Merged Has this structural engineer been debunked? / Astaneh-Asl "melting of girders"

[Sizzler]

I'm late to the party...

Would I be incorrect in summarizing this thread as follows:

• Truth Movement types just now find out about Dr. Astaneh-Asl
• Truth Movement decides his position sounds contraoversial and asks us to "Debunk" it
• Truth Movement has no idea what the NIST report actually contains
• Truth Movement does not understand the subtle differences bewteen Dr. Astaneh-Asl and NIST
• JREF posters inform Truth Movement of this
• Truth Movement still doesn't get it

Again, I apologize if I've got that wrong.

There's nothing to debunk. His position is dissenting but is also reasonable. It's not too far removed from other dissenting opinions from Purdue, Arup, and U Edinburgh, for instance. We know this (well, I know this) because I've actually read all those positions. I've also written about it and highlighted the differences.

What's the problem here?

Melted steel is reported.

 

[WildCat]

What's the problem here?

Apparently, because there's really no way of knowing with 100% certainty the exact collapse mode it means OMGINSIDEJOB!!!111!1

At least to the cognitively impaired.

 

[R.Mackey]

Melted steel is reported.

Oh geez, not this again. No, it's not. Nor is vaporized steel reported. Remember our discussions on "eutectic?"

Quote mining, on the other hand, is reported.

Dr. Astaneh-Asl by the way, regardless of what you think he said, thinks you guys are nuts.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Lee Report reports melted steel.

Link in OP reports melted steel.

That's not what he requested of you. What tests were done to determine that the molten metal observed was actually steel?

 

[RedIbis]

Just so I'm clear.
Red quotes an engineer and wants his quote debunked.

Correct. Especially the part where he says:

"If you remember the Salvador Dali paintings with the clocks that are kind of melted--it's kind of like that." He added, "That could only happen if you get steel yellow hot or white hot--perhaps around 2,000 degrees." [6]
• In an interview in 2007, Astaneh-Asl recalled, "I saw melting of girders in [the] World Trade Center." [7]

JHarrow chimes in with basically, yeah, debunk it

Ok, so?

Sizzler enters another thread just asking questions.

Why are you surprised people would have questions abouts Astaneh-Asl's observations?

Turns out the engineer contributed to the NIST report.

So?

Turns out the engineer supports the NIST report.

Since it's so inconclusive, what does that prove?

JHarrow, doing his best zensmack and LastChild impression starts his nonsensical one liners.

Don't hesitate to focus on the observations at hand.

Sizzler keeps asking questions

Perhaps, because no one has been able to conclusively explain the observations.

Red disappears

I can't devote long periods of time posting on jref. I enjoy the site, find it immeasurably educational, but I do have many responsibilities that occupy my time. It's a bit obnoxious to assume that any poster can be glued to these debates and respond on your schedule.

Seriously, why does this continue, isn't there a mercy rule, a 10 run rule, someone with a net to stop this?

Because instead of addressing the observations described in the OP, you chose to bicker and make generalizations about the people with whom you disagree.

 

[WildCat]

Correct. Especially the part where he says:

"If you remember the Salvador Dali paintings with the clocks that are kind of melted--it's kind of like that." He added, "That could only happen if you get steel yellow hot or white hot--perhaps around 2,000 degrees." [6]
• In an interview in 2007, Astaneh-Asl recalled, "I saw melting of girders in [the] World Trade Center." [7]

So he is calling "yellow or white-hot" steel melted. At 2,000 degrees F.

Now, this is unusual how exactly?

 

[Sizzler]

Oh geez, not this again. No, it's not. Nor is vaporized steel reported. Remember our discussions on "eutectic?"

Quote mining, on the other hand, is reported.

Dr. Astaneh-Asl by the way, regardless of what you think he said, thinks you guys are nuts.

"I saw melting of girders in [the] World Trade Center." [7]

 

[Sizzler]

That's not what he requested of you. What tests were done to determine that the molten metal observed was actually steel?

In an interview in 2007, Astaneh-Asl recalled, "I saw melting of girders in [the] World Trade Center." [7]

 

[RedIbis]

Oh geez, not this again. No, it's not. Nor is vaporized steel reported. Remember our discussions on "eutectic?"

Quote mining, on the other hand, is reported.

Dr. Astaneh-Asl by the way, regardless of what you think he said, thinks you guys are nuts.

Incorrect. Yes it is reported. Granted, reporting that steel melted or vaporized does not mean that's what happened, but it was reported, specifically by Astaneh-Asl.

 

[cisco]

The Jihadists are proud. But the CIA who puppeteer them are even prouder.

So you admit Mohammed Atta killed hundreds of innocent people and you still keep him as your avatar? Disgusting.

If you're so sure the CIA did this why don't you man up and start naming some names so we can get a libel lawsuit going? If you're right it will come out in court and you'll have single-handedly brought the NWO (or whoever your pet boogeyman is) crashing down.

 

[R.Mackey]

I find it extraordinarily interesting that RedIbis is defending a claim that steel temperatures reached 2000^oF, or about 1100^oC -- a temperature wholly consistent with the NIST report...

... while over here, realcddeal is vigorously opposing the notion that steel could have gotten nearly that hot.

Make Up Your Minds already!

This is why you guys need to formulate a hypothesis. No more excuses. Do it. It will clear your mind enormously.

 

[R.Mackey]

"I saw melting of girders in [the] World Trade Center." [7]

In an interview in 2007, Astaneh-Asl recalled, "I saw melting of girders in [the] World Trade Center." [7]

Incorrect. Yes it is reported. Granted, reporting that steel melted or vaporized does not mean that's what happened, but it was reported, specifically by Astaneh-Asl.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong. The two statements do not imply the third.

Melting of girders, perhaps. But only melting of eutectics.

Dr. Astaneh-Asl's other comments make it crystal clear that he does not believe temperatures ever existed to melt steel. Steel-sulfur compounds, yes. Steel, no.

Contact him if you don't believe me.

 

[Sizzler]

I find it extraordinarily interesting that RedIbis is defending a claim that steel temperatures reached 2000^oF, or about 1100^oC -- a temperature wholly consistent with the NIST report...

... while over here, realcddeal is vigorously opposing the notion that steel could have gotten nearly that hot.

Make Up Your Minds already!

This is why you guys need to formulate a hypothesis. No more excuses. Do it. It will clear your mind enormously.

address this mackey:

In an interview in 2007, Astaneh-Asl recalled, "I saw melting of girders in [the] World Trade Center." [7]

Girders were made of steel, correct?

 

[T.A.M.]

I find it extraordinarily interesting that RedIbis is defending a claim that steel temperatures reached 2000^oF, or about 1100^oC -- a temperature wholly consistent with the NIST report...

... while over here, realcddeal is vigorously opposing the notion that steel could have gotten nearly that hot.

Make Up Your Minds already!

This is why you guys need to formulate a hypothesis. No more excuses. Do it. It will clear your mind enormously.

They don't have to agree, or be unified, they just have to keep looking for loose ends to pull from the cloth...they do not care whether the ends lead to something of significance (which they do not), or simply end the second they pull on them.

And that is your daily Metaphor.

TAM

 

[cisco]

Red Ibis please respond to post #44.

 

[cisco]

Sizzler are the clocks in the Dali painting melting? Are they molten?

 

[R.Mackey]

address this mackey:

Girders were made of steel, correct?

Were, yes. Some underwent chemical change.

I know you're familiar with the work of Drs. Barnett and Biederman. They're talking about the same pieces.

Mystery Solved!

 

[Furcifer]

In an interview in 2007, Astaneh-Asl recalled, "I saw melting of girders in [the] World Trade Center." [7]

An ambiguous statement at best. What is melting of girders? Where they in a molten state? Glowing red and bent? Or just what appeared to him as steel girders that had been heated and bent?

In this case a picture is worth a thousand words. Got one?

 

[Sizzler]

Were, yes. Some underwent chemical change.

I know you're familiar with the work of Drs. Barnett and Biederman. They're talking about the same pieces.

Mystery Solved!

You spoke too soon and I'm going to prove you wrong MAckey.......

 

[RedIbis]

I can say with 100% honesty and integrity that I have never seen or heard any factual, logical, or evidentiary data that makes me suspect anything other than the popular account of the events of 9/11 took place. Scouts honor. I'd swear and sign my name to it.

Can you say the same about the trooth?

No. I cannot say that I 100% know the twoofy twoof. You would have done better to leave this alone.

Do you think the official story is falsifiable?

If you don't answer this question, I will do something I've never done and obnoxiously hound you to answer it, as you have done to me.