Anonymous a internet sociological phenomenon?

I believe this is representative of the efforts being undertaken by the majority of Anonymous still involved in this project (it was certainly along the lines of what I witnessed at my local protest on the 10th):

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2zwtJrGrn7w

I'm not sure what more they can do to demonstrate that the majority are a) serious about this and b) not a "hate group".
 
In all honesty that lady is just going to look for the next ideology to follow which may be just as crazy as Scientology, who will be there to save her from that?

IMO, Anon is really just cherry picking what they find to be 'corrupt'. If you look deep enough into any religion you can find corruption.
 
In all honesty that lady is just going to look for the next ideology to follow which may be just as crazy as Scientology, who will be there to save her from that?
Oh that's nice. Just go ahead and imply that a person you know absolutely nothing about is gullible and emotionally weak.

She wasn't a Scientologist yet. She hadn't gotten deep enough for the brain washing to take place. She was still at the stage where what Scientology offers is actually pretty good stuff that really works. That's one of the bad things about the Co$. They pull a bait and switch where the initiates are given good advice, but once they invest a certain amount of time and money then the cult aspect comes out.

IMO, Anon is really just cherry picking what they find to be 'corrupt'. If you look deep enough into any religion you can find corruption.
Of course you can find corruption in other religions. Ask yourself this though, how many of those religious organizations are as corrupt as the Co$ is right now? Do you really want a church that was founded on a basis of corruption and greed to continue growing and gain legitimacy?

As for the cherry picking part, I can't see it that way. The Co$ was not picked from a list of religions to attack. It was picked because they specifically did something that pissed off Anonymous, which then snowballed into what it is now. It just happened naturally.
 
I'm not sure I have much more to add that Big Les hasn't, but I wanted to voice my feelings are much akin to his. You can't just substitute anything else with Scientology and come up with something remotely close. They call themselves a religion, that doesn't mean it's so, and it doesn't mean hating a very evil organization is wrong.

As for Anonymous, I'm still not sure. I can't help but think it's all going to die out with a whimper, but I'd love to be proved wrong. I may be cynical, but I just can't imagine seeing how this can work beyond a couple (err, well..) lulz. I find it strange that someone can do a great deal of work for a cause and get no recognition. I understand that's the idea, but that doesn't convince me it has any staying power. Perhaps I have a dim view on humanity, or perhaps this is really is a flash in the pan.

But, regardless, what has happened so far I enjoy. Those protests actually turned out a good number. I hope they repeat. I'd have nothing against Anonymous going after Scientology, not just the Church of Scientology, because I don't see how you can remove them so easily as it all stems from L. Ron's directives. But, in any event, the Church of Scientology is an entity that I would dearly like to see stopped or at least hindered, and for that Anonymous is just alright with me. (To borrow a phrase from the Doobies...)

If Anonymous is cherry picking, they're picking the ripest. You may find corruption in other "religions" but I'll eat my hat if you find one that compares with what Scientology does.
 
RULES 1&2! we all know its actually ebaumsworld!!!1

but srsly... i like 4chan and anonymous. this thread still sucks HARD though. ugh. 'irl standalone complex' please, the guys making the youtubes about scientology count as leaders because they started the whole thing. its kind of pointless to discuss anonymous because anonymous will latch onto a meme and embrace it when an hour before the same thing was rejected hard. the group changes too much to say much of anything about it.
 
Hey I'm always up for a good dva1d vs g0liath protest. Gettin my avatar ready for the 15th. 800yah!

106147bd1abbf2674.jpg
 
Of course it should be pointed out that Anonymous is a very heterogenous entity. I consider myself a part of Anonymous (in that I post on 4chan, (although I avoid /b/ like hell) and think there is a time and place for lulz), but I am generally against much of the more explicitly trollish side, and even for basically benign things like this I sometimes feel a sort of awkward "cultural cringe" for seeing Anonymous out and about in the world. To identify Anonymous with the loudest dicks is unfair.
 
In all honesty that lady is just going to look for the next ideology to follow which may be just as crazy as Scientology, who will be there to save her from that?

You could apply the same laissez-faire argument to literally anything that's discussed here. Why try and prevent people from visiting psychics? From using homoeopathy? From believing conspiracy theories?

What's wrong with a group of people identifying something wrong in the world and trying to do something about it? This whole thing started as a childish knee-jerk reaction to spoiled fun, but is instead becoming a focus for both pre-existing and new outrage at what the Co$ has done, and continues to do.

IMO, Anon is really just cherry picking what they find to be 'corrupt'. If you look deep enough into any religion you can find corruption.

I have to ask you how much you've read about the Co$? It's only a religion per se in the US and Australia, and then this status was only obtained for tax breaks. It's a money-making power-wielding exercise, nothing more.

And yet, ironically enough, it actually seems to ape the methods and behaviour of established religions, back when the original ideas had wandered, individuals were in charge who wanted money and power, and there were no checks and balances there to hold them back. It wants to be the Christian church of about 1500AD - absolute authority, control of government, control of medicine, of morality, massive wealth, etc etc.

Of course Christianity or any other mainstream religion has a history of corruption, money-grabbing, abuse of authority etc etc. No doubt elements of them still would like to. The point is that they have either reformed themselves or been forced to do so along the lines of prevailing ideas in society about what's right and appropriate. Sharp eyes are kept on them and their influence in society is reduced as far as possible to personal choice and individual belief.

The Co$ flies in the face of those ideas. At best it pushes pseudoscience to people who have severely limited choices, and at worst it destroys people's lives. You don't have to believe the more lurid anecdotal evidence to get a grasp of just how much worse they are than any comparable group that's styled a religion (or is actually one). Compare them with Wicca, or even Mormonism.

I can understand reservations about a group like Anonymous, and there is certainly a danger of hubris, of declining interest, and no doubt there are people out there who want nothing more than to persecute people different from them. They are easily able to associate themselves with a group like this, because anyone can. You could argue that people like me are aligning with them as a sort of marriage of convenience, but I have been very sceptical of the group all along the way. It was only when I saw them standing peacefully, trying to engage with the public and obviously knowing their stuff and caring about the issue that I realised a significant number of these people are intelligent and socially responsible. Scepticism is certainly lacking, but that's true of most people, as we know all too well. To anyone critical of Co$ but still not convinced by Anonymous - time will tell.

In any case, please, don't reject the very valid criticisms of Scientology simply because you don't like the idea of internet "mobs" originating within subcultures you find distasteful.
 
I consider myself a part of Anonymous (in that I post on 4chan, (although I avoid /b/ like hell) and think there is a time and place for lulz), but I am generally against much of the more explicitly trollish side

So you're not a true anon then. Shame.
Unless you've been banned from Habbo more than once..:rolleyes:
 
The belief that the "Anonymous" group has no leaders is ridiculous. It is what they want us to believe as it is more difficult to place responsability on someone if something goes wrong.
Of course, this group has leaders, somebody had to come up with the idea of calling themselves "anonymous", someone decided to upload threatening videos on youtube, etc.
I don´t like them at all, they use confrontation instead of reason. Why don´t they start a massive campaigne agaist catholicism?
 
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The belief that the "Anonymous" group has no leaders is ridiculous. It is what they want us to believe as it is more difficult to place responsability on someone if something goes wrong.
Of course, this group has leaders, somebody had to come up with the idea of calling themselves "anonymous", someone decided to upload threatening videos on youtube, etc.
I don´t like them at all, they use confrontation instead of reason. Why don´t they start a massive campaigne agaist catholicism?

It's obvious there's someone somewhere that has come up with the idea to wear those masks, the date to protest, etc etc. But, pray tell, who? "Anonymous4232"? That's more to the point, along with the idea that when one comes up with the idea of, say, spray painting Xenu somewhere, they get shouted down by the hive mind. I'm not saying they're a gift of enlightenment or super heroes or something, but I don't think you quite understand.

And, I think it's perfectly reasonable to hold peaceful demonstration against the Church of Scientology. And when it becomes papal direction for the Catholic church to "advise" (read: force) its members to disconnect from family, commit suicide, have abortions they don't want, and pay and pay and pay for church "teachings" then perhaps your analogy will be relevant.
 
The belief that the "Anonymous" group has no leaders is ridiculous.

It's certainly proving difficult for Scientology to comprehend and defend against. Is it so hard to believe that a loose affiliation of people with a common cause are able to co-ordinate without leadership?

It's the closest thing to an autonomous collective that I've ever seen. Any time any one person even looks like trying to assert their will over the group, they are shouted down. It's not just part of the origin ethos of the group - it's common sense. They don't want to allow Scientology to fight on their own terms, which is how they have survived this long as a scam.

It is what they want us to believe as it is more difficult to place responsability on someone if something goes wrong.

I won't deny - that is convenient for them. Anything that's bad PR can (legitimately) be put down to the actions of an individual or minority. That's just the way it is - people are aligning behind an idea, not a traditional organisation of any kind. "Anonymous" doesn't exist, and yet it has the potential to be the greatest threat the Co$ has ever faced.

Of course, this group has leaders, somebody had to come up with the idea of calling themselves "anonymous", someone decided to upload threatening videos on youtube, etc.

You really don't get this, do you? I suggest you do some more research. The name came about organically. Whoever posted the first video was simply an agent for a group consensus. Call them a "leader" if you like, go after them if you can. There are many more people creating and uploading videos like that, using common themes and styles, but totally independent of each other. Everything works by consensus - someone suggests something, and if a majority agree, it gets done - the methods, the identity, all of it.

I don´t like them at all, they use confrontation instead of reason.

Do you call youtube videos, internet criticism and peaceful protest "confrontation"? Prank calls and DDOS attacks as used by the first wave of outraged and ignorant members are now being (rightly) condemned by a majority as counter-productive and inappropriate.

Why don´t they start a massive campaigne agaist catholicism?

Non-sequitur much? Scientology started this mess by poking an internet hornet's nest. That's "why Scientology" in fundamental terms. Now it's expanded to embrace just about all critics, everywhere, just about all members recognise that though elements of mainstream religion are controversial and even undesirable, Scientology is in a league of its own when it comes to dubious practices. And unlike those religions, it has singularly failed to react and change along with fair criticism.
 
Big Les,
Read that article written by M. Shermer. I agree with him.
The guy running the website Xenu seems like a real honorable person to me. He is not a coward hiding behind anonymity, he provides information so people can make up their minds without inciting to violence.
 
Big Les,
Read that article written by M. Shermer. I agree with him.

Did you read the whole thing? IMO he's saying that *if* the Anonymous message had been aimed at a traditional religious or ethnic group, it would have overtones of fascism. He then goes on to outline why many people don't see the church that way.

The guy running the website Xenu seems like a real honorable person to me. He is not a coward hiding behind anonymity,

No indeed, and he's suffered a great deal of persecution at the hands of the Co$ as a result of his bravery. The anonymity is a counter-tactic to the sort of harassment that traditional critics have suffered. I would point out that a single person using anonymity will lack credibility. A group of 9000 people uniting under a common cause have no need of individual identification, and anyone that does break this cover risks harassment. It's already happening to those who have tried to emulate past critics by putting their private lives, families, and jobs on the line.

he provides information so people can make up their minds without inciting to violence.

Inciting to violence? What are you talking about about/basing that on?
 
Inciting to violence? What are you talking about about/basing that on?

Ok. they don´t incite to violence, but they do incite to confrontation. I am a peaceful person and I don´t see why I should impose my beliefs or lack of beliefs on other people.

I wouldn´t like a bunch of people trying to silence me over my beliefs on evolution or unicorns, or whatever you want to believe. Personally, I think catholics and muslims are doing more damage to this world than scientologists, which by the way represent only a tiny minority. They are not blowing themselves, they haven´t been accused of massively abusing children, they are not burning witches, so what the hell?
 
Ok. they don´t incite to violence, but they do incite to confrontation. I am a peaceful person and I don´t see why I should impose my beliefs or lack of beliefs on other people.

Are you talking about Anonymous or Scientology? Check out some of the videos on xenutv.com if you want to see some classic Scientology confrontation. I also don't see what Anonymous has done to incite confrontation, as Scientology did their best to just ignore the protests, apart from making some stuff up about them to the press.

I wouldn´t like a bunch of people trying to silence me over my beliefs on evolution or unicorns, or whatever you want to believe. Personally, I think catholics and muslims are doing more damage to this world than scientologists, which by the way represent only a tiny minority. They are not blowing themselves, they haven´t been accused of massively abusing children, they are not burning witches, so what the hell?

Then you clearly don't know what Anonymous is doing. They aren't protesting the beliefs, but the "church." They're even quite supportive of Free Zoners. Have a look here.

And you're only partially correct, they aren't blowing themselves up and burning witches, but they are massively abusing children, among other things. See the Woodcraft family's account on xenutv.com; Zoe in particular as she was practically raised as a child in Scientology. The reason they haven't done more damage to the world than other religions might simply be because of their size, not their aims or intent (which, by the way, is to Clear the entire planet).
 
As for xenu.net's webmaster having a preferable approach; since the core group of anti-Co$ Anonymous proved it could protest and engage in activism peacefully, he (and many other high profile existing critics), has come out in support of Anonymous.
 

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