Split thread: Does the Bible speak out against slavery?

There's definitely something freudian going on, becuase when I first read the title over her image "Beauty pageant titleholder", I read "Beauty pregnant T****holder".

I'm very sorry.:o

My first reaction was along the lines of "Giggeda giggeda giggeda Oh yeah". If that makes me a sorry example of manhood, so be it, but I don't need no frickin' Freud to explain it to me.
 
Is it too late to claim my quota, as I seem to have missed it at the time?

In my experience there wasn't much to claim, since they were coming over to see their "boyfriends" (fat chance that said boyfriends would be spending good beer-money travelling the other way). It was mostly a difficult time for all concerned - but rather amusing to watch.
 
I liked your "God as Nelson Muntz: Stop hitting yourself" even better.

The "abusive husband" evokes a much more visceral response. They're common enough that they impact on almost everybody - through family, friends, colleagues. The playground bully is left behind, the adult bully is always with us.
 
Meh, they just aren't worth that much on the open market. You are much better off owning Swedes.

Hey :(

Though I guess I'm glad to hear we are considered more worth than the Australians :)

ETA:
Haven't we already discussed this very thing with DOC in another thread? It all sounds very familiar, but I can't find it...
 
Last edited:
Hey :(

Though I guess I'm glad to hear we are considered more worth than the Australians :)


New game! List the nationalities worth more as slaves than Australians and why.

Japanese - They already have a strong work ethic.

ETA:
Haven't we already discussed this very thing with DOC in another thread? It all sounds very familiar, but I can't find it...


Pretty much anything in a DOC thread is recycled (how environmentally friendly!). Every now and then he gloms onto some new fetish, and we get treated to that ad nauseum (re: Peter Singer).
 
New game! List the nationalities worth more as slaves than Australians and why.

Japanese - They already have a strong work ethic.

Norwegians - They eat Lutefisk, so that means they can survive on anything (low food costs) :p

Pretty much anything in a DOC thread is recycled (how environmentally friendly!). Every now and then he gloms onto some new fetish, and we get treated to that ad nauseum (re: Peter Singer).

True.

I wonder what really motivates DOC to post so much here :confused: I mean, it isn't hard to see that what he really wants with all that he is saying is to convert the atheist, or at least make the atheist admit he/she is evil and damned. But he must have realized by now that it is quite a hopeless mission he is on. Or does it get more noble the more impossible it is? :confused: I realize that I am not fully clear about how such a faith-based mindset works. To me, when things clearly does not work, it seems natural to try something else, but he just chugs on, on the same track, as if nothing has happened. :boggled:
 
Last edited:
So, to sum up the current status of this thread.

The god of the bible is ok with slavery and never condemned it. He even went so far in saying what's a good way to have slaves.


What else in the bible will we see as a goofy anachronism years from now? My money's on homosexuality.
 
I wonder what really motivates DOC to post so much here :confused: I mean, it isn't hard to see that what he really wants with all that he is saying is to convert the atheist, or at least make the atheist admit he/she is evil and damned. But he must have realized by now that it is quite a hopeless mission he is on. Or does it get more noble the more impossible it is? :confused: I realize that I am not fully clear about how such a faith-based mindset works. To me, when things clearly does not work, it seems natural to try something else, but he just chugs on, on the same track, as if nothing has happened. :boggled:

Pop-psyche mode :

Someone like DOC validates themselves when they post here. We may regard them as emerging from a swamp of superstition, ignorance and narcissim but they regard themselves as descending into our midst. When we laugh them off they feel even more validated. Despite our cleverness we can't see what is so obvious to them, even when they "explain" it.
 
The Chapter and Verse structure. No hyperlinks to Christian theological exegesis :confused: ? Is that Dark Ages or what?
There's been countless movie and CD tie-ins, so there are some things that are progressive.
 
Surely "treat your slaves well" means "slavery is okay as long as you treat your slaves well."

Surely not. For example, nineteenth-century exhortations to slaveholders to treat their slaves well tended to be authored by people who were abolitionists. (Not to compare the early modern institution to the Old Testament one to which the same name is often assigned.)


Gregoire said:
The Papal encyclical you have cited is interesting. I did not know about it until you shared it with us. But it still dates back only to 1537.

That's not too surprising, since that's shortly after the European powers instituted New World slavery. Prior to that, slavery had virtually disappeared from Europe (partly for economic and cultural reasons beginning shortly after the fall of Rome; partly due to anti-slavery policies and campaigns of European monarchs, bishops and saints carried out between roughly the 7th and the 11th centuries). By the time the high Middle Ages rolled around, Europeans tended to regard slavery as essentially a thing of the past or of barbaric foreign lands.


Anyhow, I located a piece by British historian John Coffey that contains an interesting section on how early modern abolitionists viewed the issue of biblical slavery:

Whilst abolitionist ideas of brotherhood, liberty, benevolence and judgement were rooted in Scripture, the Bible also presented them with a problem, since both OT Israel and the NT church seemed to accept (or at least tolerate) the institution of slavery. As the former slave Cugoano admitted, the claim that the Old Testament sanctioned slavery was "the greatest bulwark of defence which the advocates and favourers of slavery can advance". Cugoano thought that this was "an inconsistent and diabolical use of the sacred writings". How ironic it was to see slave-traders ransacking the Pentateuch to legitimate slavery while blithely ignoring texts which made slave trading a capital crime: "He that stealeth a man and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death" (Exodus 21:16; also Deuteronomy 24:7).

Abolitionists usually admitted that the Law of Moses did sanction a form of slavery, and that this was legitimate in its time and place. But they distinguished between the perpetual enslavement of Gentiles, and the highly qualified servitude of fellow Jews. The enslavement of other Jews was to be dissolved at the year of Jubilee, and abolitionists often argued that it was "not, properly speaking, slavery" – which by definition involved permanent rights of ownership. The enslavement of the Gentiles, they maintained, was a unique punishment for exceptional wickedness, and formed no precedent for other nations. In any case, even these slaves were guaranteed better treatment than modern Africans. The Israelites, as one writer noted, were "exhorted to remember their own bondage in the land of Israel, and to treat their servants with the same lenity they wished to experience themselves" (see Deuteronomy 15:12–15; 24:14–22). OT law regulated slavery in a manner that was unique in the ancient world.

Abolitionists also maintained that "the laws of brotherly love are infinitely enlarged" by the Gospel, which proclaims "goodwill towards men without distinction". Since all men were now to be treated as brethren, the Mosaic ban on perpetual enslavement of fellow Israelites was universalised. Of course, pro-slavery Christians emphasised that neither Christ nor the apostles demanded the abolition of slavery. But abolitionists responded that slavery was tolerated as an evil by the early church, just like "the sanguinary despotism of Nero" and "the sports of gladiators", neither of which was expressly condemned in the New Testament. Despotism and slavery were contrary to the "spirit" of Christianity, whose "merciful operations", though "gradual and slow", eventually undermined both institutions. Abolition could not happen in the first centuries, when the church was too weak and slavery was integral to the Roman economy. As Equiano observed, if Paul [of Tarsus] "had absolutely declared the iniquity of slavery … he would have occasioned more tumult than reformation". Yet his letter to Philemon plainly showed "that he thought it derogatory to the honour of Christianity, that men who are bought with the inestimable price of Christ's blood, shall be esteemed slaves, and the private property of their fellow-men". Paul had pointed the way; it was for later Christians to complete the journey.

(footnotes omitted; full article available here)
 
Last edited:
There's been countless movie and CD tie-ins, so there are some things that are progressive.

The Sistene Chapel's an impressive tie-in, but is it interactive? Not so much.

Demand will bring us the interactive Bible, which is doable, but the next demand will be an interactive god. A much trickier proposition.
 
Back in the 1970s, KMart decided to test Alabama's prohibition of Sunday opening of stores. The sheriff sent his minions to the Huntsville store to arrest the manager. He wasn't there. They decided tht the people at the registers were in charge, so they started to arrest them; when they did, someone else went to the register and got arrested. By the time they were down to a shelf stocker, they allowed the doors to be locked and the lights turned out. In court the next morning the KMart attorney pointed out to the judge that the Alabama Constitution had a clause that stated that if a master required his slave to work on the Sabbath, no harm shall come to the slave.
Since the quickest way to get stupid laws changed in the deep south is to point out that "the DamYankees are laughing at us as dumb rednecks", the law was changed . We happily went out and shopped on Sunday, never realizing that we owed that freedom to the Bible!
 
I asked him that very question (in the Singer thread, I think). He ignored me.

We'll never know, I guess, when it comes to DOC.

But I often wonder the same thing about several very stubborn and extreme kind of woo who never give up posting here, no matter that their claims are debunked and shown to be flawed again, and again, and again and... I mean for us the whole thing often has some entertainment value if nothing else :) but one has to wonder what is in it for them :confused:
 
Pop-psyche mode :

Someone like DOC validates themselves when they post here. We may regard them as emerging from a swamp of superstition, ignorance and narcissim but they regard themselves as descending into our midst. When we laugh them off they feel even more validated. Despite our cleverness we can't see what is so obvious to them, even when they "explain" it.

Yes, I guess there must be something in it for them, or they would just be plain masochistic :confused:
 
Well, since Disciple of Christ has conceded in the Singer thread that he refrains from bestiality in part out of fear that bestiality might be addictive, and since he obviously considers atheists to be beastly...
 

Back
Top Bottom