Another Question for Heiwa : Amazing Fireproof Steel

I see you're still oozing your misplaced arrogance Terral. Hmm.

As a little hint, note that only those who have something to back it up with can truly get away with the kind of bluster you spew. Otherwise, you just wind up posting endlessly on an internet forum and not actually getting up and doing anything about...oh. Wait.

Never mind.
 
the melting point of structural steel is about 2800 degrees

<snip>

Oh. So Lensman thinks all of the molten metal is normal for typical 1000 degree building fires? No sir. You are one of the chiefs of the ‘thick skull’ department . . .
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WHAT BLOODY MOLTEN STEEL?

The sodding steel does NOT have to melt to lose strength!

It just needs to attain a temperature of over 300C to start losing strength, as has been pointed out NUMEROUS TIMES at temperatures over 600C it loses HALF of it's original strength - MELTING doesn't come into it nor is it even slightly necessary, these temperatures were easily developed in the WTC7 fires - even if they only lasted for 20 minutes as you insist.
 
Good Luck With Your "Building Fires Did It" Explanations . . .

Hi Architect:

Architect >> Terry, Nice to see you avoiding responding to my posts. Keep up the good work.
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My first rebuttal to your Opening Post travesty is here in Post #11 with your defending arguments beginning in Post #31 here. I began my second round of rebuttals in Post #54 here with another in Post #55, Post #57, and Post #58, until we find my final closing arguments in Post #60. Therefore, the notion that I am avoiding your posts is ridiculous and almost as funny as your attempts to apply ‘steel testing’ information to anything remotely connected to these WTC cases. My CD case has already been presented on my WTC-7 Thread here, so these readers already know my position. Now they also know my WTC Controlled Demolition position by careful examination of my rebuttals to your “Building Fires Did It” OP proposals on this thread, even if that was directed at someone ‘you’ consider to be a chicken. :0)

My case has been made to my complete satisfaction on ‘your’ thread, where Architect is attempting to defend his OP “Official Cover Story” hypothesis. One of the most important lessons about true meaningful debate is knowing when to shut up and move on once your case has indeed been presented. Good luck convincing anyone that Building Fires Did It on this thread or anywhere. I look forward to seeing your real “WTC-7 Collapsed From Building Fires” Thesis Paper, if you ever develop the nerve to try that with a real AE911Truther around. :0)

BTW, the last time I checked AE911Truth had just one Demolition Supervisor signed up and that guy is me.

GL in the debates,

Terral
 
originally posted by Terral: Should these readers begin worrying that the steel in their home ovens is going to begin losing strength at 300 degrees Celsius like Architect here is suggesting
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Do ovens support the load of your house ?

NO.

Therefore its a bad comparison Terral.

Steel is a MALEABLE & DUCTILE metal.
Heat increases the maleability, and affects its ductility aswell, this causes its tensile strength to drop, and its yield strength also drops. This is definately not a good thing in the case of a load bearing structural member, hence the typical requirement for fireproofing...
 
Terral said:
Hi Lensman:




Why do you keep insisting that building fires caused the WTC-7 collapse in just a few cotton picking hours? Since typical building fires burn between 800 and 1000 degrees for only 20 minutes in any single location ‘and’ the melting point of structural steel is about 2800 degrees, then these readers can already see the futility of your ‘Building Fires Did It’ nonsense. The melting point of structural red-iron steel is a very important piece of evidence for this WTC case, because of what THE EVIDENCE shows everywhere starting right here in a little four minute video. How do ‘you’ get molten metal pools from 1000 degree building fires? :0)

We have perhaps the most comprehensive evidence of “molten metal” pools under all three WTC skyscrapers here for your careful inspection where Rudy Giuliani said, "They were standing on top of a cauldron. They were standing on top of fires 2,000 degrees that raged for a hundred days." Other sources said, “The temperature at the core of "the pile," is near 2000 degrees Fahrenheit, according to fire officials.” And yet, Lensman comes back to say, “Why do you keep insisting on quoting the melting point of steel?” Ahhh, because we have tons and tons and tons and tons of molten metal under ‘all three’ WTC collapsed skyscrapers.

How do you get 2000 degree molten metal pools from 1000 degree building fires? How do you get gigantic molten metal WTC biscuits like this and this from building fires? The answer is that YOU CANNOT. Period. We require 2800 degree temperatures for extended periods to create all of THIS EVIDENCE for which you want to turn a blind “Official Cover Story” eye. The question becomes about ‘why’ Lensman wants to point his lens in the “Building Fires Did It” direction in the first place . . .




Terral
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How does explosives or thermite produce tons and tons and tons of molten steel for hundreds of days, after they have been used ?
 
My own oven doesn't have a 572 degree F setting anyway, so I'm not going to worry about it at all . . . (Except I need to clean it some time soon)
 
rwguinn said:
That is so 20th Century!:D:D
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That it's in Fahrenheit, or that it requires manual cleaning? In either case it's hard to argue . . . (I use a spray-on cleaner that requires thick yellow rubber gloves that go to my elbows)
 
Terral said:
You cannot ‘soften’ any structural steel columns within the steel-framed network from building fires, because the heat is transported AWAY from that location to adjacent supports more quickly than 1000-degree fires can introduce new energy.
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*sigh* One step at a time....
(I think maybe I'll just keep quoting this until Terral stops saying making the asinine claim quoted above. Then we can move on to something else.)

[X] said:
Terral, look at the image below. It's from this site.

[qimg]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f182/leftieman/1516271537_a4bd7046bf.jpg[/qimg]

The man is forging a Katana. If you look, you will see that one end of the steel is red-hot. The other end is not. In fact, the other end is probably cool enough to touch. But it's just come out of his forge! Obviously, then, heat does not travel through steel fast enough to prevent a large temperature gradient.

Your argument of heat transferring so fast that the whole building would have had to be heated to a critical temperature is wrong.

Which means, if you consider yourself an intellectually honest person, you should remove that from your argument and by extension all points that depended upon it.


And before you go into a rant arguing how I have to post my own thesis to counter yours instead of showing you the errors in yours, let me explain something you seem to have missed:

The people on this forum are not going to let your "thesis" pass by without critically examining it. The idea of posting such a thing is to see if it stands up to scrutiny, not just to have it out there for people to read. So far, your "thesis" has failed to meet any reasonable standards of accuracy. We are pointing this out, because we do not want you wasting your time with such delusions nor influencing people who may lack the requisite knowledge to spot the areas where you are wrong.

You posted the thing, now you have to defend it.
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Normally, I abhor using the phrase "try thinking for yourself" as support for an argument. I generally find it insulting and demeaning. Unfortunately for Terral, it is patently obvious that he has not thought this through but is instead taking Richard Gage's every word as Holy Writ and not even questioning the conclusions. I detest that this has degenerated to the point where it is a valid statement, but nonetheless recognize that this is where we sit.
Terral: Stop reading Gage's purile verbal diarrhea. You'll gain marvelous abilities if you do, like reason and logic.
 
terral

This is the building I posted about earlier. It was a storage warehouse for people items for when they moved abroad or needed them stored for some other reason. There were no chemicals or exotic materials stored here at all. Just house and office materials. It caught fire one Saturday and this was the end result. You can see the steel frame has deformed due to the heat generated by the fire. There is nothing above the roof that would have added weight to the frame. It fell purely due to the fire.

If it had not been for the low walls made of brick at the sides it would have collapsed worse.

After seeing this are you still saying that fire from house or office materials cannot heat steel enough to deform it and cause buildings to collapse?

If you want more pictures I can get them.
 

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I also think it's worth pointing out that according to Terral, turning on your oven would cause the heat to "distribute evenly" throughout the appliance, rendering it extremely hot to the touch, right? Does anyone's oven do that?
 
*chirp* *chirp* *chirp*

And reality as we know it has been restored...

Nice example funk, I hope no one was hurt of course.
 
Terral said:
<snip>

Please forgive, but what ‘seems to be’ to Architect (“Cough”) is exactly what is being judged by all these readers coming to realize that you are sitting your behind over there across the ocean somewhere, but my children and grandchildren are right here in the USA very much ‘susceptible’ to the next series of 9/11-like attacks from these same inside-job bad guys YOU are working every day to defend. Yes. I have build the Inside-Job Terrorist Model from a mountain available of data ‘and’ have determined with a 95 percent degree of accuracy that the next 9/11-like attack will take place in the state of California and in proximity to the Oakland Metropolitan Area. Your bullony characterized as “awfully solid material” does NOT take the WTC-7 Compartmentalization and Fireproofing variables into account, or anything else pertaining to these WTC Controlled Demolition Inside-Jobs. Do you guys really believe Terral [ yes, I referred to myself in the third person :0) ] is all alone in knowing for A FACT that WTC-7 was taken down by Controlled Demolition? What does the evidence say concerning this bogus NIST Report?

TeamLiberty.Net

<snip>
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Anybody else notice the highlighted bit?

And why hasn't Terral acknowledges my point about the conductive properties of steel? He must have seen it. It as a big, pretty picture just for him. It also shows that steel can indeed be heated in a fire to property-changing temperatures in one place, while remaining relatively cool a short distance away. Something I would think a "demolition contractor" would be away of.
Plus, I will admit to a morbid curiosity as to how Terral will explain the point away.
 
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3bodyproblem said:
*chirp* *chirp* *chirp*

And reality as we know it has been restored...

Nice example funk, I hope no one was hurt of course.
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Na, only the manager was in as it was saturday morning. Weird thing is, I was flying back from Libya that night and flew directly over it and thought it was my work that had been destroyed. I had to pop in by on way home to drop something off and the security guard told me what had happened.

Heres hoping terral will address this and admit normal office type fires can affect steel framed buildings.
 
Sheesh, you go away on business for a couple of days and someone comes out with a screed of posts then complains they don't get an instant response.....
 
Sorry that I missed this thread adressed to me. Evidently heat affects steel! I heat/cool steel regularly to, e.g. align it. I do not need any potential energy at all for that. Just heat/cool. OK, these are wavy steel plates, etc.

I never heat vertical columns under axial compression loads, though, except in model fire tests http://heiwaco.tripod.com/nist1.htm#6 ). It seems that a heated, vertical column under axial compression will slowly deform locally in different ways, depending on its transverse shape. No sudden collapse!

This local deformation of a heated part cannot evidently induce ruptures in adjacent, non-heated strutcure by brute forces and induce sudden 'collapse' of the latter, etc.

A ship of mine was burning for a week in a cargo hold and a lot of steel was deformed but no collapses. And no ruptures.

It is very simple - gravity forces cannot cause total, global collapses of unheated multiple part steel low stressed structures even if applied very accurately!

Reason is that the gravity force, accurately applied, can only deform one part locally ... and when that part is deformed the gravity force, accurately applied, will slip off and ... pouff it is gone. To accurately apply this force to another part and deform it, and so on (total collapse) is not possible.

It is very easy to verify this phenomenon with tests. That is why no steel building ever collapses due to release of potential energy above and associated gravity forces.

However, tell that to FEMA and Nist and they collapse! Their trousers and knickers fall down. Quite embarrassing but censored for national security reasons. So, please, go on and believe that gravity forces applied above can cause total collapse of a steel structure of many parts. In reality it does not work, though.
 
Heiwa said:
Sorry that I missed this thread adressed to me. Evidently heat affects steel! I heat/cool steel regularly to, e.g. align it. I do not need any potential energy at all for that. Just heat/cool. OK, these are wavy steel plates, etc.
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Done that potential energy calculation, Heiwa?
 
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