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My theoretical framework

PixyMisa said:
Since you have utterly failed to address any of the problems pointed out with respect to the original post, I take it that this bald assertion is but a preface to a new and rigorous discussion of the apparent flaws in your position?
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Considering that in your first post in this thread you said it was like materialism but using "obscure sentences", seems strange that you point any SUPPOSED problem...

(there are non, btw, I realized that the problems are just about communication, as I hope its clear when I finish this round of posts)
 
schlitt said:
So knowing that conciousness is nothing more than the result of physical interactions of matter which exists independently of the concious result. What is your explanation, other than materialism?
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Naturalism (maybe a form of instrumentalism) without making a commitment with any "final substance". Identical in any other way with some forms of materialism as understood by some members of this forum.
 
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Phaedrus74 said:
Sorry, I should have formulated more clearly, I was wondering how BDZ's position leads to a priviliged position of consciousness...
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Not privileged, but unavoidable. By definition, your world (phenomenologically) is your only contact with reality. Other than that, consciousness is not "a thing" in itself, everything indicates that it is instantiated by the same set of rules that are "behind" the phenomenal world (some call "what is behind" material).
 
Phaedrus74 said:
His second formulation (in response to schlitt) does much to mitigate this problem, but I am afraid it maybe too late to salvage the discussion.
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Yes, for the ones who have left. Still, for me, has been a formidable lesson, I'm glad I took this road. I know now a way to finish the endless semantic quibbling that arouses in most discussions. ;)
 
Piggy said:
My fault, then. I admit, I glossed over a lot of the discussion that appeared tangential to the points I was interested in or appeared to be sniping and reaction to sniping -- at least, sniping that wasn't mine -- so my apologies.

As for those cervezas, if you can make it out here to my neck of the woods I'll take you over to La Hacienda for some authentic Mexican food and beer colder than your ex-wife's heart.
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Hey, I do the same thing all the time and have had to apologize more than once.

Being from Texas originally and stuck in Ohio now La Hacienda sounds great to me. No one here has any idea what authentic Mexican food even looks like.

Sorry, only the one wife, though.
 
Phaedrus74 said:
:DThanks for taking the heat Bodhi, in the course of this thread I have had to use some nearly atrophied brain-musculature... See you around....
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Hehe, I know what you mean.. still, I believe we ALL love to think and good arguments, thats why we are here. (at least this describes me)

volatile said:
Do you disagree that matter is prior to the noumenon? Wasp and Pheadrus seemed to want to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you didn't. This is what we all mean when we said you weren't being clear.
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I disagree. Still, I NOW UNDERSTAND WHY. You and I have been using OPPOSITE definitions of noumena. Thats all.
 
Ichneumonwasp said:
Being from Texas originally and stuck in Ohio now La Hacienda sounds great to me. No one here has any idea what authentic Mexican food even looks like.
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La Hacienda is as authentic as it gets around here. No cabrito, I'm afraid -- the rednecks won't have it. However, I do know some places in N. Florida where you can get that.

(My father was a Border Patrolman, btw. My eldest brother grew up in Eagle Pass and environs.)

The best thing outta Texas is their pickers, though. Billy Joe Shaver, Jimmy Dale Gilmore, The Ex-Husbands, Guy Clarke... can't beat it!
 
volatile said:
As I read Kant, the noumenon is the object in the world in the mind; the material object is prior to this noumeal construction. To repeat - "otherwise we should be landed in the absurd conclusion that there can be appearance without anything that appears."
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As I said, FINALLY I understand why you were so insistent. You were holding a COMPLETELY OPPOSED view of what I call "noumena". My Kant days are gone, about ten years I read his more important works, but it is my firm idea that, for him, "noumena" is the thing as what it is BEFORE perception. A phenomena, on the other hand is the thing as IT APPEARS TO US.

I hope this is clear enough, and you will see that all your critics were based on this misunderstanding.
 
tsig said:
BDZ seems to be arguing that the territory is not the territory.
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Nope. I have repeatedly stated that all we can do are maps, and that our maps are not, and can't be (by definition) the territory. I also have expressed my belief in that it is futile to attempt to describe the territory (for example, stating that it is "matter") and that I choose to stop at the facts.

In other words, we don't need to "know"* the stuff "that facts are made of", just to know when and how they are going to happen.

*I believe it is a semantic game, completely irrelevant for science for instance.
 
schlitt said:
I know you realize what i am about to say; When people disagree it does not necessarily involve any emotion, or lack of respect. I hope you see this is the case with my discussions with you. I am more interesting in trying to understand where you are coming from, so that i can contrast this position with my own, once it is fully understood. (same goes for any discussion i have)
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Thanks. I believe you are a gentleman.
 
Nick227 said:
Hi BDZ,

Might I ask you....do you find that discussing these things so vigorously lessens the identification with the ideas and concepts you express? I'm interested.

Nick
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Not sure about what you asked. If I believe that we end attacking and defending our positions (and egos) instead of keep trying to understand each other? Yes, to an extent. But as you can see, things are way cooler now ;)
 
Piggy said:
My fault, then. I admit, I glossed over a lot of the discussion that appeared tangential to the points I was interested in or appeared to be sniping and reaction to sniping -- at least, sniping that wasn't mine -- so my apologies.

As for those cervezas, if you can make it out here to my neck of the woods I'll take you over to La Hacienda for some authentic Mexican food and beer colder than your ex-wife's heart.
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As I live in Mexico, I would extend the invitation when any of you is over here ;)

That said, and now that we all are friends :D I have to ask for apologies to everyone I insulted when things were really heated up. I never took it personal with anyone as I have learned a lot with this thread.
 
Piggy said:
La Hacienda is as authentic as it gets around here. No cabrito, I'm afraid -- the rednecks won't have it. However, I do know some places in N. Florida where you can get that.

(My father was a Border Patrolman, btw. My eldest brother grew up in Eagle Pass and environs.)

The best thing outta Texas is their pickers, though. Billy Joe Shaver, Jimmy Dale Gilmore, The Ex-Husbands, Guy Clarke... can't beat it!
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Georgia?

If you are there, quickie question -- did Pappasito's make it to Atlanta? It's a chain, I know, and not authentic Mexican (it's Tex-Mex fair) but they have great Fajitas. It's owned by a Houston family that created several different restaurants -- their seafood/cajun chain Pappadeaux has made it as far north as Cincinnati, so it's sort of like a little taste of home.

I'd love to have a beer with you anytime.
 
Bodhi Dharma Zen said:
As I live in Mexico, I would extend the invitation when any of you is over here ;)

That said, and now that we all are friends :D I have to ask for apologies to everyone I insulted when things were really heated up. I never took it personal with anyone as I have learned a lot with this thread.
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Anytime. If you are near one of the coasts, doubly so. One of the big problems with Ohio is that no one here seems to know exactly where Mexico is. Folks here only seem to go to Florida for vacation.
 
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