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Most atheists do not know what science says about our origins

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DOC said:
Atheism needs abiogenesis and evolution to be true
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No

The sooner you accept that atheism is NOT a belief system, the sooner you will understand how (and, perhaps/hopefully why) your view is so woefully distorted

DOC said:
On the other hand Christianity doesn't need evolution or abiogenesis to be false. The Catholic stance on evolution will show this.
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Indeed

In order to survive and prosper, Christianity long ago perfected the art of skillfully twisting and adapting facts, myths, legends and outright fallacies to suit its own wooist agenda
 
Dancing David said:
That just shows a lack of imagination.

You could have a really advanced recursive spieces. Do advanced that like god they can violate TLOP and go back in time. Then they forget a sandwich on the beach (thank you Terry Prachett) and it seeds the planet that leads to them (the advanced beings).

So god is not needed in the least, you can posit impossible technology or magical powers that do not belong to a diety and still get the same result.
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Arrrgh, that is speices, so advanced!

And deity.
 
Posted by DOC

Atheism needs abiogenesis and evolution to be true.


six7s said:
No

The sooner you accept that atheism is NOT a belief system, the sooner you will understand how (and, perhaps/hopefully why) your view is so woefully distorted
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The "American Atheists" organization would strongly disagree with you. I counted them using the word believe or beliefs about 8 times in their definition of atheism.

From American Atheists website:

The following definition of Atheism was given to the Supreme Court of the United States in the case of Murray v. Curlett, 374 U.S. 203, 83 S. Ct. 1560, 10 L.Ed.2d (MD, 1963), to remove reverential Bible reading and oral unison recitation of the Lord's Prayer in the public schools.

“Your petitioners are Atheists and they define their beliefs as follows. An Atheist loves his fellow man instead of god. An Atheist believes that heaven is something for which we should work now – here on earth for all men together to enjoy.

An Atheist believes that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction, and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it and enjoy it.

An Atheist believes that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment.

He seeks to know himself and his fellow man rather than to know a god. An Atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An Atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He wants man to understand and love man.

He wants an ethical way of life. He believes that we cannot rely on a god or channel action into prayer nor hope for an end of troubles in a hereafter.

He believes that we are our brother's keepers; and are keepers
of our own lives; that we are responsible persons and the job is here and the time is now.”



http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/
 
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Stitch said:
Athesim requires one thing and one thing only, the lack of belief in a god or gods. That's it.
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If that was true they should of said that to the Supreme Court (see previous post) instead of giving a long detailed definition full of specific beliefs.


CapelDodger said:
Yup. Not much of a challenge, is it? And yet apparently beyond some people.
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Including the "American Atheists" organization.
 
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Hey DOC, does the beliefs of the Catholic Church define your Christian belief?

Quick poll for the atheists in this thread - are you a member of AA?

US - no.
 
UnrepentantSinner said:
Hey DOC, does the beliefs of the Catholic Church define your Christian belief?

Quick poll for the atheists in this thread - are you a member of AA?

US - no.
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Never even heard of AA.

I do not need to join an organisation to not believe something is there. FFS! there must thousands of thing I don't believe are there. Do I join a separate society for each one or do I simply say I am sceptical about a lot of stuff.

Some individuals like to combine and like to push their views. This is true for alien visitations, religions, steam trains and, even it would seem, atheism. However, I would argue that most atheists do not feel moved to take such a step. It is fun arguing the point on a wet winter's night on a computer with a theist or two but it I don't fret about it going about my daily business. If I consider my friends, work colleagues, family etc. I am pushed to think of any that have any active religious interest or even attend a church (any church).
 
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I've heard of them, but I'm not American, and there's no corresponding organisation in my country. If there were, I might consider it.
 
DOC doing what DOC does best, hypocritcal arguments.

Find one thing to prove his argument, claim it supports his case.
If one thing is presented to disprove his case, it's the exception and doesn't count.
 
arthwollipot said:
I've heard of them, but I'm not American, and there's no corresponding organisation in my country. If there were, I might consider it.
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Not to play into DOC's "gotcha" troll, but before I put you in the no category, would you join for political/social reasons or because you agreed with the tenets of "belief" listed in the AA page that DOC quoted?
 
linusrichard said:
linusrichard says: No.
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Fitter said:
No, nor the Canadian Atheists if such a beast exists.
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Current results:
U.S
US - no
linusrichard - no

Europe
Nogbad - no

Austraila (provisionally, since not a "member")
arthwollipot - no

Canada
Fitter - no

joobz said:
DOC doing what DOC does best, hypocritcal arguments.

Find one thing to prove his argument, claim it supports his case.
If one thing is presented to disprove his case, it's the exception and doesn't count.
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Perhaps you and AW could step up to the plate and join the poll. Even if you think there is some validity to AA's list of "beliefs" (great point about equivocation AW), and I think parts are very valid, since DOC is suggesting they are "tenets", unless you fall lock step behind them you don't apply to his troll.

I'll actually give DOC a smidgen of a break on this. DOC, do you accept the Nicean creed or do you have other beliefs that are outside of it like the Rapture, YECism or full Preterism? If so, why do you think that AA having a set of precepts from other atheists is any different some Christian sects is different from the Nicean basics that Jesus was born of a virgin, crucified and resurrected on the third day?
 
UnrepentantSinner said:
Perhaps you and AW could step up to the plate and join the poll. Even if you think there is some validity to AA's list of "beliefs" (great point about equivocation AW), and I think parts are very valid, since DOC is suggesting they are "tenets", unless you fall lock step behind them you don't apply to his troll.
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I am not a member of AA.
 
joobz said:
I am not a member of AA.
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Neither am I, but I listen to their podcasts.

The case was about why a non believers rights cannot be taken away by a believers rights... If the question is why does bible reading take away your rights... you need to define what it is your beliefs are and why it seems the government is "taking sides" by "respecting the establishment" of a particular brand of religion.

Atheism itself is a single position (lack of belief in gods)-- it can be a part systems of belief or philosophies such as humanism, secularism, naturalism, skepticism etc. and it is often seen as interchangeable with those terms--but the word, itself, just means those who do not subscribe to or believe in any sort of theism or god. Such people often do share similar political goals (separation of church and state) and views of the world (evidence is better than faith for understanding the objective nature of our world.)

Many atheists do not care what science says about our origins-- their lack of belief in a god may have nothing to do with our origins. But those who want to proffer alternatives to the evidence based scientific viewpoint, are invariably doing so for religious reasons. Their beliefs involve an alternate story based on faith that they are supposed to accepts as "truth" despite evidence to the contrary.
 
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