The Viking Leif Ericson was a Christian Evangelist

[bjornart]

It's pretty clear from a reading of Olaf's saga that at least some people converted to Christianity for political reasons. And because Olaf was a badass and would have burnt their village if they didn't.

Burning the village was Olav being lenient. It's also interesting to read stuff like this (from wikipedia):

Judging from the bare outlines of known historical facts, he appears, more than anything else, as a fairly unsuccessful ruler, who had his power based on some sort of alliance with the much more powerful king Knut the Great; who was driven into exile when he claimed a power of his own; and whose attempt at a reconquest was swiftly crushed.

 

[arthwollipot]

The mission to Iceland was more like a military expedition, see this from Njal's Saga:

I love Njal's saga. What other peoples of the time would write a saga about a lawyer who was burned to death?

[Off topic]
My big axe is named Bergthora, after Njal's wife. Because she was an old battleaxe as well...
[/Off topic]

source: http://www.religioustolerance.org/nat_mott.htm


Personally, it's a terrible argument, as DOC has proven.

The United states constitution clearly places a wall of seperation between government and religion. "In god we trust" is a breach of that wall. It weakens our nation.

I agree, and it's astounding to me that the court at that time would be able to make such a ruling.

 

[six7s]

... it's astounding to me that the court at that time would be able to make such a ruling.

The time was the McCarthy era of communist witch-hunts

Google: Results 1 - 10 of about 11,100 for "McCarthy era" religion communism atheism.

History of the Pledge of Allegiance:

In 1953, the Roman Catholic men's group, the Knights of Columbus mounted a campaign to add the words "under God" to the Pledge.

The nation was suffering through the height of the cold war, and the McCarthy communist witch hunt. Partly in reaction to these factors, a reported 15 resolutions were initiated in Congress to change the pledge.

They got nowhere until Rev. George Docherty (1911 - ) preached a sermon that was attended by President Eisenhower and the national press corps on 1954-FEB-7.

His sermon said in part: "Apart from the mention of the phrase 'the United States of America,' it could be the pledge of any republic. In fact, I could hear little Muscovites repeat a similar pledge to their hammer-and-sickle flag in Moscow."

After the service, President Eisenhower said that he agreed with the sermon. In the following weeks, the news spread, and public opinion grew.

Three days later, Senator Homer Ferguson, (R-MI), sponsored a bill to add God to the Pledge.

Constructing “Godless Communism”: Religion, Politics, and Popular Culture, 1954-1960
Americana: The Journal of American Popular Culture (1900-present), Spring 2005, Volume 4, Issue 1

Throughout the nation’s history, majority opinion tended to substitute for truth – such was the nature of democracy.

An outspoken and proactive electorate ensured that prevailing public opinion essentially became the American Way.

That public’s opinions were subjective perceptions spread through the media outlets of cultural discourse.

National images and patriotic feelings necessarily tainted any decision maker’s self-perception, as well as his or her received image of a presumed national foe.

The American perception of the Soviet Union in the 1950s found a base in atheism, totalitarianism, and communism.

It fostered a public belief that no nation could positively engage with a counterpart perceived by so many as evil.

Popular Christianity became the zenith of popular culture.

 

[arthwollipot]

Well, I'm glad that's all behind us, right?

Right?

 

[kmortis]

Well, I'm glad that's all behind us, right?

Right?

<kaf>

 

[DOC]

Well, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that "In God We Trust" was not a religious phrase. So which is is: "In God We Trust" is not a religious phrase and America is a secular nation, or the Supreme Court was wrong and this injustice should be reverted immediately?

Actually the Supreme court never ruled on this issue.

"The U.S. Supreme Court declined to review all of these rulings. It might be embarrassing to them, because the motto also hangs on the wall at the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court has commented in passing on the motto saying that:

"[o]ur previous opinions have considered in dicta the motto and the pledge [of allegiance], characterizing them as consistent with the proposition that government may not communicate an endorsement of religious belief." Allegheny, 492 U.S.

 

[Kopji]

sec·u·lar

...Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French seculer, from Late Latin saecularis, from saeculum the present world, from Latin, generation, age, century, world; akin to Welsh hoedl lifetime
Date: 14th century

1 a: of or relating to the worldly or temporal <secular concerns> b: not overtly or specifically religious <secular music> c: not ecclesiastical or clerical <secular courts> <secular landowners>

2: not bound by monastic vows or rules; specifically : of, relating to, or forming clergy not belonging to a religious order or congregation <a secular priest>
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary

The US is a secular country.
Turkey is a secular country.
The Vatican is not a secular country.

Religion is sometimes influential.
Trolls are sometimes influential.

 

[fuelair]

No, In fact it is possible his Christianity gave him the courage (knowing God was with him) and even the inspiration to make the dangerous mission into unknown territory.

Columbus said without a doubt it was the Holy Spirit who inspired him to make his voyage -- who knows, the same thing could have happened to Ericson.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2806831#post2806831

Yes, and Barney the Dinosaur could fly and you could tell the truth and quit pulling it like you........never mind. Lot's of things are possible, doesn't make them true. Dog could be real - but isn't, pterodactyls could rule the world by mind control - but they don't, there could have been a jeebus just like your book of dreams said - but nope! Being somehow conceivable by a human (or semi-human) mind just does not indicate reality. Try to get real.

 

[Whack01]

Evangelist? Are we talking AD 970-1020 erickson? Isn't that a weee little bit before the protestant reformation?

Just based on the time period he would at best be a Catholic missionary and at that time, the popes were in to sorcery/astrology which aren't exactly Christian sports.

 

[fuelair]

Evangelist? Are we talking AD 970-1020 erickson? Isn't that a weee little bit before the protestant reformation?

Just based on the time period he would at best be a Catholic missionary and at that time, the popes were in to sorcery/astrology which aren't exactly Christian sports.

If it's good enough for the religious, I am sure DUK would happily join in - especially with the Borgia pope.

 

[DOC]

Evangelist? Are we talking AD 970-1020 erickson? Isn't that a weee little bit before the protestant reformation?

Just based on the time period he would at best be a Catholic missionary and at that time, the popes were in to sorcery/astrology which aren't exactly Christian sports.

Weren't the 3 wise men into astrology. And the bible condemns sorcery, which pope are you talking about.

 

[Fitter]

Weren't the 3 wise men into astrology. <snip>

It's your fairy tale, you tell us.

 

[six7s]

renaissanceastrology.com

By the early sixteenth century, astrology had reached the heights of its popularity. Popes such as Julius II, Leo X, Adrian IV and Paul III viewed astrology favorably. Even a certain mistrust of astrology, as exhibited by Pope Gregory XIII, did not prevent the casting of his natal chart, now preserved in the Vatican Library.

 

[e-sabbath]

Meh, it's all irrelevant. The Jews discovered America first.
http://www.econ.ohio-state.edu/jhm/arch/batcrk.html


And even if you don't believe that, the Vikings themselves claimed the Irish beat them there.

 

[DOC]

renaissanceastrology.com

Even a certain mistrust of astrology, as exhibited by Pope Gregory XIII, did not prevent the casting of his natal chart, now preserved in the Vatican Library.

Well all of this doesn't have much to do with Leif Ericson but since someone brought up astrology we shouldn't be too rough on Gregory XIII since he did reform the incorrect Julian Calender.

From Wiki's article on Gregory XIII

Gregory XIII is best known for his reformation of the calendar, producing the Gregorian calendar with the aid of Jesuit priest/astronomer Christopher Clavius.It was invented in Rome, Italy. The reason for the reform is that the average length of the year in the Julian Calendar was too long, and the date of the actual Vernal Equinox had slowly slipped to March 10, whereas the computus (calculation) of the Easter date of Easter still followed the traditional date of March 21.

This was rectified by following the observations of Clavius and Johannes Kepler, and the calendar was changed when Pope Gregory XIII decreed that the day after October 4, 1582 would be October 15, 1582. He issued the papal bull Inter gravissimas to promulgate the new calendar on February 24, 1582. On October 15, 1582, this calendar replaced the Julian calendar, in use since 45 BC, and has become universally used today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Gregory_XIII

 

[shadron]

If it's good enough for the religious, I am sure DUK would happily join in - especially with the Borgia pope.

Uhhhh - this is long before the Borgias; 1000 AD, more or less. Were talking middle Middle Ages here - no renaissance on the horizon, not even a glimmer. Just past Charlemagne, his empire is 150 years in the past. The Holy Romans are in the east, and Feudalism is everywhere else. Islamic feudal states rules in Spain, Africa, the Near East and is knocking on Constantinople's gates. The crusades are a gleam in the church's eye. There is only Catholicism (the Great Schism hasn't happened yet), Islam and paganism, with a splash of Judahism and some assorted heresies. That's it.

 

[ThatSoundAgain]

As long as we're just putting information out there, one of my friends tells of having once been asked by an American gentleman he met in Copenhagen how large a percentage of Denmark is set aside for Viking reservations. Now think about that for a moment.

 

[arthwollipot]

Uhhhh - this is long before the Borgias; 1000 AD, more or less. Were talking middle Middle Ages here - no renaissance on the horizon, not even a glimmer.

If you want to get technical it's the early middle ages - also known as the "dark ages" between the fall of the Roman empire and the conquest of England. But let's not get technical.

 

[ceo_esq]

Uhhhh - this is long before the Borgias; 1000 AD, more or less. Were talking middle Middle Ages here - no renaissance on the horizon, not even a glimmer. Just past Charlemagne, his empire is 150 years in the past.

We shouldn't say that no renaissance was on the horizon. The 12th-century Renaissance was just around the corner. For that matter (since you bring up Charlemagne), the Carolingian Renaissance hadn't occurred that long ago.

 

[chris epic]

No, In fact it is possible his Christianity gave him the courage (knowing God was with him) and even the inspiration to make the dangerous mission into unknown territory.

Which one was it? A fact? Or possible? Really, its just your own optimistic assumption.

Columbus said without a doubt it was the Holy Spirit who inspired him to make his voyage

I wished the Holy Spirit had reminded Columbus that he would bring disease, famine, oppression, and ultimately near-genocide with him.