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Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

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I do think that people can stand behind the statement that the film was edited, and that important people who said it wasn't should have known better. Evidence of tampering was noticed years ago by some, but prominant pro-Patty folks are just not inclined to discuss it in public. They don't even want to discuss it a day after the visual evidence is presented.

I hate to say it, but I doubt that would change many peoples' minds over there even if they acknowledged it. I'd imagine that we'll hear a variation on the old "it's only what's on the film that matters" excuse. Careful observers will notice that this argument often gets dumped when there's a seeming problem with the figure in the film.
 
PGF edited because it was shot in more than one take? If we're to believe that then we're going to have to conclude that Bob Heronimous (sp) wasn't the one in the suit since he maintains that the film was done in one take. I seem to recall a version of the PGF where the subject entered the treeline and seemed to be walking up a slight incline as it disappeared at about the same distance as it does in the one we see now. However I could be wrong about this. I may have seen it on Youtube which means it's still out there. In any event its difficult to believe that hoaxers would have been that sloppy to have outright different endings and direction on the finished film.
 
For me it's not a question of more than one take. It's a question of the missing footage, and if it supports the Patty segment as being at the end of the reel ..

Patterson's reason for not getting more footage is he ran out of film ..

If he didn't run out of film, what's behind pretending he did ?

Did anyone find any more pea-pod toe, Bigfoot prints after Patterson stopped looking for them ?

Why did Bigfoot suddenly stop leaving those nice, sharp impressions, that looked a lot like Roger's own foot ?
 
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Ah, I remember this list; great stuff. I'd like to suggest that hallucinations and misidentifications be added to the list.
Yes, it seems I've left behid some pretty obvious candidates...

Regarding PGF being edited or not:
Even if the Patty scene was shot at a single take, the presence of a single inverted frame is "proof" of editing. So, if the presence of this feature is demonstrated at the "oldest" copies, the claim PGF was "not edited" and "untampered" should be laid to RIP.

Yes, the "unedited" and "untampered" claims may have originally meant that the sequence in the master was a single, uncut one. This however would mean that the copies were edited and still provide no answer to the question "what else was at the reel?"

Note that this would again be a case of distortion of information (intentional or not). This sort of thing is very common within bigfootery. Its part of the poor methodology commonly used by some of the enthusiasts. Its a poor, loose, imprecise use of language at best.

Once again: If bigfoot investigators want to be taken seriously, they must dump the bad data pieces, empty speculations and flawed reasonings in the garbage can and adopt a new sound methodological approach. Start from scratch, probably.
 
Haven't had a chance, will respond to this when I have a chance to watch the video.

Please do have a look at it and tell me what you think about it in terms of what adaptions the world's most northern-living non-human primate has.



Thank you for taking only the first section of my response, and completely ignoring how I finished my thought, to completely and totally distort what I was saying. That's how people on this forum win arguments I suppose? Classy.

Perhaps you only need a reminder though. What I said was I don't think Bigfoot (as we know him - and using that specific terminology) is in Britain, Australia, and Malaysia; I did however say that I believe there could be an unknown primate of some sort (call him Bigfoot if you'd like) in those countries. Thanks again for kindly ignoring that portion.

I certainly didn't distort what you said. What do you call it when people in the U.K., Australia, Malaysia report seeing the same type of thing as is what is claimed as being seen in North America? Please do keep in mind the sheer range of descriptions in bigfoot sightings in North America.



Having now established that the first problem was merely your own inaptitude for reading comprehension, I stated that Bigfoot is migratory. Assuming an animal has lived in a freezing environment for millennia (North-Eastern Asia), came over the land-bridge, continued living in cold conditions in Northern U.S. and Canada, and eventually some migrated further south, any rational thinker would reason that they would still have hairy breasts.

1) Thunderdome. What evidence do you have that bigfoot is migratory?

2) Patty's boobs. Watch the video I posted already. Hirsute cans are just one of Patty's ridiculous boobs problems. Don't ignore the completely wrong placement, shape, and rigidity.

Again Bigfoot is migratory. 'Speaking of hairy breasts', I do not know how many reports from down South mention them (either way), so you cannot make a claim one way or another. I am justifying the hairy breasts of Patty, not a separate reference. To be fair, neither you nor I have seen clear pictures of the breasts from a female Bigfoot down South, so your argument is unsound.

I asked you about what percentage of bigfoot reports mention breasts. In general.



You're right, we are starting to see a pattern here. Namely, your inability to see past your own beliefs, and to grasp and critically think through someone else's ideas.

Please tell me what beliefs of mine I'm unable to see past.

I think the majority of Bigfoot are in remote pockets of Canada because that is where they have lived since crossing over.

Thunderdome. You know, it's pretty inevitable with bigfoot enthusiasts to constantly have these opinion-as-fact statements.

No, that's not where the majority of Bigfoot reports are coming from, and maybe you just led into a good point. If there were more contact with those remote areas, then perhaps we'd see and read about more Bigfoot sightings. But then again, that would make the place not-so-remote wouldn't it?

You don't quite seem to have a grasp on the phenomenom. You are one of those bigfoot enthusiasts who clings on to the 'remote' fallacy. Bigfoot is reported from Alaska to Iowa to Texas to New York to Florida. We have a member here that claims they pick through his trash and comes into his home and uses a screwdriver to break into his cans of beans. We have a member here that claimed to see one from his balcony in Georgia and another white one in front of a residence on a highway in an unwooded area in Mississippi.

"What's wrong with Florida?" - Nothing is wrong with Florida, relevance? I already discussed migration and the potential for different varieties of unknown primates (you can call all unknown primates Bigfoot if you'd like - including those in Malaysia, Australia, etc). Again you're getting into a terminology issue where I think our minds diverge. When you say Bigfoot you mean all unknown primates world-wide. When I say Bigfoot I don't mean that.

Based on an absence of reliable evidence I think the best terminology for when people in the U.K., Australia, North America and many other places report seeing giant 8ft bipedal primates is 'social construct'

"What about all those reports?" - What about them?
So you don't have a problem with the complete lack of any reliable evidence whatsoever for giant 8ft bipedal primate reported all across North America?

"What about creekfreak?" - What about it?

That would be the handle of the guy who claims bigfoot picks through his trash and raid his canned beans. Don't believe him? If not, I'd love to hear why. On top of that I'd love to hear one report that you do believe.

"How do you know that bigfoots have specifically adapted to cold climates?" - I don't know 100%, nor do you, but if you're asking why i BELIEVE this, then please refer back to where I discussed them living in the cold, mountanous North-Eastern Asia for thousands of years and migrating over just like the humans and other animals did.

But you do know that bigfoots are migratory and live in remote pockets of Canada. I mean, you did state that as fact.
 
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Once again: If bigfoot investigators want to be taken seriously, they must dump the bad data pieces, empty speculations and flawed reasonings in the garbage can and adopt a new sound methodological approach. Start from scratch, probably.
Sucks to be left with nothing. :D
 
On gorilla costume costs:
popmechanics.jpg

Check the part where the cost is shown, at the end of the text. Note also that this costume is quite likely much more sophisticated than a Patty costume would be. In my personal opinion, Munn's estimate, even with inflation taken in to account, would be OK only if the filming and its posterior analysis would much much more than the suit itself.

Well, its was more than I wanted to talk about his reasonings for now. I will wait him to finish exposing -or advancing a bit more- his points.
 
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K., well, maybe yes. I guess "nothing" can be an overestimation, but yes, its a possibility, indeed. Yes, when it comes to reliable evidence, it will be just as it is nowadays- "nothing".

Rigorous standards should be set and the evidence filtered according to them. No emotional attchment to the data, not even to iconic stuff such as the PGF or Roers's sighting. A golden rule should be: At the slightest hint of a fishy smell, the evidence goes to quarentine.

In some cases, setting standards is not an easy task. For example, when it comes to sighting reports, stabilishing reliability criteria is hard.
Where to draw the line?

One witness reports a white bigfoot, another a black one, one looks like a werewolf, another like an ape-man, one has glowing red eyes.

One was seen at someone's backyard at a big city in the Eastern coast, another deep within the PNW woods, that one wass in the desert shrub, another one in Florida swamps.

One is a lumbering beast, the other a gracile agile and fast animal, that one seems to glide through the forest; while one wrecks the woods while it walks, the other seems to pass through trees.

One seems friendly and curious while the other is a maddened beast, one eats berries while the other rips a deer apart and eats its liver...

One makes growling sounds, another speaks and that one has a cry louder than a jet engine. Hey, we even have a telepathic one!

One witness is a teenager, another a hunter, the other one a hiker, that one is an urbanoid. One had multiple encounters, another one only a fleeting glimpse, while that one saw the beast for tens of minutes.

A witness says he can't lie because of his religion, the other says he can't be mistaken becasue of his training, that one remembers it as if it were yesterday, and this says "Are you calling me a liar or a lunatic?"

Where and how to draw the line? I asked this many times before. Can't remember receiving an answer.

There's a chance that only a handfull of sightings that will happen after the criteria are stabilished will make it.
 
Award for most Ironic statement ever-

Those critical of Dfoot on BFF said:
How dare someone make claims without PROOF?!


PS - Kitakaze, why not dustoff the ol' Footerbot? I miss him.
 
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Award for most Ironic statement ever-

Yep. In fact, my aborted comment from yesterday sounded much like what I wrote today, i.e. "Um, it ain't up to us to convince you, and so far you haven't convinced many, so guess who has to do the real work here?"

I'm sure there is much gnashing of teeth from Paul. So be it.

;)

Avindair
 
Stable

That's the word I was looking for!!!
:catfight:

Huh.... It really took 2 posts to get that out - did it? And you call me unstable. :rolleyes:

I just love this board.

HI CORREA NETO!!! Long time no chat. I hope you are well (being serious not a smart a*ss).

I had to drop by and say hi - after I noticed Drapier signed up to take me to task. Drapier, its like old times. Avindair its nice to see you spreading the love all the way over to the BFF again. Did I miss anyone? The only person missing is William Parcher

I wish you all a happy new year - and dont break your computers over the recent events.

Ok, Im out - take care all!!! Big hugs.
 
Yep. In fact, my aborted comment from yesterday sounded much like what I wrote today, i.e. "Um, it ain't up to us to convince you, and so far you haven't convinced many, so guess who has to do the real work here?"

I'm sure there is much gnashing of teeth from Paul. So be it.

;)

Avindair


The irony of my Scientology analogy continues to be missed over there. I may have to log onto BFF to explain it yet again...

It goes like this: L.Ron developed a method for dealing with any SP (suppressive person) who might get in the way of KSW (keeping scientology working). For example, if debating someone who has info regarding who owns the trademarks to Scientology or any other facts, simply put the person on the defensive by bringing up any dirt from his past or spreading false rumors and bringing that up. Make Scientology the victim and focus the time allowed on the person instead of any valid argument he might have. Time will elapse and the info the person had is lost. Follow up with "dead agenting" - the smearing of the person while failing to address his concerns - and mission is accomplished.

The problem Paul has is that others have removed images in the past without a word being said. I told him in email that I removed images to save space as this is what is required here at JREF. I'd never heard of any rules regarding removing images from the previous year. So I've tried to repost as many as I can so anyone can have them who wants them.

Paul found some bogus info on the net about me and posted it. That's typical Scientology crap. I'm hoping he'll step back a moment and realize that I've got a point about people getting emotional regarding Gimlin and the PG film (just as it is with favorite actors or tv shows). They cannot see or listen to anything that doesn't simply go along with their vision of what is real.

It's like John Green never noticing that his "original film copy" has been flipped at the start. He's watched it frame by frame for years and yet he can't see that? Why not? I think he can't allow himself to anymore than he can deal with the idea that Wallace and his pals fooled him years ago.

This is what has been going on year after year. Even if I find photos of someone testing the Patty suit it won't matter. It will only end in name calling and denials. :boggled:
 
Bill Munns said:
I see in the film three "lines" of fur shadow marks (1. around the waist, 2. the line between pelvic area and thigh, and 3. a third across the mid thigh itself) any of which can be argued as a "seam" of a suit, but no professional suitmaker would ever put obvious seams in all three places in one suit. To argue all are seams makes no sense.

What about an unemployed Yakima rodeo cowboy? Might a guy like Patterson do things that a professional suitmaker wouldn't?

But where is Munns going with this? Patty wasn't made by any pro, so it's probably a real Bigfoot? The seams aren't really seams, so it's probably a real Bigfoot? If it is a suit then it was made by a hapless seamster - and how can that be true? If it was a hoax, then the hoaxer would be sure to get everything perfect to prevent detection. Everything comes up Bigfoot no matter where you look. No wonder they believe.
 
Did I miss anyone? The only person missing is William Parcher.

I can only imagine one way for that to happen. Jeff Meldrum shows up in Thunderdome, and I then run scared to join BFF to escape his mountain of evidence and magnificent splendor.
 
Dfoot, I'm enjoying your postings on BFF and watching the mosh pit in progress. I have never before seen some of the stills that you posted today, nor the source of those stills. I've posted your 'stack of still frames' below. I'm again intrigued by the identification of riders and their horses.

Dfoot said:
Green says "This is the start of the roll that they eventually got the pictures of the creature on. They're just riding their horses up the bed of Bluff Creek."

At this point we're watching what Green is showing. It's the footage of Roger riding up to a stop at Bluff Creek that is actually FLIPPED and only a portion of the shot used by Ron Olson in his films.

We then see a few frames of trees edited into the footage and next comes the shot of Gimlin leading the pack horse down the road to Bluff Creek and the pan over to the tent pole trees. Green says, "There's Bob with the pack horse."

How do you know who is Patterson and who is Gimlin? I believe we have established that the guy riding to the left in the 3rd frame is Roger 'riding up to a stop'. These stills are not very clear, but the guy and the horse in the 1st frame looks a lot like the guy in the 5th frame. Is that Gimlin?

index.php
 
Cliff Crook was excommunicated from the bigfoot community for taking a blowup of patty and saying there was a suit buckle on the stomach of patty. MK Davis gets high fives for finding all sorts of things in the film that he says support the idea patty is a real animal. MK knows he can never turn back from his position since he will incur the wrath of bigfooters and a lawsuit from Mrs Patterson. MK has stared at the film for ten years and never reported the flipped scene at the beginning.
 
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