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What NIST is Really About

Reality Believer

Muse
Reality Believer
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
716
I get fuming mad when I hear basement scientists claim they have found errors in the NIST's findings, and claim that NIST has been compromised by government "Blue Meanies" that have corrupted the results of their work.

Do the conspiracy believers even know the depth and breadth of NIST's work and know that they are much more than just the agency that investigated the WTC's structural response? Do they know that their every day life depends on the work that NIST does? Some resources for the inquisitive and a video for familiarity of evidence format :rolleyes:.

http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/general2.htm

 
Nist Nist Nist

From NIST's website...


NIST's mission:

To promote U.S. innovation and industrial competitiveness by advancing measurement science, standards, and technology in ways that enhance economic security and improve our quality of life.


NIST's vision:

NIST will be the world’s leader in creating critical measurement solutions and promoting equitable standards. Our efforts stimulate innovation, foster industrial competitiveness, and improve the quality of life.


NIST's core competencies:
  • Measurement science
  • Rigorous traceability
  • Development and use of standards

NIST's core values:
  • People: We value and support an inclusive, engaged, and diverse workforce capable of fulfilling the NIST mission.
  • Integrity: We are objective, ethical, and honest.
  • Customer focus: We anticipate the needs of our customers and are committed to meeting or exceeding their expectations.
  • Excellence: We expect world-class performance and continuous improvement in all we do.
 
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NIST To The Max

The NIST NCSTAR Report is telling the truth, truthers.
 
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Max:

I thought you said NIST was telling the AMBIGUATED truth!

And, by the way, the US Government has a history of telling ambiguated truths:

When Truman said Hiroshima was a military target, was he telling the truth?
When Eisenhower said that the U2 aircraft piloted by Gary Powers was carrying out weather research, was he telling the truth?
When Reagan said he could not remember if he approved arm sales to Iran, was he telling the truth?
When Bush said he would hunt down OBL and bring him to justice, was he telling the truth?
 
NIST is a pseudo-scientific institution, with a bias toward the US

Fear not Ms. Zero. We have not gone off track. This thread's title is: What is NIST Really About? So on that note...

Apollo20,

Yes, I usually frame it as, "The NIST Reports tell the truth - albeit the ambiguated truth."

And I always remind people that the ambiguated truth is the truth if you simply look at it correctly! Just imagine you have one half of a DNA double helix.

You point out that there is a history of the US government telling the ambiguous truth.

Anyway, back to NIST...


NIST's mission:

To promote U.S. innovation and industrial competitiveness by advancing measurement science, standards, and technology in ways that enhance economic security and improve our quality of life.

(bold mine)


Read NIST's mission statement several times. It is essential to note that NIST is NOT about science. NIST is about using science for political science.

What's the difference between science and political science? Science occurs on the Real Plane, where imaginary components, spin, and distortion are zero. Political science occurs on the Complex Plane, where there is control over imaginary components, spin, and distortion - where there is deception.

So what is NIST really all about? Again, read the mission statement. NIST is not a scientific but a political scientific institution. NIST does stay close to real science though, so imaginary components, spin, and distortion - while not zero - are small relative to other political science institutions. (NIST uses deception-lite.)

I think if you view NIST as a quasi-scientific body with a bias toward the US (which a true scientific institution would not have), and embedded in a political science space, the NIST Reports make much more sense. From this perspective, it is extremely unlikely that NIST would lie in the NIST Reports. Telling the ambiguous truth, rather than lying, is much more in keeping with this quasi-scientific institution.

Max on a Mission
 
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On NIST's mission statement

Are you sure?

If I remember correctly, even Apollo20 suggested that at the very least NIST - with the NCSTAR Reports - might simply be trying to protect the American construction industry's reputation.

Wouldn't that be in keeping with the mission statement?
 
Fixity is broke

What is NIST really about?

This is not very complicated stuff. NIST is the Nation Institute of Standards....

Standards are vital to society. Without standards, a society is lost.

Fixity in standards is a key concept. Could you imagine trying to build a cracking plant with a flexible meter? Or send an orbiter to Stupider with a flexible second? Fixity in science is incredibly important.

By the way, great job if you can get it...

"Ah Virgil, your job is to make sure the kilogram doesn't change."
"What do I have to do?"
"Nothing...don't do a thing."
"Nothing?"
"Nothing"
"But what if...."
"Nothing. Don't do anything, ever."

(Quick quiz: If it does not make sense to have a flexible meter, kilo, second, joule, degree Celcius, etc., why does it make sense to have a flexible dollar?)

Fixity of standards in science is incredibly important. Without standards, a society is lost.

Ahhhh, but political science is not science; political science is science with a twist! Political science is like rubber-sheet topology, where the truth of the world can be stretch and folded without causing holes and tears.

In political science fixity is broke. In political science the truth is stretched just a little here and there. In political science, standards are flexible. And remember, a subset of flexible standards is the double standard.


Your favorite universal space-time metric,

Ruler of the Universe,

Mr. Fixity himself,

Max C. Photon
 
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Max Photon said:
So what is NIST really all about? Again, read the mission statement. NIST is not a scientific but a political scientific institution. NIST does stay close to real science though, so imaginary components, spin, and distortion - while not zero - are small relative to other political science institutions. (NIST uses deception-lite.)

I think if you view NIST as a quasi-scientific body with a bias toward the US (which a true scientific institution would not have), and embedded in a political science space, the NIST Reports make much more sense. From this perspective, it is extremely unlikely that NIST would lie in the NIST Reports. Telling the ambiguous truth, rather than lying, is much more in keeping with this quasi-scientific institution.

Max on a Mission
Click to expand...

Wow, Max says NIST "stays close" to science. How profound and insightful. Well, we could take Max's word for it, but let's just take a quick jaunt over to the NIST Web site. Click around at random to http://ts.nist.gov/measurementservices/referencematerials/index.cfm . Why, look Max, over there on the right side of the page, they show gold nanoparticles! Real, live, you-can-actually-buy-them nanoparticles. Not too bad for a bunch of disinfo specialists and pseudoscientists! And they're real nanoparticles to boot, Max, unlike your "nanothermite".

Max, if NIST was a glass greenhouse full of beatiful orchids, you'd be the guy out on the sidewalk who chucks a rock at the glass and runs. Your schtick is sometimes amusing but you cross the line when you start making up total crap in support of your fantasies

Ferd
 
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When a plane flies into a building who do you call?

Back in Jan 2002 a Cessna 172 flew into the Bank of America in Tampa Florida.

Which US government agency investigated this incident?

NIST?

No! The NTSB.

So why didn't the NTSB investigate 9/11?

You know NIST used to be called NBS, The National Bureau of Standards, which was founded in 1901 under US Code Title 15 Chapter 7 to undertake "The custody, maintenance and development of the national standards of measuremnt...".

NBS changed its name to NIST in 1988 but it's core mission remained the same. Before 1988 I had great respect for the NBS... and used to read all the articles in its excellent Journal of Research. The NBS was the US equivalent of The National Physical Laboratory in the UK or the NRC in Canada. All these laboratories did research into subjects that involved VERY precise measurements like spectroscopy and crystallography. When I was at the NRC in Ottawa we measured spectroscopic wavelengths to one part in 10 to the 7th!

Later in my career I used NBS standards every day to do chemical analyses: let's see I believe it was NBS Standard 1633 - Trace Elements in Coal.....

So, I agree with Reality Believer, NIST does good work, just like the ASTM, ... but why NIST investigated 9/11, and not the NTSB, remains a mystery to me.
 
Dr. Greening:

http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/factsheet/bfrlinvestigations.htm

Buildings, bridges, and other man-made structures are not supposed to fall down. But sometimes they do, and for different reasons: fire, earthquakes, high winds, errors in design and construction, flaws in materials, and even terrorist attacks. Under the National Construction Safety Team (NCST) Act, signed into law in October 2002, the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) is authorized to investigate major building failures in the United States. The NIST investigations will establish the likely technical causes of the building failure and evaluate the technical aspects of emergency response and evacuation procedures in the wake of such failures. The goal is to recommend improvements to the way in which buildings are designed, constructed, maintained, and used.

...NIST has more than 30 years of experience investigating building fire and structural failures. Since NIST is not a regulatory agency and does not issue building standards or codes, the institute is viewed as a neutral, “third party” investigator. According to the NCST Act, no part of any report resulting from investigations can be admitted as evidence or used in any suit or action for damages. Additionally, NIST employees are not permitted to serve as expert witnesses.
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In addition:

http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/factsheet/nist_investigation_911.htm

Why is NIST doing this investigation?
NIST scientists and engineers are world-renowned experts in analyzing a building’s failure and determining the most probable technical cause. Since NIST is not a regulatory agency and does not issue building standards or codes, the institute is viewed as a neutral, “third party” investigator.

Additionally, under the National Construction Safety Team (NCST) Act, signed into law in October 2002, NIST is authorized to investigate major building failures in the United States. The NIST investigations will establish the likely technical causes of the building failure and evaluate the technical aspects of emergency response and evacuation procedures in the wake of such failures. The goal is to recommend improvements to the way in which buildings are designed, constructed, maintained, and used.
Click to expand...
 
Apollo20 said:
Back in Jan 2002 a Cessna 172 flew into the Bank of America in Tampa Florida.
Which US government agency investigated this incident?
NIST?
No! The NTSB.
So why didn't the NTSB investigate 9/11?
Click to expand...
OH, if the NTSB had proof it was not an accident, they would give it to the POLICE.

The National Transportation Safety Board issued a one-sentence conclusion Friday to the case of Charles Bishop, the troubled teenager who flew a small airplane into the side of a downtown Tampa high-rise a year ago.
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Wake up to reality. Sorry, the NTSB investigates accidents! END OF STORY. The four planes on 9/11 not accidents. The kid who killed himself was an accident until they investigated.

Please do not make GROSS ERRORS in simple facts; it looks bad!

If the someone suspected the building was substandard NIST would have helped.
NTSB does not do crime! On the 9/11 issues they were asked to help on certain things. BUT 9/11 was not in the NTSB box!
Wake up to reality. Sorry, the NTSB investigates accidents! END OF STORY. The four planes on 9/11 not accidents. The kid who killed himself was an accident until they investigated.

Please do not make GROSS ERRORS in simple facts; it looks bad!

If the someone suspected the building was substandard NIST would have helped.
NTSB does not do crime! On the 9/11 issues they were asked to help on certain things. BUT 9/11 was not in the NTSB box!

Are you as researched challenges as 9/11 truth? Please take the time not to make major errors by looking up some stuff before you post extraneous crap on quibbling.
When a plane flies into a building "on purpose" who do you call? The Police! What a dumb question.
I fixed your question because all rational people know the impacts on 9/11 were on purpose at the WTC, and the Pentagon. There is so much proof it is funny you messed up the question and are ignorant on the role of the NTSB and NIST. Is someone posting for you?
 
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The Cessna crash in Jan 2002 was NOT an accident guys!

In addition, Bush initially thought the first plane to hit the towers did so BY ACCIDENT!
 
Apollo20 said:
The Cessna crash in Jan 2002 was NOT an accident guys!

In addition, Bush initially thought the first plane to hit the towers did so BY ACCIDENT!
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The Cessna was not an accident but the NTSB checked it out! So? The NTSB does not know it was not an accident until they check it out; 9/11 was easy to see, not an accident; kid suicide is easy; someone has to find the note; the NTSB has to check out the history of the pilot; food, sleep, mental state; sorry you lose this one Dr Greening, you are having a problem understanding reality. The NTSB had nothing to investigate on 9/11, except act as an expert advisor to the FBI. If you do not like how the FBI did it; too bad.
 
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beachnut said:
The Cessna was not an accident but the NTSB checked it out! So? The NTSB does not know it was not an accident until they check it out; 9/11 was easy to see, not an accident; kid suicide is easy; someone has to find the note; the NTSB has to check out the history of the pilot; food, sleep, mental state; sorry you lose this one Dr Greening, you are having a problem understanding reality. The NTSB had nothing to investigate on 9/11, except act as an expert advisor to the FBI. If you do not like how the FBI did it; too bad.
Click to expand...
Why is Dr. Greening derailing the thread over Bull that he knows the answer to? Is it part of his irrational hate for engineers and that he hates the USA so much, that he keeps prodding?


The NTSB checked it out because the cause was unknown at the time.
Was there a systems failure on the aircraft?
Was there a mechanical failure?
Did the pilot have a medical condition? Was he on drugs?
What condition was the aircraft in? Power setings? control surface settings? Did he try to avoid but failed?
These are questions the NTSB has to answer. Then, they turn the findings over to the proper agency for action. FAA pulls licenses, issues edicts, FBI arrests folks, etc.
Once the determination that the 9/11 aircraft were in working order and were hijacked, the NTSB had absolutely no role in the investigation, other than to offer expertise and lab time.
 
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