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Why is homosexuality wrong?

I would not have the presumption to speak for them, nor even to make the assumption that the concept of "happiness" applies to the great majority of animals, nor to make my guess a basis for opinions regarding obedience to God. It would be nonsense.

To me, to obey God means to follow His philosophy. If you know a philosophy and decide to live it then following God or His philosophy becomes an act of concious volition. You want the same thing that God wants in that case and following is natural. There is no need to apply force and thinking of doing something other than what the philosophy wants only happens if there is something wrong or missunderstood about the philosophy.

Does this make sense.

Regards
DL
 
To me, to obey God means to follow His philosophy. If you know a philosophy and decide to live it then following God or His philosophy becomes an act of concious volition. You want the same thing that God wants in that case and following is natural. There is no need to apply force and thinking of doing something other than what the philosophy wants only happens if there is something wrong or missunderstood about the philosophy.

Does this make sense.

Regards
DL

I would say that that statement more or less makes sense, whether or not one actually believes either that God exists, or that God has a philosophy, or that his philosophy is knowable, or whether or not one agrees with it. I would argue that the last sentence is not quite all there yet, since if you acknowledge that following God's philosophy is an act of conscious volition, then it does not follow that even thinking of alternatives would not occur, unless you consider the act of volition to be a "one-shot" deal, after which conscious volition is abandoned or lost. To make a meaningful choice entails a certain level of both thought and consideration of alternatives. Most Christians, I think, would contend that morality consists in the ongoing process of choosing among alternatives, and rejecting sin, rather than simply ignoring it.

Anyway quibble is with your suggestion that animals are happiest when they are calm and submissive, and that the presumed feelings of animals, and more particularly the presumed feelings of domestic dogs, have any relevance at all to questions of how or whether humans should believe in a god or obey the god they do believe in. That would be nonsense!
 
You have not observed much, then, have you? A dog is a domestic animal, bred to be contented under conditions that do not exist for the vast majority of animals on earth. What can you say of the mental state of a butterfly or a tuna fish?

I should add that your original notion of what constitutes "happiness" rests on an assumption of what happiness is, which is at least bit tautological anyway. Who is to say what "happiness" means to an animal? If you assume that happiness is calm, then you have already gone halfway to insuring your own conclusion. I could as easily argue that a dog is happier having an orgasm than being petted by his master, or a hawk happier tearing the guts out of a mouse. The very idea of happiness is a human one.

I recently watched a program about a man who was introducing two zoo tigers that he had raised to a park in Africa, of all places. These cats seemed to view him as a family member. They would play and socialize with him regularly. After they had learned to make kills he made a point of periodically going over and taking some meat from them, just to remind them that he was dominant, lest they figure out the extent of their power and abandon him at best, or maim or kill him at worst.
 
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I KNOW I should just leave this alone, since it's so incredibly off topic, but I just can't let it go...


Do these two statements come close to seeming to mean the same thing?

No. I cannot speak to animals. I can just interpret what I observe.
I watch the Dog whisperer.He is good at interpreting animal mental states.
I bow to his wisdom.

Regards
DL

This is not quite what I said.
I know how to interpret whether a dog is calm versus attack mode.
I said I could not talk to them.
Some are better at interpreting the smaller subtleties than I.

Regards
DL

However, to nudge myself back in the right direction, why does it seem that the only reason homosexuality is wrong is because God said so. My kids don't even accept that as a reason when I tell them they have to, or can't, do something, when I tell them "because I said so".
 
It is not wrong.

It's wrong because it hurts

How would you know?
I don't imagine it would hurt. I mean stool can be pretty hefty, and rarely does it hurt whilst leaving the rectum. The average penis is about 6-7 inches in length, poo can reach that size.

It would probably feel like extricating a firm piece of stool. In reverse. :covereyes
 
Is this still technically a discussion about something or is this thread now keeping in line with this particular subforum's oeuvre of addleheaded muttering?
 
i just had to pick this up....

No. I cannot speak to animals. I can just interpret what I observe.

And that is what the "dog whisperer" does.
Also dogs in particular do react to the spoken word, they just don't speak your verbal language back to you and do not have much if any of the language structure based on the human concept of it.
. so you could speak to animals rather than cannot, you can say what you like to them, conversing however, is language wise pretty much one way in the verbal sense of the word.

To get some sort of reaction to what you say is helped of course by both of you being interested in each other, but its not so essential on the more basic "all dogs do this because of that" type of training.

In fact all dog basic training starts (or ought to) out by just being reactionary on a primitive level to the dogs actions within its basic instinctual drive system.

I watch the Dog whisperer. He is good at interpreting animal mental states.
I bow to his wisdom.

Regards
DL

Actually from my own experience as a dog and horse handler i'd probably consider the interpretation to be just as valid by basing it on the animals body language, which is actually what the DW does.

No consideration of its mental state strictly speaking is involved or needed.

We as humans translate what we see the animal do in repeatable situations and work out whether it's hungry or whatever.
He observes the dogs body and repeatedly instructs the owners to watch the dogs body for those initial subtle clues as to what the dog is about to do. (read: react to) not the "mental state" of the dog

also in the broadcasts i've seen he seems to pretty much only use only one method in practice, and rightly applies it to the many but limited situations he knows it will work for.

to some (maybe not you) it might look like lots of different things he's doing, but , look again. ....

To be even more pedantic (?) he never whispers to anything to great effect on the show, never mind to the dog.

I got bored with it real quick, after a few shows.


although probably wildly off topic here, i'd rather chat about this than respond to Ali who i'm a bit bored with now.

holding on tight to the keyboard while mods move the thread.......:)
 
I KNOW I should just leave this alone, since it's so incredibly off topic, but I just can't let it go...


Do these two statements come close to seeming to mean the same thing?





However, to nudge myself back in the right direction, why does it seem that the only reason homosexuality is wrong is because God said so. My kids don't even accept that as a reason when I tell them they have to, or can't, do something, when I tell them "because I said so".

well if they do that to you, god hasn't a chance has he?:D
 
I KNOW I should just leave this alone, since it's so incredibly off topic, but I just can't let it go...


Do these two statements come close to seeming to mean the same thing?


I will be interested in the replies on this.

However, to nudge myself back in the right direction, why does it seem that the only reason homosexuality is wrong is because God said so. My kids don't even accept that as a reason when I tell them they have to, or can't, do something, when I tell them "because I said so".

Even God should be able to give a logical explanation for denegrating or discriminating against this social group.
Just like a father should be able to explain why he wants his children to do whatever he is requesting.

Regards
DL
 
Even God should be able to give a logical explanation for denegrating or discriminating against this social group.

he doesn't appear to be available for comment, unfortunately.........ever

Just like a father should be able to explain why he wants his children to do whatever he is requesting.

Regards
DL

Or mother.
And if there is time to do so at some point.
 
Even God should be able to give a logical explanation for denegrating or discriminating against this social group.
Just like a father should be able to explain why he wants his children to do whatever he is requesting.

Regards
DL

"Should?" Tsk tsk. Nobody can tell God what he should or shouldn't do. All we can say is he ain't done it yet.
 
"Should?" Tsk tsk. Nobody can tell God what he should or shouldn't do. All we can say is he ain't done it yet.

I don’t think He ever will.
I see man as having a political nature and a spiritual nature.
Politically, dealing with a physical world there may be good reasons to not lose genetic lines.
From the spiritual side, it should not care for saving genetic lines and should be mute on the subject.
I see no leg for God to stand on.

Regards
DL
 
The beat goes on and I'm so wrong.
The beat goes on and I'm so wrong.
The beat goes on and I'm so wrong.
 

However, to nudge myself back in the right direction, why does it seem that the only reason homosexuality is wrong is because God said so. My kids don't even accept that as a reason when I tell them they have to, or can't, do something, when I tell them "because I said so".


Anyone who wants to become wise will need to get close to God, and to get close you'll have to cleanse yourself.
There’s no other way.

:):):)
 

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