If "partial collapse" is POSSIBLE why is "complete collapse" IMPOSSIBLE?

[CHF]

No, you don't have to have derived the calcultions yourself. I am happy for you to quote them from a scientists work.

Please show me the calculations which prove your statement.

Not really in the mood to find you calculations that you probably don't understand yourself. I suppose you can start here.

 

[JHarrow]

Not really in the mood to find you calculations that you probably don't understand yourself. I suppose you can start here.

You haven't got a clue what, if anything, backs up your statement. Totally blind faith.

You are the very antithesis of a skeptic.

"The top 20 floors of a building destroyed the bottom 90 in approximately 10 seconds? Oh some scientist recommended by a tour guide wrote some sort of paper so it must be true"

 

[Unfit4Command]

You haven't got a clue what, if anything, backs up your statement. Totally blind faith.

You are the very antithesis of a skeptic.

"The top 20 floors of a building destroyed the bottom 90 in approximately 10 seconds? Oh some scientist recommended by a tour guide wrote some sort of paper so it must be true"

The collapses of both towers were longer than 10 seconds. See this post.

 

[beachnut]

You haven't got a clue what, if anything, backs up your statement. Totally blind faith.

You are the very antithesis of a skeptic.

"The top 20 floors of a building destroyed the bottom 90 in approximately 10 seconds? Oh some scientist recommended by a tour guide wrote some sort of paper so it must be true"

Anyone who can do physics can calculate it; why are you unable to? (you also failed to read any papers; bad habit)

gv at impactnew velotime/flloortime100speed change30,000,0003.7100.000.0000.00990.0032,500,0003.7108.527.860.8690.87980.667.69%35,000,0003.71011.6010.770.3971.27970.837.14%37,500,0003.71013.7312.810.3141.58960.926.67%40,000,0003.71015.3914.430.2721.85950.966.25%42,500,0003.71016.7615.770.2452.10940.995.88%45,000,0003.71017.9216.930.2262.32931.005.56%47,500,0003.71018.9517.950.2122.53921.005.26%50,000,0003.71019.8718.880.2012.74910.995.00%52,500,0003.71020.7119.730.1922.93900.994.76%55,000,0003.71021.4920.510.1843.11890.984.55%57,500,0003.71022.2121.240.1773.29880.974.35%60,000,0003.71022.8921.940.1713.46870.954.17%62,500,0003.71023.5322.590.1663.63860.944.00%65,000,0003.71024.1423.220.1623.79850.933.85%67,500,0003.71024.7323.810.1573.94840.923.70%70,000,0003.71025.2924.390.1544.10830.903.57%72,500,0003.71025.8324.940.1504.25820.893.45%75,000,0003.71026.3625.480.1474.40810.883.33%77,500,0003.71026.8726.000.1444.54800.873.23%80,000,0003.71027.3626.510.1414.68790.863.13%82,500,0003.71027.8427.000.1384.82780.843.03%85,000,0003.71028.3127.480.1364.95770.832.94%87,500,0003.71028.7727.950.1345.09760.822.86%90,000,0003.71029.2228.400.1315.22750.812.78%92,500,0003.71029.6528.850.1295.35740.802.70%95,000,0003.71030.0929.290.1275.48730.792.63%97,500,0003.71030.5129.730.1255.60720.782.56%100,000,0003.71030.9230.150.1245.72710.772.50%102,500,0003.71031.3330.570.1225.85700.762.44%105,000,0003.71031.7330.980.1205.97690.762.38%107,500,0003.71032.1331.380.1196.09680.752.33%110,000,0003.71032.5231.780.1176.20670.742.27%112,500,0003.71032.9032.170.1166.32660.732.22%115,000,0003.71033.2832.550.1146.43650.722.17%117,500,0003.71033.6532.930.1136.55640.722.13%120,000,0003.71034.0233.310.1126.66630.712.08%122,500,0003.71034.3833.680.1106.77620.702.04%125,000,0003.71034.7434.050.1096.88610.692.00%127,500,0003.71035.1034.410.1086.98600.691.96%130,000,0003.71035.4534.770.1077.09590.681.92%132,500,0003.71035.7935.120.1067.20580.681.89%135,000,0003.71036.1435.470.1057.30570.671.85%137,500,0003.71036.4835.810.1047.41560.661.82%140,000,0003.71036.8136.160.1037.51550.661.79%142,500,0003.71037.1536.500.1027.61540.651.75%145,000,0003.71037.4836.830.1017.71530.651.72%147,500,0003.71037.8037.160.1007.81520.641.69%150,000,0003.71038.1337.490.0997.91510.641.67%152,500,0003.71038.4537.820.0988.01500.631.64%155,000,0003.71038.7638.140.0978.11490.631.61%157,500,0003.71039.0838.460.0978.20480.621.59%160,000,0003.71039.3938.780.0968.30470.621.56%162,500,0003.71039.7039.090.0958.39460.611.54%165,000,0003.71040.0139.400.0948.49450.611.52%167,500,0003.71040.3139.710.0948.58440.601.49%170,000,0003.71040.6140.020.0938.67430.601.47%172,500,0003.71040.9140.320.0928.77420.591.45%175,000,0003.71041.2140.620.0918.86410.591.43%177,500,0003.71041.5140.920.0918.95400.581.41%180,000,0003.71041.8041.220.0909.04390.581.39%182,500,0003.71042.0941.510.0899.13380.581.37%185,000,0003.71042.3841.810.0899.22370.571.35%187,500,0003.71042.6742.100.0889.31360.571.33%190,000,0003.71042.9542.390.0889.39350.571.32%192,500,0003.71043.2342.670.0879.48340.561.30%195,000,0003.71043.5142.960.0869.57330.561.28%197,500,0003.71043.7943.240.0869.65320.551.27%200,000,0003.71044.0743.520.0859.74310.551.25%202,500,0003.71044.3543.800.0859.82300.551.23%205,000,0003.71044.6244.080.0849.91290.541.22%207,500,0003.71044.8944.350.0849.99280.541.20%210,000,0003.71045.1644.620.08310.07270.541.19%212,500,0003.71045.4344.900.08310.16260.531.18%215,000,0003.71045.7045.170.08210.24250.531.16%217,500,0003.71045.9645.430.08210.32240.531.15%220,000,0003.71046.2345.700.08110.40230.531.14%222,500,0003.71046.4945.970.08110.48220.521.12%225,000,0003.71046.7546.230.08010.56210.521.11%227,500,0003.71047.0146.490.08010.64200.521.10%230,000,0003.71047.2746.750.07910.72190.511.09%232,500,0003.71047.5247.010.07910.80180.511.08%235,000,0003.71047.7847.270.07810.88170.511.06%237,500,0003.71048.0347.520.07810.96160.511.05%240,000,0003.71048.2847.780.07811.03150.501.04%242,500,0003.71048.5348.030.07711.11140.501.03%245,000,0003.71048.7848.280.07711.19130.501.02%247,500,0003.71049.0348.540.07611.27120.501.01%250,000,0003.71049.2848.780.07611.34110.491.00%252,500,0003.71049.5249.030.07611.42100.490.99%255,000,0003.71049.7749.280.07511.4990.490.98%257,500,0003.71050.0149.530.07511.5780.490.97%260,000,0003.71050.2549.770.07511.6470.480.96%262,500,0003.71050.4950.010.07411.7260.480.95%265,000,0003.71050.7350.250.07411.7950.480.94%267,500,0003.71050.9750.500.07311.8640.480.93%270,000,0003.71051.2150.740.07311.9430.470.93%272,500,0003.71051.4550.970.07312.0120.470.92%275,000,0003.71051.6851.210.07212.0810.470.91%

oops 12.08 seconds; darn your 10 seconds is off! darn...

 

[CHF]

You haven't got a clue what, if anything, backs up your statement. Totally blind faith.

You are the very antithesis of a skeptic.

"The top 20 floors of a building destroyed the bottom 90 in approximately 10 seconds? Oh some scientist recommended by a tour guide wrote some sort of paper so it must be true"

Yeah I suppose I do have faith in experts who subject their work to peer-review in scientific journals. Sorry if I can't be bothered hunting down calculations for some on-line kook at 2am.

I'd ask who you trust on the WTC collapses, but I don't feel like looking up rebuttal's of Gordon Ross right now.

 

[JHarrow]

Yeah I suppose I do have faith in experts who subject their work to peer-review in scientific journals. Sorry if I can't be bothered hunting down calculations for some on-line kook at 2am.

I'd ask who you trust on the WTC collapses, but I don't feel like looking up rebuttal's of Gordon Ross right now.

Ah yes, whenever you are losing rely on insults like online kook. I do hope the lurkers are watching.

 

[CHF]

Ah yes, whenever you are losing rely on insults like online kook. I do hope the lurkers are watching.

You asked for calculations and you were linked to a couple papers where you could find em.

If that's what you call winning then take a bow, son.

 

[JHarrow]

You asked for calculations and you were linked to a couple papers where you could find em.

If that's what you call winning then take a bow, son.

So you weren't losing but still came the insults. Even worse!

Try anger management.

 

[Arus808]

yes the lurkers are watching Jharrow, wathching you squirm like you always do when confronted with facts.

lurkers - Jharrow is ignoring the EXPERT testimony of those who are EXPERTS in their field of study, and their calculations.

Of course, he dismisses their calculations, and call us relying on "blind" faith of these calculations. Yeah, we blindly trust the calcuations of papers published in RESPECTED peer review journa, and HE relies on teh calculations of those who had to publish in a SHAM group, that had to CREATE their own "journal" just so they can say they are "peer-reviewed". Now , would you consider a theologian a peer when it comes to a paper discussing structural engineering?

 

[JHarrow]

yes the lurkers are watching Jharrow, wathching you squirm like you always do when confronted with facts.

lurkers - Jharrow is ignoring the EXPERT testimony of those who are EXPERTS in their field of study, and their calculations.

Of course, he dismisses their calculations, and call us relying on "blind" faith of these calculations. Yeah, we blindly trust the calcuations of papers published in RESPECTED peer review journa, and HE relies on teh calculations of those who had to publish in a SHAM group, that had to CREATE their own "journal" just so they can say they are "peer-reviewed". Now , would you consider a theologian a peer when it comes to a paper discussing structural engineering?

Please present evidence that a Theologian has peer reviewed a structural engineering paper in that journal, or admit it is just another of your lies.

 

[Unfit4Command]

Ah yes, whenever you are losing rely on insults like online kook. I do hope the lurkers are watching.

You keep asking people here to back up their assertions, we have, we've linked to scientific papers from Bazant and others, and shown that neither one of the Twin Towers collapsed at free-fall speeds. Now, time for you to back up your assertion that the Twin Towers collapsed in "approximately 10 seconds."

Could you please show a video that shows either one of the Twin Towers collapsing in 10 seconds? I can't seem to find one.

 

[Arus808]

Please present evidence that a Theologian has peer reviewed a structural engineering paper in that journal, or admit it is just another of your lies.

Wow, are you that clueless that you dont know about JONES? searc this forum. and not its not a lie. you seem to not understand what "lie" is as you keep on throwing out that word, when facts and truth are being stated.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Debunkers keep arguing that the zone created around 7 showed that they knew it would collapse. This is untrue since collapse zones are standard round all high rise fires.

Now you are the one who is lying, JHarrow.

The firefighters on the ground did predict the collpase. They knew it was coming down just from looking at it.



It's definitely coming down... there's no way to stop it. Because you have to go up in there to put it out and the structural integrity isn't there.

Do you understand what "there's no way to stop it" means, JHarrow? If all one had to do to keep WTC7 standing was simply not push the big red button, "there's no way to stop it" wouldn't be a true statement, would it?

Still waiting for you to apologize for lying about what the firefighters knew, JHarrow.

 

[JHarrow]

You keep asking people here to back up their assertions, we have, we've linked to scientific papers from Bazant and others, and shown that neither one of the Twin Towers collapsed at free-fall speeds. Now, time for you to back up your assertion that the Twin Towers collapsed in "approximately 10 seconds."

Could you please show a video that shows either one of the Twin Towers collapsing in 10 seconds? I can't seem to find one.

Oh I didn't bother with youtube. I went straight to the horses mouth.

The 911 Commission says both towers fell in approx 10 seconds. NIST says the upper block of the towers fell in essentially freefall.

 

[Arus808]

whic proves that you didn't understand the mission of hte 911 comission (hint its not an engineering report) and "essentially" has a very vague meaning. You might want to contact NIST to get a clear meaning of that statement.

 

[beachnut]

Please present evidence that a Theologian has peer reviewed a structural engineering paper in that journal, or admit it is just another of your lies.

I think you have made a great point by accident! There are no structural engineering papers in the journal of woo! They are all politically biased junk based on false information and faulty calculations; you should have read them and gone to engineering school, or studied more. Even a layperson can see how stupid the papers are at the woo journal.

But as usual I think DRG has peer reviewed some of what passes in the woo journal for/as structural engineering papers. Could you point out the papers that are? Bet you can't, can you?

The truth is the woo journal is not a real peer review journal except for a few idiots in "9/11 truth". That is what I heard. What do you think?

Can you point out a single paper that was peer reviewed in the woo journal and who reviewed it?

 

[beachnut]

Oh I didn't bother with youtube. I went straight to the horses mouth.

The 911 Commission says both towers fell in approx 10 seconds. NIST says the upper block of the towers fell in essentially freefall.

Hi rob.

 

[chillzero]

Stop bickering please. To support l337m4n in his brave attempts to keep this thread on topic, I am prepared to put the thread on moderated status. There are plenty of other threads about the timings and mechanics of the event, and l337m4n is trying to address a specific point here. Any further off topic wanderings will be moved out, and the thread placed on moderated status.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: chillzero

 

[MRC_Hans]

I'd like to point out one additional point:
The spaghettis will fail when >30 are left only if the load is evenly re-distributed between the strands each time a spaghetti fails (Why always spaghetti? It's bland and tasteless.).
If the load is not re-distriduted equally across the remaining strands, then one strand will reach failure before the others.
This will result in a rapid chain-reaction of failures.

And this is only a simplified case with no interdependancy.

Yes, of course. Except you mean <30 . Obviously, progressive failure can start much earlier when the load is unevenly distributed, which it will nearly always be IRL.


Spaghetty bland and tasteless? You offend the FSM! Burn the heretic!

Hans

 

[GStan]

Are you going to explain how the dynamic force allowed 20 stories to fall through 90 stories essentially in freefall?

Stating it this way may make it sound logically difficult or even impossible to a non-engineer, but your being misleading. The top 20 stories need only enough force to fall through the 90th floor, one floor, that's it. If the 90th floor cannot resist the mass of the top 20, the entire building is likely to collapse, because the 89th floor will have even less ability to resist the mass of the top 21 floors, and so on. There is no argument to be made against the progressive collapse unless you can show how the many peer-reviewed scientific journal articles that have been linked for you have incorrectly explained the initial failure. Take a cue from GUrich or Christopher7, who at least read the reports they are attempting to refute.