth increases, the thought occurs to him, 'I have obtained the five benefits that can be obtained from wealth, and my wealth has increased,' and he feels no remorse. So he feels no remorse in either case..." (AN 5.41)​

The fact is, the problem does not lie with owning possessions, or with being financially successful in and of itself; the problem lies within our own mind, and more specifically, with our mind's attachment to these things in the mistaken belief that these things are the keys to true and lasting happiness. If the mind is not free from the three defilements of greed, hatred, and delusion, then no amount of property or wealth will bring true and lasting happiness. It is only when we are able to uproot our ignorance of the Four Noble Truths that we are able to have such happiness no matter what the external circumstances of our lives might be. Essentially, nowhere did the Buddha ever tell his lay-followers not to wish for success or happiness. Instead, he gave his lay-followers a set of guidelines for living in a morally skillful and prosperous way. Certain desires, like that of wanting to follow the Noble Eightfold Path (dhamma-chanda), are actually part of the Path itself.

Jason

 

[Nosaj]

So I guess my questions are more to do with the four noble truths, and the eightfold path from a modern, western perspective. For instance, someone's telling me that the first truth....All life is suffering...is an inaccurate translation of the word "dukka", that the Buddha wasn't talking about "suffering" as we think of the concept today.

The Pali word dukkha, often translated as "suffering", is philosophically complex. The Buddha detailed three types of suffering—dukkha-dukkha (suffering due physical pain and mental anguish), viparinama-dukkha (suffering that results from change), and sankhara-dukkha (suffering due to fabrication). That is why, in regard to the First Noble Truth, suffering is defined as birth, aging, illness, death, sorrow, lamentation, pain grief, despair, associating with the unloved, separation from the loved, not getting what one wants, and in particular, the five aggregates of clinging (SN 56.11). With the presence of clinging in regard to the five aggregates, the experience of phenomena such as sickness and physical pain are experienced as suffering; however, without the presence of clinging, the experience of phenomena such as sickness and physical pain are not experienced as suffering. In other words, although nibbana is said to be the cessation of suffering, that does not mean that a person will not feel physical pain or discomfort, but it does mean that such feelings will no longer cause mental suffering, emotional distress, et cetera. In fact, there are many places in the Canon where the Buddha mentions his own physical pains and ailments. This is also made clear in the simile of the dart found in SN 36.6:

"An untaught worldling, O monks, experiences pleasant feelings, he experiences painful feelings and he experiences neutral feelings. A well-taught noble disciple likewise experiences pleasant, painful and neutral feelings. Now what is the distinction, the diversity, the difference that exists herein between a well-taught noble disciple and an untaught worldling?

"When an untaught worldling is touched by a painful (bodily) feeling, he worries and grieves, he laments, beats his breast, weeps and is distraught. He thus experiences two kinds of feelings, a bodily and a mental feeling. It is as if a man were pierced by a dart and, following the first piercing, he is hit by a second dart. So that person will experience feelings caused by two darts. It is similar with an untaught worldling: when touched by a painful (bodily) feeling, he worries and grieves, he laments, beats his breast, weeps and is distraught. So he experiences two kinds of feeling: a bodily and a mental feeling.

"Having been touched by that painful feeling, he resists (and resents) it. Then in him who so resists (and resents) that painful feeling, an underlying tendency of resistance against that painful feeling comes to underlie (his mind). Under the impact of that painful feeling he then proceeds to enjoy sensual happiness. And why does he do so? An untaught worldling, O monks, does not know of any other escape from painful feelings except the enjoyment of sensual happiness. Then in him who enjoys sensual happiness, an underlying tendency to lust for pleasant feelings comes to underlie (his mind). He does not know, according to facts, the arising and ending of these feelings, nor the gratification, the danger and the escape, connected with these feelings. In him who lacks that knowledge, an underlying tendency to ignorance as to neutral feelings comes to underlie (his mind). When he experiences a pleasant feeling, a painful feeling or a neutral feeling, he feels it as one fettered by it. Such a one, O monks, is called an untaught worldling who is fettered by birth, by old age, by death, by sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair. He is fettered by suffering, this I declare.

"But in the case of a well-taught noble disciple, O monks, when he is touched by a painful feeling, he will not worry nor grieve and lament, he will not beat his breast and weep, nor will he be distraught. It is one kind of feeling he experiences, a bodily one, but not a mental feeling. It is as if a man were pierced by a dart, but was not hit by a second dart following the first one. So this person experiences feelings caused by a single dart only. It is similar with a well-taught noble disciple: when touched by a painful feeling, he will no worry nor grieve and lament, he will not beat his breast and weep, nor will he be distraught. He experiences one single feeling, a bodily one.

"Having been touched by that painful feeling, he does not resist (and resent) it. Hence, in him no underlying tendency of resistance against that painful feeling comes to underlie (his mind). Under the impact of that painful feeling he does not proceed to enjoy sensual happiness. And why not? As a well-taught noble disciple he knows of an escape from painful feelings other than by enjoying sensual happiness. Then in him who does not proceed to enjoy sensual happiness, no underlying tendency to lust for pleasant feelings comes to underlie (his mind). He knows, according to facts, the arising and ending of those feelings, and the gratification, the danger and the escape connected with these feelings. In him who knows thus, no underlying tendency to ignorance as to neutral feelings comes to underlie (his mind). When he experiences a pleasant feeling, a painful feeling or a neutral feeling, he feels it as one who is not fettered by it. Such a one, O monks, is called a well-taught noble disciple who is not fettered by birth, by old age, by death, by sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair. He is not fettered to suffering, this I declare.

"This, O monks, is the distinction, the diversity, the difference that exists between a well-taught noble disciple and an untaught worldling."​

Jason

 

[Nosaj]

Stout,

Of course, the problem's come with the various ways I can interpret different sentences. Like the idea of freeing ones self from desire. OK, maybe putting a 60 inch plasma that I can ill afford, on my credit card on a whim isn't the brightest ideas, but, if someone were to try and convince me that my desire for a warm coat on a cold day was philosophically wrong...then we'd have an argument.

Something that I should also mention in regard to the place of desire in Buddhism is that context is key, and the term itself does not encompass all potential forms of motivation. For example, when asked by Unnabha what the purpose of living the holy life under the ascetic Gotama was about, Ananda, the Buddha's cousin, answered, "It is for the sake of abandoning desire, brahmin, that the holy life is lived under the Blessed One" (SN 51.15, Bodhi). Nevertheless, the arahant, one whose mind is free of defilement, is not completely motivationless, for their consciousnesses can still be colored by compassion and a whole array of other wholesome mental factors, e.g., Maha Kassapa explains that compassion motivates him to continue to meditate in the wilderness even though he is already an arahant (SN 16.5). Additionally, as I have previously mentioned, there are two types of desire in Buddhism, i.e., desire as a defilement and desire as a part of the path. That means that desire in and of itself is not rejected by the Buddha as most people mistakenly believe; in fact, desire plays a very important role in the practice. For instance, we have the four bases of power (iddhipada), which are desire, persistence, intent, and discrimination. In regard to desire as a part of the path, Thanissaro Bhikkhu explains in Wings to Awakening:

Many popular Western writings criticize the four qualities listed in the bases of power — desire, persistence (effort), intent (will), and discrimination (the discriminating mind) — as enemies of proper meditation, both in that they interfere with the calming of the mind and are antithetical to the goal of the Unfabricated, which lies beyond desire, effort, and the categories of discrimination. The first part of the extended formula deals with the first of these criticisms.

There is the case where a monk develops the base of power endowed with concentration founded on desire & the fabrications of exertion, thinking, 'This desire of mine will be neither overly sluggish nor overly active, neither inwardly restricted nor outwardly scattered.' (Similarly with concentration founded on persistence, intent, and discrimination.)

This passage shows that the problem lies, not in the desire, effort, intent, or discrimination, but in the fact that these qualities can be unskillfully applied or improperly tuned to their task. If they were absent, the practice — if it could be called a practice — would stagnate from loss of direction or motivation. If they ran wild, they would interfere with mindful concentration. So the trick is not to deny them, but to tune them skillfully so that they will help focus the mind on the present moment. Thus, for instance, in the practice of meditation, as with any skill, it is important not to focus desire too strongly on the results one hopes to get, for that would interfere with the mind's ability to focus on giving rise to the causes leading to those results. If, instead, one focuses desire on putting the causes in proper order in the present moment, desire becomes an indispensable part of the process of mastery.

Passage §67 deals with the second criticism — that desire, etc., are antithetical to the goal — by showing that these qualities are necessary for anyone who pursues a path, but are automatically abandoned on reaching the goal at the path's end. The image of the path is important here, for it carries important implications. First, the path is not the goal; it is simply the way there, just as the road to the Grand Canyon should not be confused with the Grand Canyon itself. Even though many stretches of the road bear no resemblance to the Grand Canyon, that does not mean that the road does not lead there. Secondly, the path of practice does not cause the goal, it simply leads there, just as neither the road to the Grand Canyon nor the act of walking to the Grand Canyon can cause the Grand Canyon to be. The goal at the end of the Buddhist path is unfabricated, and therefore no amount of desire or effort can bring it into being. Nevertheless, the path to the goal is a fabricated process [§105], and in that process desire, effort, intent, and discrimination all have an important role to play, just as the effort of walking plays a role in arriving at the Grand Canyon.​

Therefore, we can conclude with a reasonable amount of certainty that the Buddha made a distinction between skillful (kusala) and unskillful (akusala) forms of desire. We can see from the second paragraph that desire as a part of the path is a skillful type of desire that is accompanied by other skillful qualities. However, if we take a closer look at the passage mentioned in the last paragraph recording an exchange between Ananda and the brahmin Unnabha in SN 51.15, we can see that the attainment of the goal is indeed achieved through desire, even though paradoxically, the goal is said to be the abandoning of desire. That is because at the end of the path desire, as well as the other three bases of power, subside on their own. As Ananda explains at the end of SN 51.15, "He earlier had the desire for the attainment of arahantship, and when he atained arahantship, the corresponding desire subsided. He earlier had aroused energy for the attainment of arahantship, and when he attained arahantship, the corresponding energy subsided. He earlier had made up his mind to attain arahantship, and when he attained arahantship, the corresponding resolution subsided. He earlier had made an investigation for the attainment of arahantship, and when he attained arahantship, the corresponding investigation subsided" (Bodhi).

Jason

 

[Stout]

Just a caveat- becomingagodo does not know anything at all about Buddhism (or much of anything that he's thusfar demonstrated). He has opinions, mind- but they appear to be rooted in ignorance, prejudice, and assumption. I would take his posts with a grain of salt.

Thanks Piscivore, I'll take that under advisement, being a rookie, I figured I'd entertain all opinions and insights with a view to disregarding those that don't appear relevant later on.

Dancing David...thanks for your response. I actually gave the motorcycle away to someone who wanted it and was willing to fix it up. I used it as a story because, even though it was sitting around for years, I was still illogically attached to it because of what it was, and what it represented, when I bought it. I was concerned that it went to "a good home"

Elohim...And thank you for your responses. You've given me enough to keep me busy for days and I'll read everything ( there'll be lots of rereading going on too I strongly suspect ) So I can't say I have any questions at this stage of the game.

I think I understand the Buddhist idea of faith, and how it differs in what I stereotypically describe as faith.

 

[Dancing David]

Thank you Jason.

I am listening to your teaching.

Thank you.

 

[Apathia]

Thank you much Elohim (Jason) for your "divine" intervention in this thread!

 

[Nosaj]

Stout,

And then there's the "personal interpretation" aspect that seems to accompany individual Buddhists. Take Karma for example. Is Karma something that we accrue in this life, or the next ?

There are many misconception in regard to kamma and the ways in which kamma is said to work. To begin with, the Buddha said, "Intention, I tell you, is kamma. Intending, one does kamma by way of body, speech, and intellect" (AN 6.63). The word itself simply means "action." Thus, kamma is commonly defined as intentional actions of body, speech, and mind. Intention (cetana) is a product of the aggregate of mental formations (sankharakhandha). The cause by which kamma comes into play is contact (phassa). Furthermore, according to Nyanatiloka's Manual of Buddhist Terms and Doctrines, vipaka is "any... mental phenomenon (e.g. bodily agreeable or painful feeling, sense-consciousness, etc.), which is the result of wholesome or unwholesome volitional action (karma, q.v.) through body, speech or mind, done either in this or some previous life."

On a more simplistic level, volitional actions of body, speech, and mind (kamma) produces fruits or results (vipaka) as long as there is ignorance (avijja), i.e., ignorance of the Four Noble Truths, present. With ignorance present, all intentional actions of body, speech, or mind are said to have the potential to ripen during this life-time (dittha-dhamma-vedaniya-kamma), in the next birth (upapajja-vedaniya-kamma), or in later births (aparapariya-vedaniya kamma). Additionally, the commentarial tradition of Theravada denies that everything is the result of kamma. According to them, there are five natural laws (panca-niyamas) which operate in the physical and mental worlds. The five laws are seasonal laws (utu-niyama), biological laws (bija-niyama), psychological laws (citta-niyama), kammic laws (kamma-niyama), and natural laws (dhamma-niyama) *.

With all of this in mind, I believe that in certain contexts, it would be appropriate to think of kamma as "habit energy" in that the potential effect of an action can be to strengthen certain physical and psychological reactions. This is especially true in regard to psychological reactions considering that vipaka is limited specifically to "mental phenomena," i.e., corporeal things are never called kamma-vipaka. In most contexts, however, I believe that "habit energy" applies more to the Pali word "anusaya." Essentially, the anusaya (underlying tendencies) are the "seven major obsessions to which the mind returns over and over again." According to Buddhaghosa, "These things are called 'proclivities' since, in consequence of their pertinacity, they ever and again tend to become the conditions for the arising of ever new sensuous greed, etc.'' (Vis.M. XXII, 60).

Consulting Nyanatiloka's Manual of Buddhist Terms and Doctrines once again, he states that kamma-produced corporeal things are never called kamma-vipaka (kamma-result), "as this term may be applied only to mental phenomena." Instead, they are termed kammaja or kamma-samutthana (kamma-produced). This category would include phenomena such as the sense organs, for example, and these phenomena are said to be conditioned through wholesome or unwholesome volitional actions in a previous existence. To summerize, kamma is intentional actions of body, speech, and mind that are performed in the present moment, the present moment is conditioned by the results of past actions combined with the results of present actions, the psychological results are termed kamma-vipaka, and the corporeal results are termed kamma-samutthana.

Jason

 

[Nosaj]

Stout,

I took the liberty of including some of my thoughts regarding the issue of rebirth, and specifically, the question, "What is it that's reborn?" in case you are interested:


One of the most common questions about rebirth is, "What is it that's reborn?" We can look at this issue in many ways, but I believe that the most important is to start by understanding that the Buddha himself never answered these types of questions for two reasons. The first reason is that they are based upon faulty assumptions. For example, when asked by a certain monk, "Which is the birth, lord, and whose is the birth?," the Buddha answered, "Not a valid question... From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth" (SN 12.35). Why? Because the question is wrongly put. The second reason is that they do not lead to the end of suffering. For example, when asked who experiences things such as feelings, craving, clinging, et cetera, the Buddha re-framed these questions in a way that was conducive to liberation, i.e., in terms of dependent co-arising. In other words, when answering the question of "who" or "what" experiences suffering, and consequently, the cessation of suffering, the Buddha speaks only in terms of conditionality—that which conditions the origination of suffering, and that which conditions its cessation (SN 12.12). There is no mention of an "experiencer," only the complex process by which suffering arises and ceases. Essentially, it is up to the meditator to use these teachings as a guideline for observing their experience of the present moment in terms of the Four Noble Truths, and to perform the tasks associated with each, i.e., comprehend suffering, abandon its cause, realize its cessation, and develop the path to that cessation. Furthermore, the question as it is phrased will inevitably lead to one of the two extreme forms of wrong view, i.e., eternalism and annihilationism. For example, in SN 12.17 the Buddha explains:

"Now, when asked, 'Is stress self-made?' you say, 'Don't say that, Kassapa.' When asked, 'Then is it other-made?' you say, 'Don't say that, Kassapa.' When asked, 'Then is it both self-made and other-made?' you say, 'Don't say that, Kassapa.' When asked, 'Then is it the case that stress, being neither self-made nor other-made, arises spontaneously?' you say, 'Don't say that, Kassapa.' When asked, 'Then does stress not exist?' you say, 'It's not the case, Kassapa, that stress does not exist. Stress does exist.' When asked, 'Well, in that case, does Master Gotama not know or see stress?' you say, 'Kassapa, it's not the case that I don't know or see stress. I know stress. I see stress.' Then explain stress to me, lord Blessed One. Teach me about stress, lord Blessed One!"

"'The one who acts is the one who experiences [the result of the act]' amounts to the eternalist statement, 'Existing from the very beginning, stress is self-made.' 'The one who acts is someone other than the one who experiences' amounts to the annihilationist statement, 'For one existing harassed by feeling, stress is other-made.' Avoiding these two extremes, the Tathagata teaches the Dhamma via the middle:

From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications.
From fabrications as a requisite condition comes consciousness.
From consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form.
From name-&-form as a requisite condition come the six sense media.
From the six sense media as a requisite condition comes contact.
From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling.
From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving.
From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging/sustenance.
From clinging/sustenance as a requisite condition comes becoming.
From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth.
From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play.
Such is the origination of this entire mass of stress & suffering.

"Now from the remainderless fading & cessation of that very ignorance comes the cessation of fabrications. From the cessation of fabrications comes the cessation of consciousness. From the cessation of consciousness comes the cessation of name-&-form. From the cessation of name-&-form comes the cessation of the six sense media. From the cessation of the six sense media comes the cessation of contact. From the cessation of contact comes the cessation of feeling. From the cessation of feeling comes the cessation of craving. From the cessation of craving comes the cessation of clinging/ sustenance. From the cessation of clinging/sustenance comes the cessation of becoming. From the cessation of becoming comes the cessation of birth. From the cessation of birth, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair all cease. Such is the cessation of this entire mass of stress & suffering."​

That being said, rebirth is essentially renewal of existence. As with most Eastern philosophies and religions, Buddhism does not view death as the final end of phenomena. In Buddhism, only nibbana is said to be the final end of phenomena in regards to the arising and passing away of beings (AN 10.58). According to the teachings on dependent origination, if there are sufficient conditions present, those conditions with inevitably result in future births (SN 12.35). Along with consciousness, craving plays a vital role in the renewal of beings and the production of future births. To illustrate how craving could result in future births, the Buddha used a simile in which he compared the sustenance of a flame to that of a being at the time of death. Essentially, a flame burns in dependence on its fuel, and that fuel sustains it. When a flame burns in dependence on wood, for example, the wood sustains that flame. However, when a flame is swept up and carried away by the wind, the fuel of wind sustains that flame until it lands upon a new source of fuel. In the same way, a being at the time of death has the fuel of craving as its sustenance (SN 44.9). The last consciousness of a being at the time of death, with the presence of craving, is the cause for the arising of a new consciousness. In the human realm, this would be in combination with the union of a healthy sperm and egg, although the Buddha often mentioned various other forms of birth in other realms of existence—none of which are free from suffering. Hence, the Buddha states, “Wherever there is a basis for consciousness, there is support for the establishing of consciousness. When consciousness is established and has come to growth, there is the production of renewed existence” (SN 12.38).

Just to remove some of the more common misunderstandings in regard to consciousness (vinnana), let me make a few things clear. In regard to consciousness, dependent co-arising specifically states, "From the arising of name-and-form comes the arising of consciousness. From the cessation of name-and-form comes the cessation of consciousness." (SN 29.56). Additionally, in DN 15, special attention is paid to the complex relationship between name-and-form (nama-rupa), otherwise translated as mentality-materiality, and consciousness—with the Buddha detailing the mutual dependency of mental and physical activity and consciousness. In one analogy used to illustrate their relationship, consciousness and name-and-form act as two sheaves of reeds leaning against one another. In essence, the two sheaves of reeds support one another, and if one were pulled away, the other would fall (SN 12.67). Furthermore, in response to the view that "it is this same consciousness that runs and wanders through the round of rebirths, not another" put forth by Sati, a bhikkhu that was the son of a fisherman, the Buddha rebukingly said, "Misguided man, have I not stated in many ways consciousness to be dependently arisen, since without a condition there is no origination of consciousness" (MN 38).

Coming back to the teachings on rebirth, the "re" implies that something happens again, and that something is birth, i.e., the appearance of the aggregates, which takes place again and again. As such, this process of birth, death, birth, et cetera will continue as long as the requsite conditions are present. The word for "rebirth" in Pali is punabhava, which literally means "re-becoming," or "renewed existence." Although the aggregates are impermament, they are conditioned by causes anterior to birth, and act as causes for future births. Kamma is what makes entire this process possible. In Bhikkhu Bodhi's words, "When ignorance and craving underlie our stream of consciousness, our volitional actions of body, speech, and mind become forces with the capacity to produce results, and of the results they produce the most significant is the renewal of the stream of consciousness following death" (Anicca Vata Sankhara). Therefore, while there is a type of continuity invloved in this process, it should not be mistaken for something substantial. As such, this "stream of consciousnes" should not be understood as a static thing, but simply a complex and uninterupted process of arising and ceasing in which both consciousness and craving play an important role. The term "rebirth" is merely a convenience.

So, instead of the question, "What is [re]born?," a more appropriate question is, "What is [re]birth?" The answer that the Buddha gives is, "It is the birth of beings in the various classes (planes) of beings; the production, their conception, coming into existence (re-birth), the appearance of the aggregates, acquiring of the sense-bases. This is called birth" (MN 141). The five aggregates (pancakhandha) or the five clinging-aggregates (upadanakhandha) are what constitute the physical and mental phenomena of existence. They are the material aggregate (rupa-khandha), i.e., matter, the feeling aggregate (vedana-khandha), i.e., pleasant, painful, neutral, the perception aggregate (sanna-khandha), i.e., recognition, interpretation, the mental fabrication aggregate (sankhara-khandha), i.e., thinking, fashioning, and the consciousness aggregate (vinnana-khandha), i.e., cognizance, raw sensory awareness. Incidentally, another reason that I believe the Buddha does not answer the question of what is reborn is that there is no thing as much as there is a continuous process that is, when you break it down, ultimately unsatisfactory compared to the experience of the cessation of that process. This process of birth, death, and rebirth — the appearance of the aggregates and acquiring of the sense-bases — is essentially suffering. The cause for this suffering is craving (tahna), the craving that "leads to renewed existence, accompanied by delight and lust, seeking delight here and there; craving for sensual pleasures, craving for existence, and craving for annihilation" (SN 56.11). The cessation of this process is due to the cessation of craving, which is achieved when we skillfully fabricate our reality in such a way that we come to a point of gnosis:

"Now this, monks, is the noble truth of stress: Birth is stressful, aging is stressful, death is stressful; sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair are stressful; association with the unbeloved is stressful, separation from the loved is stressful, not getting what is wanted is stressful. In short, the five clinging-aggregates are stressful.

"And this, monks, is the noble truth of the origination of stress: the craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual pleasure, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming.

"And this, monks, is the noble truth of the cessation of stress: the remainderless fading & cessation, renunciation, relinquishment, release, & letting go of that very craving.

"And this, monks, is the noble truth of the way of practice leading to the cessation of stress: precisely this Noble Eightfold Path — right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration.

"Vision arose, insight arose, discernment arose, knowledge arose, illumination arose within me with regard to things never heard before: 'This is the noble truth of stress'... 'This noble truth of stress is to be comprehended'... 'This noble truth of stress has been comprehended.'

"Vision arose, insight arose, discernment arose, knowledge arose, illumination arose within me with regard to things never heard before: 'This is the noble truth of the origination of stress'... 'This noble truth of the origination of stress is to be abandoned' ... 'This noble truth of the origination of stress has been abandoned.'

"Vision arose, insight arose, discernment arose, knowledge arose, illumination arose within me with regard to things never heard before: 'This is the noble truth of the cessation of stress'... 'This noble truth of the cessation of stress is to be directly experienced'... 'This noble truth of the cessation of stress has been directly experienced.'

"Vision arose, insight arose, discernment arose, knowledge arose, illumination arose within me with regard to things never heard before: 'This is the noble truth of the way of practice leading to the cessation of stress'... 'This noble truth of the way of practice leading to the cessation of stress is to be developed'... 'This noble truth of the way of practice leading to the cessation of stress has been developed.'

"And, monks, as long as this knowledge & vision of mine — with its three rounds & twelve permutations concerning these four noble truths as they actually are present — was not pure, I did not claim to have directly awakened to the right self-awakening unexcelled in the cosmos with its devas, Maras, & Brahmas, with its contemplatives & priests, its royalty & commonfolk. But as soon as this knowledge & vision of mine — with its three rounds & twelve permutations concerning these four noble truths as they actually are present — was truly pure, then I did claim to have directly awakened to the right self-awakening unexcelled in the cosmos with its devas, Maras & Brahmas, with its contemplatives & priests, its royalty & commonfolk. Knowledge & vision arose in me: 'Unprovoked is my release. This is the last birth. There is now no further becoming.'"​

To reiterate, the question of what is reborn is inappropriate due to the fact that it is based upon faulty assumptions and does not lead to the end of suffering. As such, the Buddha rephrases the question in a more appropriate way, i.e., "With what as condition is there birth?" The reason is that rebirth is the continuation of a process, which is in the form of an "open-system" (able to receive input, as well as produce output), and not the transmigration of any permanent thing or entity. There is a type of continuity invloved in this process, but it should not be mistaken for something substantial. This is where the teachings on dependent co-arising (paticca-samuppada) come into play. In its simplest form, dependent co-arising states, "When this is, that is. From the arising of this comes the arising of that. When this is not, that is not. From the cessation of this comes the cessation of that" (AN 10.92). In short, when we look at the teachings on dependent co-arising, we can see how there appears to be a type continuity without there having to be an unchanging core at the center, i.e., from ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications, from fabrications as a requisite condition comes consciousness, from consciousness as a requisite condition comes name and form, from name and form as a requisite condition come the six sense media, from the six sense media as a requisite condition comes contact, from contact as a requisite condition comes feeling, from feeling as a requisite condition comes craving, from craving as a requisite condition comes clinging, from clinging as a requisite condition comes becoming, from becoming as a requisite condition comes [re]birth, from [re]birth as a requisite condition comes aging and death, et cetera (SN 12.2).


I know that you are not as interested in concepts such as rebirth, but seeing as how rebirth is an important part of Buddhism, I thought I would at least mention it.

Jason

 

[jimtron]

Thoughts, attachment and feelings prevent you from being in peace, what you are doing now is the ultimate irony. You are trying to understand the uncomprehensible.

This is my problem with Buddhism and every other religion--for it to "work" you have to sort of turn your mind off. Which is a good idea sometimes, like for meditating. But when it comes to trying to decide which interpretation of which scripture of which branch of which religion, you're not supposed to be analytical--you're supposed to turn your brain off and let it hit you (many would say, I think).

When I've asked followers of different religions difficult questions about their religion, they usually say something like, "you're thinking too much."

 

[Nosaj]

jimtron,

This is my problem with Buddhism and every other religion--for it to "work" you have to sort of turn your mind off. Which is a good idea sometimes, like for meditating. But when it comes to trying to decide which interpretation of which scripture of which branch of which religion, you're not supposed to be analytical--you're supposed to turn your brain off and let it hit you (many would say, I think).

When I've asked followers of different religions difficult questions about their religion, they usually say something like, "you're thinking too much."

That is simply not true. A look at the Pali Canon will reveal that the practice itself involves a great deal of analytical thinking. There are meditation techniques, for example, that utilize objects such as the 32 parts of the body, that focus on the stages of death and decomposition, that focus on the way mental states arise and cease, that focus on the way pleasant and painful feelings arise and cease, et cetera. Furthermore, when discursive thinking falls away on its own, when the mind is still but full of energy and mindfulness, the mind is not off, but immersed in awareness. Plus, as you can see, I am not the type of person to say something like, "You're thinking too much."

As for saying that analytical or critical thinking is discouraged in regard to the Buddha's teachings, that is also not true. As the Buddha himself advised on how to recognize authentic teachings, "As for the teachings of which you may know, 'These teachings lead to dispassion, not to passion; to being unfettered, not to being fettered; to divesting, not to accumulating; to modesty, not to self-aggrandizement; to contentment, not to discontent; to seclusion, not to entanglement; to aroused persistence, not to laziness; to being unburdensome, not to being burdensome': You may definitely hold, 'This is the Dhamma, this is the Vinaya, this is the Teacher's instruction'" (AN 8.53).

Jason

 

[Ryokan]

For the Buddha and critical thinking, you could also read the Kalama Sutta. That's a damn fine guide to critical thinking that is as valid today as it was 2500 years ago.

 

[jimtron]

jimtron,



That is simply not true. A look at the Pali Canon will reveal that the practice itself involves a great deal of analytical thinking. There are meditation techniques, for example, that utilize objects such as the 32 parts of the body, that focus on the stages of death and decomposition, that focus on the way mental states arise and cease, that focus on the way pleasant and painful feelings arise and cease, et cetera. Furthermore, when discursive thinking falls away on its own, when the mind is still but full of energy and mindfulness, the mind is not off, but immersed in awareness. Plus, as you can see, I am not the type of person to say something like, "You're thinking too much."

As for saying that analytical or critical thinking is discouraged in regard to the Buddha's teachings, that is also not true. As the Buddha himself advised on how to recognize authentic teachings, "As for the teachings of which you may know, 'These teachings lead to dispassion, not to passion; to being unfettered, not to being fettered; to divesting, not to accumulating; to modesty, not to self-aggrandizement; to contentment, not to discontent; to seclusion, not to entanglement; to aroused persistence, not to laziness; to being unburdensome, not to being burdensome': You may definitely hold, 'This is the Dhamma, this is the Vinaya, this is the Teacher's instruction'" (AN 8.53).

Jason

Thanks for the response. I guess I was basing that on an exchange with a single person, so I spoke too soon.

How do Buddhists know that humans can be reincarnated? Also, what's the Buddhist take on which religions are true? IOW, if I want to find the true or a true (ie, not just made up) religion, how do that? How do I distinguish between what's real vs. what's only imagined in terms or religion, according to Buddhism?

 

[Stout]

Thanks Eilohim...I haven't been doing any reading since my last post as I lost my internet connection due to a squirrel chewing through the cable...

Anyways, I appreciate your response(s) and hope to play catch-up this evening.

 

[Nosaj]

jimtron,

Thanks for the response. I guess I was basing that on an exchange with a single person, so I spoke too soon.

Not a problem, I simply wish to correct misunderstandings in regard to what the Buddha taught. I do not mind seeing criticism as long as it is not misguided criticism. While there are certainly many things that one can take issue with in terms of Buddhist doctrines and practices, a lack of analytical thinking is not one of them, e.g., the second book of the Abhidhamma Pitaka, the Vibhanga, is translated as "Book of Analysis." In fact, the Abhidhamma Pitaka is the most analytical body of religious literature I have ever seen. Anyway, while I do not have much time, I will try to give you a couple of short answers to your questions.

How do Buddhists know that humans can be reincarnated?

Frankly, they don't know (at least very few do). There are many things in Buddhism which are difficult, if not impossible, to prove. The literal interpretation of rebirth is one of them. I know of no way in which to scientifically prove or verify that this phenomena is at all possible—all of the most convicing evidence I have seen in support of this possibility has been in the form of case studies and first-hand accounts. Nevertheless, rebirth is an important part of Buddhism. In Buddhist cosmology, there are said to be at least thirty-one distinct realms of existence, and existence within the continual round of birth and death is suffering and bondage.

As for the nature of these realms, they are generally treated as either external realms of existence where rebirth is possible due to the ripening of wholesome or unwholesome kamma (it is said those with the divine eye (dibba-cakkhu) can see these beings vanishing and reappearing) or experiences with no external location, i.e., they are mentally fabricated realities based upon wholesome or unwholesome kamma. My personal belief is that rebirth into any of these realms is a possiblity; although, I am also open to the possibility that these are merely methaphorical descriptions of various pleasant and unpleasant mental states.

Pragmatically, I view samara as the potential for the arising of human [mental] suffering, while I view nibbana as the cessation of that potential. Nevertheless, according to Nyanatiloka's Manual of Buddhist Terms and Doctrines, samara, literally "perpetual wandering," is "the unbroken chain of the five-fold khandha-combinations, which, constantly changing from moment to moment follow continuously one upon the other through inconceivable periods of time." Honestly, the only empirical means of proof that I am aware of is the experience of past life memories that can arise from developing deep states of meditative absorption (MN 39).

Also, what's the Buddhist take on which religions are true? IOW, if I want to find the true or a true (ie, not just made up) religion, how do that? How do I distinguish between what's real vs. what's only imagined in terms or religion, according to Buddhism?

While the Buddha said the number of things he had direct knowledge of was like the leaves in the forest, what he taught was but a handful (SN 56.31). That is because the only truth that the Buddha was concerned about was nibbana. If you want to find this truth, the Buddha said, "In any doctrine and discipline where the noble eightfold path is not found, no contemplative of the first... second... third... fourth order (i.e., stream-winner, once-returner, non-returner, or arahant) is found. But in any doctrine and discipline where the noble eightfold path is found, contemplatives of the first... second... third... fourth order are found" (DN 16).

Jason

 

[Nosaj]

Stout,

Anyways, I appreciate your response(s) and hope to play catch-up this evening.

Sure thing. Take your time, digest whatever appeals to you, and disregard the rest.

Jason

 

[Dancing David]

This is my problem with Buddhism and every other religion--for it to "work" you have to sort of turn your mind off. Which is a good idea sometimes, like for meditating. But when it comes to trying to decide which interpretation of which scripture of which branch of which religion, you're not supposed to be analytical--you're supposed to turn your brain off and let it hit you (many would say, I think).

When I've asked followers of different religions difficult questions about their religion, they usually say something like, "you're thinking too much."

Not really, it is much more like cognitive behavioral therapy, one trains ones self to change the way one interacts with the world.

You do not have to turn off your mind, you train it. You can't turn off your mind.

Meditation helps the practice, by becoming mindful one can slowly shift the habits of behavior.

 

[Dancing David]

Thank You Jason, please continue.
Thank you Jason, please continue.
Thanks you jason, please continue.

Have you thought about publishing your discourses?

I hope I do not offend you.

 

[Stout]

Whew !!! that was a lot of reading and I'm seriously regretting not making notes. Anyways, my online introduction to Buddhism has proved rather enlightening.

I previously thought of Buddhism as just another religion with all it's attendant woo, like the idea of living multiple lives in an attempt to ascend to heaven through living the "correct" lifestyle and adhering to the "correct" moral code.

My initial reasons for wanting to downplay the idea of rebirth was to see if I could shoehorn Buddhism into a strictly philosophical category with the idea that I could view rebirth as a metaphor for "getting the idea" As far as I can tell, Buddhism is alright with me doing this, if I act immorally, I don't need fear being reborn as something like a hagfish, but merely being unhappy due to my ignorance in placing importance on ideas that I only think will bring me happiness.

Not really, it is much more like cognitive behavioral therapy, one trains ones self to change the way one interacts with the world.

Bingo

Really...it all comes down to respect.

 

[Moochie]

Thanks Eilohim...I haven't been doing any reading since my last post as I lost my internet connection due to a squirrel chewing through the cable...

Evidently the Devil's work.


M.

 

[jimtron]

rankly, they don't know (at least very few do). There are many things in Buddhism which are difficult, if not impossible, to prove.

So, rebirth and the other supernatural stuff--does that require a leap of faith? I don't think reincarnation will hold up well to critical thinking.